Ashley Westwood

[Phumfeinz]

Grealish isn't playing a crucial position nor is he symptomatic of our slow and painful demise over the last few years. He's also very young whereas Westwood should be entering his prime shortly so no, Grealish doesn't nor should he be criticised as much. When I think of the demise of Villa several figures come to mind: Lerner, Agbonlahor, Westwood, Guzan.

I'll leave it here because my thoughts on Westwood are well known and like you said we're just rehashing posts. He is utter shite though. 

[StefanAVFC]

This post

1 hour ago, Phumfeinz said:

Grealish isn't playing a crucial position nor is he symptomatic of our slow and painful demise over the last few years.

I think of the demise of Villa several figures come to mind: Lerner, Agbonlahor, Westwood, Guzan.

I'll leave it here because my thoughts on Westwood are well known and like you said we're just rehashing posts. He is utter shite though. 

illustrates this point

2 hours ago, LancsVillan said:

Westwood like others are now 'poisoned' with fans and if he completely bossed a game, scored, created a couple but gave the ball away once it would be the latter that would be picked up.  

perfectly.

You view him as such a big reason that we declined as a club, that you aren't willing to give him a fair chance regardless of what he does, or how he plays.

[TRO]

2 hours ago, LancsVillan said:

Westwood like others are now 'poisoned' with fans and if he completely bossed a game, scored, created a couple but gave the ball away once it would be the latter that would be picked up. 

He looked decent with Tshibola along side him at Sheff Weds, then again at VP v Rotherham and Huddersfield. Then it was back to GG who leaves him too much to do.

This season is really make or break for him at Villa, if he stays he has proper experience competition and a young kid proven at this level.  

i disagree with your first paragraph entirely.

There are no poisoned players.....There are players who have just not performed for us and to say what you have in that first paragraph is a sleight on the ability of some of our fans to appraise a player.

It is common knowledge we all see a game in a very personal way, which is similar to what other fans think and dissimilar to others.....nature of the beast.

If he did those things, we wouldn't be writing about him, but for me ,generally,he doesn't.

I have seen enough Aston Villa sides in my time to know when a player has an ability to punch their own weight physically and when they struggle with close contact.He is lightweight and much better with the ball than without it.

In my view, he does struggle with that aspect and loses many duels ....his passing may be good, but we are talking about his inability to boss a game.

If in fact, if my comments were amiss, you may not have written the third paragraph.

Edited August 24, 2016 by TRO

[hippo]

I wouldn't willingly sell Westwood or Bacuna, Nether are going to go down in the hall of fame of greatest ever villa players. But were going to be playing, Saturday, Tuesday, week in \ week out - once that gets going RDM will rarely have all his players fit. Westwood always gives his best - sure we'd like better - but I would keep him in and around the first team.

[TRO]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

I wouldn't willingly sell Westwood or Bacuna, Nether are going to go down in the hall of fame of greatest ever villa players. But were going to be playing, Saturday, Tuesday, week in \ week out - once that gets going RDM will rarely have all his players fit. Westwood always gives his best - sure we'd like better - but I would keep him in and around the first team.

i think thats fair comment....and in our first season of attempting to turn this around, it may be best to keep him.....He is a good professional and has good other points....I just see his flaws too, which i think puts us under pressure.I see those same flaws consistently.

but remember, you do not improve or move forward unless you eliminate the flaws that land you in the mire. it is no good any of us getting sentimental with players who got us relegated by an unprecedented low points tally.

[Phumfeinz]

12 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said:

This post

illustrates this point

perfectly.

You view him as such a big reason that we declined as a club, that you aren't willing to give him a fair chance regardless of what he does, or how he plays.

 

You're right, I'm not willing to give him a fair chance because he's done precisely **** all for us for 4 years. How many chances do players need? We keep giving shite players chance after chance at this club and it's part of the reason we're where we are. I've had enough and I want rid of all the deadwood we've accumulated over the past few years because to me they're a symbol of no passion, no skill, and bad times.

[TRO]

i do recognise this is a player that divides the fan base.

[DCJonah]

I think Westwood is a big indication of our decline and I think he's been very poor for us on the whole. He's not improved as a player and he's done nothing to make us better. 

But he's been good this season and clearly having him in the squad this season will make us a better championship team and offers strength in depth in a key area of the field. 

He should not be first choice once tshibola and Jedinak are up to speed and if we do achieve promotion I would like him to be moved on. But he's got a part to play in trying to get us back in the league. 

Unlike Gil and Gana he hasn't been a piece of shit and forced a move. Unlike others last year his attitude and behaviour has not been disgraceful. This makes me feel a bit guilty for the stick I've given him in the past, as his only fault is that he hasn't been good enough at times. I hope he can leave the club having left a positive impact on us and helped us achieve the goal set for us this year. 

[hippo]

1 minute ago, TRO said:

i think thats fair comment....and in our first season of attempting to turn this around, it may be best to keep him.....He is a good professional and has good other points....I just see his flaws too, which i think puts us under pressure.I see those same flaws consistently.

but remember, you do not improve or move forward unless you eliminate the flaws that land you in the mire. it is no good any of us getting sentimental with players who got us relegated by an unprecedented low points tally.

Agreed - but selling Westwood for what £3-4m ? in the last few days on the window doesn't progress US IMO. Agree there can be no sentiment if we buy players that force westwood out to such extent he never plays than thats the time to shift him on. Delighted with the window's dealings so far - but I still think we are light on numbers.

[bobzy]

1 minute ago, Phumfeinz said:

You're right, I'm not willing to give him a fair chance because he's done precisely **** all for us for 4 years. How many chances do players need? We keep giving shite players chance after chance at this club and it's part of the reason we're where we are. I've had enough and I want rid of all the deadwood we've accumulated over the past few years because to me they're a symbol of no passion, no skill, and bad times.

He seems to be a scapegoat for a poor period in Villa's history - which is fine as a symbolic gesture - whilst not being the problem.

So, "chances" to do what?  What are you/were you expecting from Ashley Westwood?  

[TRO]

1 minute ago, hippo said:

Agreed - but selling Westwood for what £3-4m ? in the last few days on the window doesn't progress US IMO. Agree there can be no sentiment if we buy players that force westwood out to such extent he never plays than thats the time to shift him on. Delighted with the window's dealings so far - but I still think we are light on numbers.

I see your point and on paper i too am impressed with the buys, mainly on going for solidity and character

[TRO]

6 minutes ago, bobzy said:

He seems to be a scapegoat for a poor period in Villa's history - which is fine as a symbolic gesture - whilst not being the problem.

So, "chances" to do what?  What are you/were you expecting from Ashley Westwood?  

I don't think its fair to say he has ever been a scapegoat. He has been properly appraised by fans who have  picked up on a major weakness in his game.

He plays in a central Midfield role ......If you have no physical presence in your game when playing that role, all your other attributes will come under pressure and they will be difficult to apply, thats what happens to Ashley.

Ashley Westwood is liable to have a good game when the physical presence from the opposition is absent.....When its present,he usually comes out second best. the game then goes past him and the defence go in to panic mode.

When we see Jedinak settle in.....you will see, what is being said.

Its been a problem for many years, happily it may well be over.

 

 

 

 

[bobzy]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

I don't think its fair to say he has ever been a scapegoat. He has been properly appraised by fans who have  picked up on a major weakness in his game.

He plays in a central Midfield role ......If you have no physical presence in your game when playing that role, all your other attributes will come under pressure and they will be difficult to apply, thats what happens to Ashley.

Ashley Westwood is liable to have a good game when the physical presence from the opposition is absent.....When its present,he usually comes out second best. the game then goes past him and the defence go in to panic mode.

When we see Jedinak settle in.....you will see, what is being said.

But this is the lazy stereotype.  The scapegoating.  "He can't hack it".

This season, Westwood averages more tackles per game than anyone other than Cissokho and Tshibola (considerably less minutes, too), more blocks per game than anyone in our squad and more interceptions per game than our other central midfielders.  Further, he's doing this whilst completing the most passes in our squad with the best passing accuracy of anyone in our squad (bar Traore who is at 100% having completed 1 pass ).

Maybe Jedinak will come in and do all of this and more, but in terms of breaking up play and retaining possession (or, as some people call it, "doing nothing") Westwood is ahead of anyone else we have.

[fightoffyour]

 

 

[TRO]

13 minutes ago, bobzy said:

Westwood is ahead of anyone else we have.

Says it all really.....we have just left behind a season of anus horribillis.

but do you know what Bobzy......If you want to quote stats as opposed to watching a game, fine.

I am wrong and he is the dominating Midfielder that breaks up the play and powers his way through the opposition causes havoc and scores his unfair share of goals......our very own Duncan Edwards.

Oh perhaps you could check out his stats.....If anyone ever bothered to record them.

[bobzy]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

Says it all really.....we have just left behind a season of anus horribillis.

but do you know what Bobzy......If you want to quote stats as opposed to watching a game, fine.

I am wrong and he is the dominating Midfielder that breaks up the play and powers his way through the opposition causes havoc and scores his unfair share of goals......our very own Duncan Edwards.

Oh perhaps you could check out his stats.....If anyone ever bothered to record them.

I don't get it - do statistics not count now or something?  We don't judge strikers based on their ability to score goals?  Our defences on an ability to keep clean sheets?  Our creative players on assists?

Or do they only not count when they go against the argument that Westwood "has no physical presence"?

The fact you've needed to resort to a sarcastic "dominating midfielder... powers his way through... causes havoc... scores unfair share of goals" comment (something which nobody has said) says it all.

He's somewhere in between "shite" and "quality".  This middle ground exists.

Edited August 24, 2016 by bobzy

[StefanAVFC]

6 minutes ago, TRO said:

 

but do you know what Bobzy......If you want to quote stats as opposed to watching a game, fine.

I'm sorry but this is absurd. It's almost satirical at this point. 

"Westwood does nothing"

posts meaningful and relevant stats how show how he clearly doesn't do 'nothing'

"well stats mean nothing"

[srsmithusa]

2 minutes ago, bobzy said:

I don't get it - do statistics not count now or something?  We don't judge strikers based on their ability to score goals?  Our defences on an ability to keep clean sheets?  Our creative players on assists?

Or do they only not count when they go against the argument that Westwood "has no physical presence"?

The fact you've needed to resort to a sarcastic "dominating midfielder... powers his way through... causes havoc... scores unfair share of goals" comment (something which nobody has said) says it all.

He's somewhere in between "shite" and "quality".  This middle ground exists.

A bold assertion!!!    (Also, its a bit annoying that the forum needs to be reminded of it from time to time.)

[mwj]

1 hour ago, StefanAVFC said:

This post

illustrates this point

perfectly.

You view him as such a big reason that we declined as a club, that you aren't willing to give him a fair chance regardless of what he does, or how he plays.

The Sheff Wed game was the epitomy of Westwood's time at Villa.

I didn't even notice he was playing until he had that chance fall to him in the 55th minute. He wasn't running the game, wasn't cycling play, wasn't playing forward balls, wasn't tackling, wasn't anything.

On his good day he does move the ball around a bit, back and forth across the field and moves the opposition around a bit, but honestly the lack of ANY other part of his game (tackling, forward balls, creating chances, getting in the box to score goals etc) makes him virtually useless as a central midfielder. He is not a Paul Scholes, he is not an Andrea Pirlo, or any of the other "deep lying playmaker" tags you want to give him. 

[StefanAVFC]

Cool I'll use one game as an example too. 

He was excellent against Rotherham. 

As bobzy said, there's a middle ground. 

Literally nobody is saying he's amazing or incredible but others are saying he's shit. He's a very good player for this level as showed in his appearances so far. He's faded in games due to a lack of rotation and his games with tish have showed that playing with Gardner has made his life difficult too. 

Whether he'll be a decent PL player again, I have no idea. But this is certainly his level for now.