Irreverentad's Relationship Advice Thread

[Shomin Geki]

I'm afraid I'm little more than an occasional poster (but eternal lurker) that makes the odd silly joke and likes doing wordy post-match summaries, but your story really struck a chord with me and I felt obliged to respond.  Now, my situation was a little different, but the feelings you're expressing chime very much with my experience, so I thought I would share.  As a poster above me said this will be a gradual process.  One that will likely have a real resonance for the remainder of your life, particularly if you, like myself, are very much pro-monogamy and value your relationship as one of the most significant of things.  It was partially such a strongly-held belief in not only the joy but the responsibility and pride in cultivating a profound, shared intimacy, a beautiful space together, that caused me so much pain when it was broken.  I felt as if the gravity in my world had been altered.  It was genuinely existentially horrifying.  But good can come from an irreversibly horrible situation.  I hope my sharing the time I've spent subsequently dealing with the fallout of what happened six years ago can be of some use.  One of the first things I did after I was cheated on was to voraciously consume other's stories and thoughts.  It offered some consolation.  So...

We were in a six year long relationship.  Engaged.  Living together.  Soulmates, I thought.  We didn't have children, but there was an understanding we were creating a life together.  And we both wanted children.  I think one of the difficult things in a relationship is in the conflict between one's own conception of a relationship, its significance and its place in your life, and the difference in the shared space that you create together.  Of course your partner has the same dilemma.  You may, for example, enjoy the familiarity of being with someone, or you might get a sense of pure masculine pride, or it might be an arrangement that gives you a certain level of security (social, economic, psychological etc.), or you might relish the energy you get from the other person.  But the other person will very likely conceive what the relationship means to them differently.  It's obviously good to be as appreciative as possible about your partner's conception of the relationship.  Of course, love is wild, and you may not even have the most complete grasp of what that even is to you.  Anyway, I come from a significantly messed-up family (drugs, violence, tragedy etc), one of generational destructiveness, and seeing this pattern rattle on and repeat its grim cycle, I was determined to break it.  So I decided the only healthy option was to 'break' from my family and choose a different path.  This path included my partner.  Who was very aware of this dynamic, this plan, and how important it was to me.  To my happiness and stability.

We saved a significant sum so we could move to London and start a film production company.  We both had experience in that field, and were accepting plenty of paid gigs, as well as having all the gear, so effectively it was simply 'professionalising' what we already did.  We had a business plan, contacts, capital etc.  My partner was managing a local cinema and one night, after the Christmas party (very close to the 25th), she didn't come home.  I was naturally concerned and called her several times.  She replied that she had drank too much and had stayed at a friend's place.  When she returned in the morning she was a mess and told me that we had to 'finalise' our plan immediately and move right now.  I gave her a little pep talk and went to work.  But something didn't seem right.  She confessed later that day, in what I later discovered wasn't an entirely truthful account, that she had gotten very drunk and had had sex with a much younger employee.  I later discovered messages between the two over the course of the past month.  They'd basically planned it.  Now, this could have been an exciting fantasy that toppled into something more, or, as she put it, 'she was flattered by the attention'.  And anyway it was just the one transgression.  Perhaps she felt pressurised by our situation?  Maybe there was trepidation about our new life?  Maybe she kinda wanted a way out?  Either way she had completely **** over not only our plans, but how significant this 'new life' was for me.  It's peculiar, the moment she told me the whole horrible truth of how destructive this would be dawned on me immediately.  I was screwed.  And I felt very much what you've described.  A disgust, a profound sadness, that something deeply important to me had been terminally ruptured.  And sadly it was.

I did the normal things.  Asked questions.  Got mad.  Made threats.  Tried to confront the dude (this I WOULD NOT entertain.  It's honestly not worth it.)  She left our house for two weeks over Christmas and the New Year.  I immediately broke up with her, almost totally out of an ethical obligation.  A line had been crossed.  But by that point our fates, and my feelings for us, were so entwined I found it impossible to let go.  Why should, and I'm sorry to be crude about this, somebody briefly putting their dick in my girl jettison everything I'd worked so diligently for?  Everything we'd cultivated.  So I took her back.  We tried to rebuild.  There was possessive, 'reclaiming her' sex.  I really tried hard to understand.  And I wasted nine months on this before she ended up leaving me.  At which point I almost immediately moved to London.  It was only over the course of the next few years (some of which I spent travelling) that I got a fuller grasp on the whole situation.  And for that, and it has benefitted me enormously, this couldn't have happened if we had stayed together.  I needed a separation to make sense of it all and put myself on the right path.  Even if I didn't want that at the time.  The big question for you, I think, is: Do you want her to be a part of your rebuilding of yourself?  Can you do that?  I'm afraid I'm out of my element when it comes to the issue of being a parent, but certainly giving things time and being incredibly, almost masochistically, patient are things I can absolutely attest to.  You want to understand this.  And you want to make the right choices.  Obviously doing this now is incredibly difficult.  But you'll thank yourself later.

Now the crux of things in my relationship was, to put it slightly pathetically, that nothing, on her part, was learned from her transgression.  She failed to understand the deep pain she had caused me.  Why the betrayal had shattered me so much.  How it felt like she had, with a deep knowledge of my family troubles, shown a profound recklessness towards my attempts to overcome them.  Crucially, I began to realise, she didn't understand how violated I had felt.  And that I felt violated anew when she wouldn't attempt to understand my conception of the relationship.  Without that there was nothing.  No real union.  That this would simply end up repeating itself.  This was my first serious relationship, and absolutely there were mistakes and stupidities on my part.  The overriding factor here was if she could appreciate the person that I had become because of this betrayal.  The state I had entered.  Did she want to understand?  To engage?  That is what I needed and she wasn't prepared to give it.  It was doomed.  I hope your relationship is healthier than mine was, but I think it's important to consider, as an ongoing concern, how exactly things are going to become normal for you again.  Can you do that with her?  Time will obviously tell, and with care, attention and sensitivity, I hope you attain a greater sense of clarity.  But it WILL take time.

I dislike giving advice.  There's often a moralist coldness that ignores the hot human factors involved.  It's certainly of use in some situations but generally I'd rather exchange ideas.  Having said that, empathising with how caved in your world must feel right now, a little guidance from further up the curve may not be the worst thing.  The betrayal affected me for years.  It still does.  I would still get angry and yearn for some kind of justice.  Very often haplessly.  But this is something that you will eventually need to learn from and it's good to consider that how you act now will be something you'll have to justify, and indeed be inspired by, into the future.  Even if it 'feels' wrong to do certain things, just try to do things in a way that are beneficial to the future you.  As cringey as that sounds.

Now, after some tough times, I landed on my feet.  As painful and damaging as things were, of watching my life combust in front of me, my experience also disciplined me.  I realised I was a fool to think things could ever really have worked between us.  That our union wasn't as strong as I wanted it, needed it to be.  That I had been somewhat deceiving myself.  I also subsequently learned that although I didn't ever 'transgress', I was also significantly responsible for our relationship not working.  Give yourself the best chance to learn from this.  I've, eventually, come out the other side all right.  I'm now in a far healthier relationship.  Not doing too badly.  And I think I'm a better person.  Now, of course, I'm not advocating this path for you.  I still believe in love and people and relationships and forgiveness.  If you can work this out then that's wonderful.  But it's good to have as healthy a level of self-awareness as possible.  What I would advise is to approach this moment carefully, sensitively and intelligently in order not to further damage the principles and values you possess that have felt so violated.  You'll need those, stronger and wiser, in the years to come.  Grace under pressure and all that.  As hard as that is.  I spent an inordinate amount of time being angry, being sad, being confused, 'getting it out of my system', but hopefully I didn't let it overwhelm me.  I didn't let how I felt 'metastasise', if you'll forgive the expression, into something truly corrosive.  How things panned out was the best thing for me.  In many ways I dodged a bullet.  And in many ways I got lucky.  It wasn't through my own shrewdness or whatever that I came to the right conclusion.  But it was very much through not doing the wrong things.  As simplistic as that sounds, that's something I've been able to hang on to.  I''m glad you have some good people close to you.  I hope you do what's right.  I wish you happiness however long it takes.

(any other things you want to discuss just let me know/please ignore this entirely if you so wish )

[Rds1983]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

Thank you very, very much for sharing @Shomin Geki. 

I’m back in a very dark place, as the overwhelming size of what she’s done to me and our family is beginning to sink in.  

Sorry to read all this bud. From talking to you in the gym thread I know you like working out. It always works wonders for me in helping me process things. Go get an hour or two in, put your phone on airplane mode to ignore everything and just focus on the weights for a bit. It'll help you to release some of the tension and stress. 

[Rds1983]

A lot has already been said in here so I'll be brief on my thoughts. 

First, know that whilst none of us know you in real life we are all here offering support in any way we can. 

Second, you already know that this sucks. But remember that it will get better in time. Whatever happens and whatever you decide to do in time things will be good again. 

Third, you're not alone in being cheated on and it doesn't make you less of a man. It can happen to anyone and my ex cheated on me (long time ago). 

Fourth, only you can decide what you want to do. Don't be pressured into anything that ultimately doesn't work for you. It will not work well long term. Whatever you choose, if it's your choice, you can make it work. 

Lastly, as a child of divorce, if you're choosing something for your kids just make sure that you are choosing what's best for them and not what's actually best for you. My Dad stayed with my Mum for an extra 20 years after they first nearly split up. That included a bandaid baby and he then only stayed until she was 16. Honestly, I wish he hadn't. It was a toxic environment and I could tell something was wrong. Nobody was actually happy and me and  my siblings all have some issues because of it. If he'd actually left it would have been a clean break and given everyone a chance to move on and for my folks to actually mend their relationship. If I split from my wife it would be awful not seeing my son everyday but I think it would be worse for him to grow up in a house with 2 parents not getting along. 

But everyone is different and you need to figure out what works best for you all. I really don't envy you but will happily talk things through if I can help. 

[Dante_Lockhart]

@El Zen I know you mentioned it a few times before, but please don't think of it as 'abandoning' your child if you do decide you can't continue as a couple. You'll always be there for your kids and I'm sure you'll fight to see them regularly if it does come to it.

[mjmooney]

16 hours ago, El Zen said:

I’m not sure how smart it was, but we just had sex. Pretty good sex too. 

Nice to see I could feel desire for her, at least. 

It was smart. But you need to sit down and talk things through. And it will still take a long time. 

One the one hand you don't want her thinking "Oh, that was easy, I got away with it, means I could do it again, and he'll tolerate it". 

On the other hand you don't want to be that guy who spends the next twenty years using it as a stick to beat her with. 

You have a responsibility to your kids, you have to work out a way of moving forward. Won't be easy, but you both have to try. 

[a m ole]

1 minute ago, mjmooney said:

On the other hand you don't want to be that guy who spends the next twenty years using it as a stick to beat her with.

Yep, much easier to beat someone with a real stick.

[foreveryoung]

One thing is, whatever you do, never let the male pride get in the way of any decision. If you feel you want to try again, do it. Dont let that little voice keep telling you "how dare she do this to me".  It's like telling your friends "I binned her off", trying to be cool, an pretending to feel good about it, when inside you'll be thinking, "what have I done". Make it your own decision when you feel the time is right.

 

[Rds1983]

1 minute ago, El Zen said:

Sorry to run play-by-play, but I’m finding it therapeutic. 

I’ve come home to be here when my son comes home from school. 

I’m offering her civility and cooperation, and an open mind but with a slightly pessimistic gut feeling, she’s looking for a commitment because of the pregnancy. We have therapy on Friday. I hope that helps. 

Don't be rushed into making a decision that will affect not only the rest of your life but also hers and both of the kids. You risk making the wrong decision that way. Deep down she'll know this too. 

Make the right decision not the quick/easy one. 

Hopefully Friday's session helps you make that but if you need longer then take it. 

[Rds1983]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

It’s going to take a very, very long time to figure out how this is going to be. 

I am desparately hurt by her actions and betrayal, relieved to finally know the truth, opening my mind to imagining a life without her is both liberating and scary at the same time, actually talking to those closest to me about a burden that’s been weighing on me forever is cathartic and is helping me see that I don’t need to be strong all the time. 

Part of me feels this is never going to work, and that making that decision will probably help me get over the pain a lot quicker. The idea is both extremely comforting and sad at the same time. 

At the same time, in dealing with this, we seem to be reconnecting at a level we probably abandoned a long time ago, before any of this. Which is confusing, but extremely powerful. Our shared love for our son and shared devotion to make his life as wonderful as possible, is a tremendously strong bond, and while I’m not going to stay with her to protect my son from the pain of seeing his parents split, the joy I get from doing things together as a family is something I know I’d miss if we do eventually split up. 

We’re communicating well now. I’m confident we’ll be able to cooperate well and be friends, no matter what. I’m confident my son will be okay, no matter what. 

My entire adult life, since I was 22, has been with her. She, and for the past seven years our son, has been my number one priority for 12 years. I don’t know how to live a grown up life without her. I don’t know if I’d be happier or not without her. I have nothing to compare it to. I need to somehow be able to learn what that life would look like before I can truly know what I want. 

With professional help, with support from my family, and - yes - also from my wife, I will figure this out someday. And my life will be okay after I do. 

I appreciate all of your support over the past few days. Just being able to write down my thoughts somewhere where people would read them and sympathise with me has been comforting and therapeutic. I’ve probably overshared and said more than I should, but it has felt necessary. Thank you for taking it seriously and for responding in earnest and with sincere care. 

Take all the time you need. 

However, remember that decisions aren't necessarily cast in stone and there's always a chance that you could either split up or get back together in the future. 

Just try and look on the bright side. With the rate of responses you're currently getting you'll be a Grandmaster in no time! 

Edited March 10, 2022 by Rds1983

[El Zen]

While no decision has been made, and me very much still in total emotional limbo, I have to begin facing the realities of divorce being an option. Perhaps, for the sake of my own emotional well being, it’s the likely option. 

The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

a) Not seeing my son every day is almost unthinkable. 
b) Our marriage, our project, feels incomplete. We were supposed to have two children, my son was supposed to have a sibling. We had lots of things we wanted to do together as a family. I still love spending time together, the three of us.
c) I haven’t been single since I was 22 years old. I literally have no idea what it’s like to live alone. 

So, wise friends of VT, how does one deal with that? Do you ever get over the pain of missing chunks of your child’s life? Do you ever get over the pain of losing what you thought was the love of your life? How the f*** does one get divorced and survive? I know people do it all the time, and they seem to be okay, but jeez, the thought just fills me with utter dread. 

[Rds1983]

7 hours ago, El Zen said:

While no decision has been made, and me very much still in total emotional limbo, I have to begin facing the realities of divorce being an option. Perhaps, for the sake of my own emotional well being, it’s the likely option. 

The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

a) Not seeing my son every day is almost unthinkable. 
b) Our marriage, our project, feels incomplete. We were supposed to have two children, my son was supposed to have a sibling. We had lots of things we wanted to do together as a family. I still love spending time together, the three of us.
c) I haven’t been single since I was 22 years old. I literally have no idea what it’s like to live alone. 

So, wise friends of VT, how does one deal with that? Do you ever get over the pain of missing chunks of your child’s life? Do you ever get over the pain of losing what you thought was the love of your life? How the f*** does one get divorced and survive? I know people do it all the time, and they seem to be okay, but jeez, the thought just fills me with utter dread. 

Not been through this myself so can't really offer any advice (apart from what I've said previously having been a child of divorce). I can say I sympathise as it sounds awful and picturing going through it myself is not pleasant. 

Try and remember you've got loads of people on here routing for you. 

I've seen friends/colleagues in similar situations have fun with 'online dating' and some ridiculously attractive girls in their early 20s so at least you may have that to look forward to. 

[lapal_fan]

8 hours ago, El Zen said:

While no decision has been made, and me very much still in total emotional limbo, I have to begin facing the realities of divorce being an option. Perhaps, for the sake of my own emotional well being, it’s the likely option. 

The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

a) Not seeing my son every day is almost unthinkable. 
b) Our marriage, our project, feels incomplete. We were supposed to have two children, my son was supposed to have a sibling. We had lots of things we wanted to do together as a family. I still love spending time together, the three of us.
c) I haven’t been single since I was 22 years old. I literally have no idea what it’s like to live alone. 

So, wise friends of VT, how does one deal with that? Do you ever get over the pain of missing chunks of your child’s life? Do you ever get over the pain of losing what you thought was the love of your life? How the f*** does one get divorced and survive? I know people do it all the time, and they seem to be okay, but jeez, the thought just fills me with utter dread. 

No idea, but I know a single man in his 40s and he's absolutely pitiful.

He drives around local villages on his Todd, has no friends, no garden, saves up money he never intends to spend and lives like an absolute scrote.

@Xela, tell him what its like being a human tragedy.

[Xela]

37 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

No idea, but I know a single man in his 40s and he's absolutely pitiful.

He drives around local villages on his Todd, has no friends, no garden, saves up money he never intends to spend and lives like an absolute scrote.

@Xela, tell him what its like being a human tragedy.

Least you never made fun of my waistline. 

Now leave me alone while I think of ways not to spend my money. 

[lapal_fan]

11 minutes ago, Xela said:

Least you never made fun of my waistline. 

Now leave me alone while I think of ways not to spend my money. 

[AndyClarke]

21 hours ago, El Zen said:

While no decision has been made, and me very much still in total emotional limbo, I have to begin facing the realities of divorce being an option. Perhaps, for the sake of my own emotional well being, it’s the likely option. 

The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

a) Not seeing my son every day is almost unthinkable. 
b) Our marriage, our project, feels incomplete. We were supposed to have two children, my son was supposed to have a sibling. We had lots of things we wanted to do together as a family. I still love spending time together, the three of us.
c) I haven’t been single since I was 22 years old. I literally have no idea what it’s like to live alone. 

So, wise friends of VT, how does one deal with that? Do you ever get over the pain of missing chunks of your child’s life? Do you ever get over the pain of losing what you thought was the love of your life? How the f*** does one get divorced and survive? I know people do it all the time, and they seem to be okay, but jeez, the thought just fills me with utter dread. 

Completely different reason to you in that my Wife turned around one day and basically said "I don't want to be with you anymore", completely out of the blue.

Days later I was at my Mum and Dad's wondering what the hell i was going to do at 38, single, ashamed and not able to see my daughter whenever I wanted, she was 5 at the time. I had lost everything, the forever home we'd worked hard to buy, everything that goes in it, my daughter and my 2 step kids who I had brought up for 10 years, both with a very troubled past. There was no sympathy for any of these things from my wife who'd already bought into the fantasy she'd created with her best mate (who did the exact same to her Husband months later).

Anyhow, to answer your question, 3 years later I am flying. I divorced my ex as soon as I could and moved on with my life, sold her my portion of the house (should have got more money as she refused to acknowledge my ownership of the other things in the house). I have my daughter 50% of the time (over 2 weeks we'll both have had her for all 7 days) and I've upgraded every single part of my life from the quality time I now spend with my daughter (naturally more effort and it is generally the 2 of us), my car, my job, even my TV! I got back onto the dating scene, got a bit of practice in and then found the most amazing and beautiful Woman who leaves me wondering what the hell I was doing with a Woman like my ex wife in the first place!

The difference of course is that I didn't make any decisions, it was served to me, whereas you have a decision to make. What I can tell you is that it starts off difficult but gets easier and is not the disaster you think it will be for children. My daughter loves her 2 bedrooms, 2 Christmases, 2 Birthdays etc etc, kids are smart and accepting, we spend more time doing things together than we did before.

 

Edited March 26, 2022 by AndyClarke

[Follyfoot]

22 hours ago, El Zen said:

While no decision has been made, and me very much still in total emotional limbo, I have to begin facing the realities of divorce being an option. Perhaps, for the sake of my own emotional well being, it’s the likely option. 

The idea is absolutely terrifying. 

a) Not seeing my son every day is almost unthinkable. 
b) Our marriage, our project, feels incomplete. We were supposed to have two children, my son was supposed to have a sibling. We had lots of things we wanted to do together as a family. I still love spending time together, the three of us.
c) I haven’t been single since I was 22 years old. I literally have no idea what it’s like to live alone. 

So, wise friends of VT, how does one deal with that? Do you ever get over the pain of missing chunks of your child’s life? Do you ever get over the pain of losing what you thought was the love of your life? How the f*** does one get divorced and survive? I know people do it all the time, and they seem to be okay, but jeez, the thought just fills me with utter dread. 

Advice is still the same as it was three weeks ago. Get rid, move on **** her off. Agree access regarding your beautiful child and work around it and start giving you some you time to heal, Being on your own can give you time to reflect and Is most certainly not to be scared of . Post back in 4 to 6 weeks  and if it  not loads better i Will be truly amazed. Stop being her victim , you seem far better than that 

Edited March 26, 2022 by Follyfoot

[El Zen]

It’s done. We’re separating. Just a matter of finding a place for her, telling our son (just the thought makes me sick) and doing the paperwork. It’ll take some time to get it all done, but it’s happening. 

It was inevitable, and a relief to a degree, but I feel absolutely devastated. We spent all evening yesterday just crying together. **** me, this sucks. 

[Tegis]

3 minutes ago, El Zen said:

It’s done. We’re separating. Just a matter of finding a place for her, telling our son (just the thought makes me sick) and doing the paperwork. It’ll take some time to get it all done, but it’s happening. 

It was inevitable, and a relief to a degree, but I feel absolutely devastated. We spent all evening yesterday just crying together. **** me, this sucks. 

Either way, I'm happy you made A decision. Lingering is probably not healthy. Good luck with all the practical stuff and your inevitable incoming happy days again.

[Rds1983]

25 minutes ago, El Zen said:

It’s done. We’re separating. Just a matter of finding a place for her, telling our son (just the thought makes me sick) and doing the paperwork. It’ll take some time to get it all done, but it’s happening. 

It was inevitable, and a relief to a degree, but I feel absolutely devastated. We spent all evening yesterday just crying together. **** me, this sucks. 

Sorry to hear that bud. At least you can start moving on now though and who knows what the future holds. Having seen the resentment and bitterness between my folks before they split y Dad stuck around for 10 odd years when he didn't want to and just for the kids) it sounds like it's for the best from what you've said. 

Good luck with the little one. Try to remember to put him first when you can and not to put him in the middle of anything negative. 

We're here for you in anyway we can. 

[Mr_Dogg]

35 minutes ago, El Zen said:

It’s done. We’re separating. Just a matter of finding a place for her, telling our son (just the thought makes me sick) and doing the paperwork. It’ll take some time to get it all done, but it’s happening. 

It was inevitable, and a relief to a degree, but I feel absolutely devastated. We spent all evening yesterday just crying together. **** me, this sucks. 

Find time to go and talk to a professional. Just 5 sessions or so should help you get your head around it.