Irreverentad's Relationship Advice Thread

[bobzy]

2 minutes ago, El Zen said:

My main issue right now isn’t so much trust, as it is complete and utter disgust. Looking at her and thinking about her makes me feel physically disgusted. 

It's very raw mate.  You found out last night and will be trying to process a lot and I'd have thought disgust / hate will be right up there.

 

Just know that we're here for you in whatever capacity you need that to be.

[Dante_Lockhart]

1 hour ago, El Zen said:

The fact that it happened, of course, but also the fact that I specfically confronted her with suspicions countless times and she made it sound like I was the one making shit up and being a controlling partner, like I was the one in the wrong, the fact that stuff happened after all that and after my mother fell ill with cancer, and continuing to lie about it up until her hand was forced by someone else. Yeah, it’s all a complete mess. 

Sorry to hear that mate. It's easy for me to say this from an outside perspective, not knowing you or your family, but for me - with what you've just said about deflecting back on you when asked etc... - I'd be done. You can't just stay together for the kids as it could end up affecting them more being in a household filled with resentment, hate etc.. Obviously you do what you think its right but being stuck in a loveless relationship without trust is worse than breaking up IMO.

[El Zen]

As always, though, VT is brilliant. Sharing and talking with you is helping me a lot. It doesn’t solve anything, but it makes me feel a lot less alone. And you have no idea how much that means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

(it means a plethora.) 

[StefanAVFC]

1 minute ago, El Zen said:

As always, though, VT is brilliant. Sharing and talking with you is helping me a lot. It doesn’t solve anything, but it makes me feel a lot less alone. And you have no idea how much that means.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

of course, kidding. We're all here for us whenever mate.

[HanoiVillan]

17 minutes ago, El Zen said:

Thanks, @HanoiVillan. I appreciate your input, and can absolutely see what you’re saying. I think monogamy is an essential virtue in a relationship - or my idea of a relationship - but I understand how that doesn’t necessarily mean an affair can’t possible be forgiven. At this point, I just don’t know. I guess I’d want to be able to forgive, I’m willing to believe she’s a better person now than she was when it happened, and that she probably wouldn’t go down that road again if I decide to stay. I believe she sincerely wants to be with me, but I’m not sure I trust she’s more sorry for me than she is for herself. She kind of goes from being beside herself with remorse one moment to being extremely protective the next. 

I am going to do what’s right for me, but it is extremely fuzzy right now what that means. Seeing my son every day is part of what’s «right for me». Giving my son a much wanted brother or sister, and being there for that kid 24/7 is part of what’s right for me. Being friends and building a home with my wife is part of it too. But romantically, sexually, I’m not sure I can look at her that way again. I’m not sure I can be attracted to her again. 

That seems like a sensible way to see the situation. All I would say, with regard to your last two sentences, is it is *way* too early to be basing anything off that. AIUI it's less than 24 hours after you found out; naturally emotions are still very high, anger disgust and betrayal in particular. You can't expect yourself to immediately see your wife and your relationship in the same way you did yesterday morning. She needs to give you - and you need to give yourself - some space to process your emotions. 

One recommendation I would give (not this minute, but soon-ish if you're thinking of trying to repair things) is to do some couples counselling. At the moment, with you, she is spinning between various modes, apologising to you, being angry at herself, being angry at being caught out, still trying to get back to the controlled situation of yesterday, etc. It may be clearer for her to hear how much harm she's caused from a third party, and they will be better able to understand and get to the root cause of the situation. Counselling doesn't save every relationship; my best friend has just gotten divorced after his own infidelity, but one thing about it was that counselling clarified for both of them what the causes were and what the best way forward was, and helped them to an amicable divorce. Of course, sometimes it does the opposite, and helps a damaged relationship heal. 

But right now, give yourself some time, mental space and ideally physical space as well. 

[Rodders]

Good luck. I think it is possible to forgive and move forward, but it would take an awfully long time. She should have no issue with you if you want to take plenty of time away from the home to process it all. If she's genuinely contrite about it all, she should be as supportive as you need her to be for their to be any chance of a way back. Maybe after a long period of time away consider couples therapy - even if it is simply to confirm a need for a permanent split, it might also help ensure that decision is understood by her as well in a neutral environment

[HanoiVillan]

Just now, Rodders said:

Good luck. I think it is possible to forgive and move forward, but it would take an awfully long time. She should have no issue with you if you want to take plenty of time away from the home to process it all. If she's genuinely contrite about it all, she should be as supportive as you need her to be for their to be any chance of a way back. Maybe after a long period of time away consider couples therapy - even if it is simply to confirm a need for a permanent split, it might also help ensure that decision is understood by her as well in a neutral environment

Ha, jinx!

[tomav84]

4 minutes ago, El Zen said:

We are going to talk to someone. I don’t really have a choice, with kids involved these things a mandatory, but I would anyway. If nothing else, then for someone to at least help me sort and process my own emotions and make me better equipped should I decide to move on alone. 

I will be taking some alone time, but right now I just feel too fragile to be alone, and I kind of don’t want to abondon my son.

I did even download the Tinder app in fit of rage and vengefulness, but have so far decided against actually creating a user. Revenge probably isn’t a good idea. Not right now. Probably never. 

probably the most sensible.

always said if it happened to me, even if i could forgive, would it be worth continuing? a day at villa is a 12 hour day for me...i'd be constantly wondering what she's up to. if she's on her phone, who's she talking to? if she's working from home and i'm in the office, who's going around there? the constant worry would eat me up too much

but speaking to someone better qualified than us lot is probably a better place to start before thinking of all that

[bobzy]

10 minutes ago, El Zen said:

We are going to talk to someone. I don’t really have a choice, with kids involved these things a mandatory, but I would anyway. If nothing else, then for someone to at least help me sort and process my own emotions and make me better equipped should I decide to move on alone. 

I will be taking some alone time, but right now I just feel too fragile to be alone, and I kind of don’t want to abondon my son.

I did even download the Tinder app in fit of rage and vengefulness, but have so far decided against actually creating a user. Revenge probably isn’t a good idea. Not right now. Probably never. 

It won't make you feel any better.

[Jonesy7211]

If you don't mind me offering, I had a similar experience 8 years ago. I was unknowingly suffering terribly with depression, and my wife thought I'd lost interest in our marriage. She'd started a courtship with someone from work, and she says it only led to anything physical one time. I stayed because I couldn't face the thought of not seeing my son every day. I have tried my best to forgive her, and she felt terrible guilt not only for what happened but also because she misread what was going on with me at the time.

Fast forward 8 years and we've had another child, and things are good on the whole. However the thought that she strayed is never really very far away, especially when I'm feeling sad. Forgiving somebody for something like this is, in my opinion, a continual thing. It's very hard to draw a line in the sand. Even now I sometimes feel angry, and sadly, I do not trust her as much as I once did. I don't think I ever will.

I would not like to offer an opinion on what you should do, but rather say that if you go the same way I did and carry on then it's can be very tough at times. I've no doubt in my mind I would not have made the same decision if we were childless.

I wish you the very best.

[Jonesy7211]

Just now, El Zen said:

Thanks for sharing, @Jonesy7211. If you don’t mind, what you’re describing is kind of what I’m worried about if I decide to stay. I can be slightly posessive in the first place, and I’m worried I’ll never truly be able to shake the idea of someone else taking my place. I’m not sure I’ll ever be able to not see that in any future romantic situations between us. And that is really rather bleak as far as alternative futures go. 

I don't mind at all. There's really no right or wrong response to this situation. I've had all the thoughts many men have had; having affairs myself, fighting with the man involved, telling his wife, walking out out on my wife etc. For me, I had to decide what would make me happy? The answer for me was being with my children, I live and breathe for them.

I think I understand how you feel about romantic situations too. For a while, sex was just sex. It look some time before I'd really be vulnerable or "connected" with her. But as the trust came back, so did the warmth and closeness. I guess the time for this would be different for everyone.

When my children are older, will I still feel the same about being married to my wife? I don't know, but I hope so. But I do know that for me, being at home with a wife and children who love me makes me feel better than I imagine leaving everyone to start again would have done. And that's how I live with my decision.

[Jonesy7211]

Just now, El Zen said:

I see what you mean. And I suppose if I end up staying, my reasons would be very similar to the ones you describe here. 

I always thought this was a hard line I’d never tolerate being crossed. It’s what I’d always say in the hypothetical, and I guess I have even looked slightly down on people who are «too weak to leave». 

Actually leaving, when you have a child and a whole life together, is a lot harder than I imagined it would be. On the other hand, part of me now wishes I’d have left three and a half years ago, and not have let her control my future by reluctantly deciding to believe her. I’m kind of shocked she decided to get pregnant - which she knew was my dream - before telling me. That really hurts. She’s taken away any say I have in my own future, and wasted so much of time.

It took me a long time to get over the perception and stereotype that a man who stays is weak. I don't don't see how anybody can judge a situation they have absolutely no awareness of.

I come from a broken home where both parents repeatedly cheated, and when we got serious, I asked my wife (then GF) that if she ever wanted to cheat she'd tell me first so we could break up. When she did cheat it hurt even more because of what I'd experienced as a child, and what I asked of her.

I won't judge your wife, but I think you've got a genuine right to be angry and confused about the timing of her pregnancy and her telling you about the affair. That being said, she may be hoping that a baby can fix things. If I were in your shoes I'd try my best to remain calm and talk to her about it. No guarantee I'd stay calm though, I know I lost my temper and shouted at my wife quite a few times in the aftermath. If you don't mind me saying, I don't think she controls your future though. Ultimately that'll be up to you.

Reading the thread, I noticed quite a few people recommend couples counselling. If I may offer, I had counselling just for me after the affair. I became a lot more balanced about the affair, but also about myself too. I have much better mental coping mechanisms in place than I did before. My confidence was on the floor, and I had a very jaded view of pretty much everyone. That's (mostly) changed now.

[Stevo985]

35 minutes ago, El Zen said:

@Stevo985. I understand if this is too touchy a topic and I really hope you don’t mind me asking, but seeing as I’m kind of in the same place as your ex is right now, how is she doing and how are things between you?

HI mate. Just read your situation.

It sounds remarkably similar to mine. Except of course that I'm ashamed to say I was the one doing the cheating in my situation. Something I will never ever forgive myself for.

 

My ex is doing ok. She understandably went through a really tough time for the first couple of months. Maybe worse than your situation because she's the one who was pregnant so it must have been so scary for her. It honestly makes me well up thinking about having done that to her

(for anyone reading this who doesn't know the backstory, I didn't cheat on her while she was pregnant. I don't know if that makes it any better or not, but just for clarity)

Now though she's doing ok. She's had the baby, she hasn't suffered, yet, with any post natal depression which she was convinced she would have, and we are getting on great. I've lived with her since Jack was born, so coming up to 10 weeks, and there hasn't really been any awkwardness. It probably helps that between me working during the day and her going to bed earlier (I usually take the baby from around 8pm and let her sleep and then e swap in the night) we don't actually spend that much time together. But things are totally amicable.

There's no romance, I don't think there ever will be any more. And I don't think she's forgiven me, and 100% don't blame her for that. If she'd done it to me I wouldn't have forgiven her so I haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

I guess what it shows is there is a way for it to work with a new baby and the parents to not be together. But then again everyone is different. And we're only 10 weeks into this situation. It could still go to shit.

 

What I would say is you need to ask yourself

1. Can you ever forgive her?
2. Can you ever trust her again?
3. Do you believe her that it will never happen again?
4. Do you still love her?

 

In my opinion, and it's only my opinion, if the answer to any of those is no, then it won't work.

 

The only other thing I'd add, is that in my situation one thing that's annoyed me is that I got the impression that my ex cared too much about what other people think. Like she could never even entertain the idea of us getting back together because of what other people would think. Now if I'm being honest I don't think it would work anyway and I think there's numerous reasons why she wouldn't take me back. But still, it annoyed me.

So whatever you do, as I think someone else said, do it for you. Don't do whatever's best for the kids. You can't live a life of misery just because it's easier on your kids. They'll get used to whatever arrangement you have. 
And don't do it because of what other people think. If the answer to my questions above are all "yes", and you really do think you can move past this and be with her again, then don't **** give that up because you're worried about what other people will think

[Stevo985]

4 minutes ago, El Zen said:

it seems like she doesn’t really want that and wants me to commit to giving her a chance before she commits to going through with the baby.

This is kinda **** up to be honest. Like I guess I understand why she's thinking like that, but still. Seems incredibly harsh on you

5 minutes ago, El Zen said:

From your list, I’d say the most likely to keep coming up ‘no’ is number 4. I fell in love with a person that came with a set of values, a character, and there was intense beauty in that, in addition to the physical beauty. I know it’s still raw, but that person seems entirely gone to me now. The person who did what she did isn’t that person I fell for, and she’s taken the very memories and shared history that was the basis of my love for her, and completely and intentionally ripped it to pieces. I’m not sure I can ever truly love that person. 

Unfortunately this is the one that will probably take the most time to know the answer to. You're probably to **** up in the head at the moment to make a sound judgement on that

[mottaloo]

A ton of good advice here from VT as expected and yes, your decisions will be YOUR decisions ultimately and we all wish you the best, whatever the outcome. 

FWIW when it was me, I was feeling the same way as you are now. The thought that my now ex wife ( with someone she worked with, surprise surprise) was physically intimate with another bloke and all that goes with the "act" made me look at her as soiled "goods", dirty - that was when I could look at her. 

After that came the mental torture I put myself through when she was going on a "girlie night out". What was she up to ? The fool that I was, I'd drop her off to the pub - usually the Cup in Sutton - then pick her up afterwards, waiting outside like the fool I was until she eventually came outside. 

We had no kids thankfully, just us. To be fair, I should've seen the warning signs when she'd casually "wonder" out loud what it would be like to sh*g someone else (I was her first and only).

I bear grudges and a part of me will never get over it and that's my problem. Sorry for sounding like a doom and gloom merchant but I sincerely wish you all the best and the one bit of advice I can give you is to allow yourself to step back and take your time, no knee jerk decisions.

Good luck mate.

Edited March 8, 2022 by mottaloo

[Follyfoot]

15 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

A ton of good advice here from VT as expected and yes, your decisions will be YOUR decisions ultimately and we all wish you the best, whatever the outcome. 

FWIW when it was me, I was feeling the same way as you are now. The thought that my now ex wife ( with someone she worked with, surprise surprise) was physically intimate with another bloke and all that goes with the "act" made me look at her as soiled "goods", dirty - that was when I could look at her. 

After that came the mental torture I put myself through when she was going on a "girlie night out". What was she up to ? The fool that I was, I'd drop her off to the pub - usually the Cup in Sutton - then pick her up afterwards, waiting outside like the fool I was until she eventually came outside. 

We had no kids thankfully, just us. To be fair, I should've seen the warning signs when she'd casually "wonder" out loud what it would be like to sh*g someone else (I was her first).

I bear grudges and a part of me will never get over it and that's my problem. Sorry for sounding like a doom and gloom merchant but I sincerely wish you all the best and the one bit of advice I can give you is to allow yourself to step back and take your time, no knee jerk decisions.

Good luck mate.

I used to drink in the Cup 30 odd years ago, was a decent Villa boozer before it got done out 

[lapal_fan]

What I think about the situation depends on the mask I'm wearing at that moment.

Strong, Powerful Lap says - It was "only" sex.  Two people who are horny in the same place probably will have sex, to get over the feeling.  We're animals after all.  Is sex that big of a deal?  Plus, you said she was suffering mentally, that could have had untold affects on her decision making and the chemicals we're made up of, how'd you even quantify that?

Another Lap thinks - She broke your trust, marriage means different things to different people, but you sign up to the commitment of monogamy, over having a nice dress and all your friends calling you gorgeous for a day.  It's a life contract and she hasn't upheld her part of the deal, AND she lied to you about it, AND she's gotten pregnant again probably thinking "that's gone now, I can live happily ever after". 

Another Lap thinks - Would I forgive?  What are the options?  I mean.. if you left, you WOULD be happy again, but this is a huge thing to have happened to you yesterday, our culture is built around these relationships.  If you stay, would you eventually be happy?  Would you always have this thought in the back of your head?  When going out, when staying home, when having sex?  It's a mind ****. 

We're all different, I'm edgy because it happened more than once and the truth of "did it happen more?" will probably never be clear, but again that's a trust thing - trust is very hard to build once it's been broken. 

I genuinely hope you find a solution that's good for you, your wife and your child.  There's plenty of time to think, plenty of time to talk.  As others have said, don't worry about others, they'll talk, but who cares?  This has happened to you, not them.  

Don't feel stupid, or gullible, you take the moral high ground if required because you obviously trusted your wife, she's made a decision to do something she probably regrets.  You kept your end of the deal. 

Good luck, we're all here for you x

[mottaloo]

7 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

I used to drink in the Cup 30 odd years ago, was a decent Villa boozer before it got done out 

It was 30 yrs ago when we split up.....hang on a sec.....

[Follyfoot]

2 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

It was 30 yrs ago when we split up.....hang on a sec.....

[Rodders]

that pressure to make you choose is so **** up it's making me angry on your behalf . You shouldn't be under any pressure to commit to her, that would be flashing alarm bells about a future life. Would she then be angry with you if in a couple of years you just feel it's too much and you can't do it anymore?