MWARLEY2 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 (edited) After the sub being subbed last night and the huge pain i felt for Jack instantly the only thing this says about the situation is that if he ever does dare to leave us it will be the most hurt i will ever feel about football. We kick every kick with him. We feel every foul. We cheer every time he beats a man , we get frustrated every time he shows for the ball and gets ignored. But we also see in our heart of hearts that he isnt as good in the England system as he is in our own. It sometimes feels that he is just running round the pitch without the real menace and intent that we see most weeks. And i still effing love him Edited July 8, 2021 by MWARLEY2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WallisFrizz Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, AVFCforever1991 said: The same Portugal side that Germany put 4 past? , Wait, England beat Germany..... England would have beaten Portugal. We are actually a very good side having grown into the tournament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Grealish is going to have to improve his defensive effectiveness if he wants to be a starter in this England team. He puts the work in, but he's going to have to show Southgate he can track a player and win it back more regularly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
M_Afro Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 He looks lacking in confidence to me. Southgate is killing him. We need to get him back to VP where Dean can get him back to his best. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
punkiller1981 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 hour ago, MWARLEY2 said: But we also see in our heart of hearts that he isnt as good in the England system as he is in our own. It sometimes feels that he is just running round the pitch without the real menace and intent that we see most weeks. And i still effing love him I thought this watching him last night. We (Villa) are set up to get the most from Jack as our best player, England are not so times when the ball would go to Jack if it was Villa it doesn’t it goes the other way therefore looking less effective in and England shirt 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post DCJonah Posted July 8, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted July 8, 2021 7 hours ago, DaveAV1 said: Silenced to the point that they won’t even ask a valid question. Surely that’s just poor journalism. I don’t think it was a good tactical decision. I thought we surrendered the momentum by putting another defender on. Fair enough if you want to say that he was vindicated by the result but it was a nervous last 15 mins, largely to be fair because there was so much at stake. The Danes were pretty whacked and down to 10 men. Which again begs the question why the extra defender? You seem to be very critical of the support shown to Jack. I agree it’s at times one eyed and a little over the top. However that is the nature of football supporters. I’d have to say that you sometimes come over as somewhat superior and dismissive of us simple souls who show such emotive support. I’m sure I’m wrong though. I'm not critical over the support of Jack. I felt sorry for him. I was annoyed as anyone those first few games when he didn't start. I'm critical over crazy conspiracy theories. Insane ideas that if people took off their claret and blue specs, would see just how mad they sound. I think Jack should have been used more. I sit up on the edge of my seat whenever he comes on. I want him to be England's main man. But I can also accept the mangers decisions when ultimately it is leading to the most success this team has experienced since 1966. 9 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ozvillafan Posted July 8, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted July 8, 2021 3 minutes ago, punkiller1981 said: I thought this watching him last night. We (Villa) are set up to get the most from Jack as our best player, England are not so times when the ball would go to Jack if it was Villa it doesn’t it goes the other way therefore looking less effective in and England shirt Aye. I remember at least once where he was standing in space with his hands up in the air. Ball never came.... ... whereas it never misses him with Villa. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adman Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, punkiller1981 said: I thought this watching him last night. We (Villa) are set up to get the most from Jack as our best player, England are not so times when the ball would go to Jack if it was Villa it doesn’t it goes the other way therefore looking less effective in and England shirt You'd think that a system where the striker drops deep, 2 x CDMs, the CAM is a workhorse that the players on the wings could play with freedom going forward, but it is what it is. I'm not knocking Southgate, as we have desperately needed winning football above all else Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 England's best player was left out of the squad in '66. They won it. Ironically though I thought Jack looked fitter than he has since coming back from injury as he made a few sprints last night. He changed the game (along with Denmark's ridiculous changes) He really helped push and pin them back. After Jack came on we had the Dane's bacon. No I won't get my coat! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 7 hours ago, Keyblade said: I rarely see the top managers in the game make moves like this. Chucking on an extra defender and keeping the "speedster" up top sounds like a caricature of 2000's British football of teams with lesser players. This isn't Wigan Athletic 1-0 up at Old Trafford ffs. If it was Pep, he'd likely value Jack's ball-retention over Raheem's speed and if anything would have put on an extra midfielder to keep the ball. Didn’t Pep lose the final after over thinking his tactics? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisvilla4 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Looking forward to seeing Jack star for us again next season. Looking forward to seeing England in the final. UTV. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CVByrne Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Grealish just doesn't work in the current system. Which is for fast wide forwards and Kane dropping into midfield often. Jack doesn't work in the midfield as well as Mount as he isn't as defensive. He's a big talent to bring on when a game needs something and if England aren't leading with 20/30 mins to go. That's his role in this teamfor this tournament. At least he's getting on the pitch and playing a part. If England win it he'll have been a big part of it and can feel as happy as any of the team 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I was fewmin when I saw it was Grealish who came off because it looked like a public insult. After seeing Southgate explain it it does make sense even if it's not what I would have done. And while you can't prove if it was the right decision, by not losing or conceding another goal, it's proven not to be the wrong decision. As for the better England fan than you rubbish on here, people need to realise that a lot of people (myself included) feel much more of a Villa fan than England fan because with England you're supporting players you're normally programmed to dislike. I've become increasingly distanced from the England team over the years because it's always been full of players from teams that have always beaten us. I don't really identify with the England fan culture and have found myself wanting Wales or Scotland to do well just as much as England. If England do well, city centres get smashed up and nationalist rhetoric is ramped up. So first and foremost I'm a villa fan who feels affinity with villa players. I'm also British English. I'll support England but I don't have to 'just be happy and get behind the team' thanks. Also, lots of people on here aren't English so assuming everyone should support England is a bit of a standard rude English trope. I'm glad England are in the final because it's another chance for superstar villa player, Grealish, to shine. It'd be nice if England win too but I dread the after effects. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Messy Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Trippier would be a penalty taker, as is Kane and Sterling. To bring him on he couldn't take off the latter two. Grealish was the one who had to go off. I dont think there is an agenda, just poor man management. Hopefully he (Southgate) appopogies and guarantees him (Grealish) at least half an hour in the final to become the hero again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 33 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I'm not critical over the support of Jack. I felt sorry for him. I was annoyed as anyone those first few games when he didn't start. I'm critical over crazy conspiracy theories. Insane ideas that if people took off their claret and blue specs, would see just how mad they sound. I think Jack should have been used more. I sit up on the edge of my seat whenever he comes on. I want him to be England's main man. But I can also accept the mangers decisions when ultimately it is leading to the most success this team has experienced since 1966. I really dislike Gareth Southgate, but I can agree with most of that even though I feel some of England’s success is in spite of the manager’s decisions and not because of them. I certainly don’t believe there’s any conspiracy against Jack, but I think you have to concede that when you get to watch Jack every week and know how f***ing brilliant he is, the treatment he gets with England is f***ing odd. I mean, we’re not the only ones saying he should be playing more. He appears to be the most popular player in England at the moment. It’s strange, it’s frustrating, and it kind of dovetails in with a general feeling among Villa fans that our club isn’t getting the recognition, status and fair treatment it deserves (and it reminds me of similar complaints when Gareth Barry wasn’t being selected for England.) That overall feeling isn’t crazy. It is very, very understandable. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: I was fewmin when I saw it was Grealish who came off because it looked like a public insult. After seeing Southgate explain it it does make sense even if it's not what I would have done. And while you can't prove if it was the right decision, by not losing or conceding another goal, it's proven not to be the wrong decision. As for the better England fan than you rubbish on here, people need to realise that a lot of people (myself included) feel much more of a Villa fan than England fan because with England you're supporting players you're normally programmed to dislike. I've become increasingly distanced from the England team over the years because it's always been full of players from teams that have always beaten us. I don't really identify with the England fan culture and have found myself wanting Wales or Scotland to do well just as much as England. If England do well, city centres get smashed up and nationalist rhetoric is ramped up. So first and foremost I'm a villa fan who feels affinity with villa players. I'm also British English. I'll support England but I don't have to 'just be happy and get behind the team' thanks. Also, lots of people on here aren't English so assuming everyone should support England is a bit of a standard rude English trope. I'm glad England are in the final because it's another chance for superstar villa player, Grealish, to shine. It'd be nice if England win too but I dread the after effects. That's me as well. I've celebrated villa drawing games more than I did last night. But that doesn't stop me from seeing crazy conspiracy theories and being able to acknowledge what a huge achievement getting to a final is. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 2 minutes ago, El Zen said: I really dislike Gareth Southgate, but I can agree with most of that even though I feel some of England’s success is in spite of the manager’s decisions and not because of them. I certainly don’t believe there’s any conspiracy against Jack, but I think you have to concede that when you get to watch Jack every week and know how f***ing brilliant he is, the treatment he gets with England is f***ing odd. I mean, we’re not the only ones saying he should be playing more. He appears to be the most popular player in England at the moment. It’s strange, it’s frustrating, and it kind of dovetails in with a general feeling among Villa fans that our club isn’t getting the recognition, status and fair treatment it deserves (and it reminds me of similar complaints when Gareth Barry wasn’t being selected for England.) That overall feeling isn’t crazy. It is very, very understandable. Agree. Thinking Jack has been overlooked isn't crazy. Thinking that Southgate intentionally tried to humiliate him or holds an agenda against him is crazy. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greenfly Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 I don't think Southgate has any agenda against Jack at all. It's clear he doesn't have the same level of faith in him as we all do, but then again there are people here who genuinely believe he's the best player in the world, so maybe we elevate him a little higher than most. It's understandable, he is one of our own after all and is easily one of the best players in this England squad. If Southgate didn't trust him at all, like some suggest, then he wouldn't see minutes. He probably wouldn't be in the squad at all, because Southgate doesn't seem to bend to peer pressure or listen to fan's criticism. As it is, Jack is the plan B when we're chasing a game - he doesn't fit the system, but he can be like bringing a grenade to a fist fight when he's needed. I have no problem with that. Jack himself doesn't seem to have a problem with it either, so I'm not going to let it spoil my enjoyment of the occasion. It's coming home. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 1 minute ago, DCJonah said: Thinking that Southgate intentionally tried to humiliate him or holds an agenda against him is crazy. It certainly looked that way at first last night until seeing the context. And there definitely was an agenda against him before the tournament with the odd inconsistency in justification by Southgate for not picking him. But in this tournament, you can't argue that Southgate has brought him on every time he's needed him. Personally, I think it's a travesty he's not starting every game but that's a tactical disagreement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted July 8, 2021 Share Posted July 8, 2021 Once we scored they put four up top, so Gareth had a decision to make cos he wanted the extra defender on. The final result shows he made the right call in taking an offensive player off. Should it have been Jack, I’m not so sure but hey ho. Ultimately, we love him and he knows it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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