birdman Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 17 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: But for me he's not a left forward. He's an advanced playmaker that happens to primarily work from the left wing in what only can be described as a free role. That's partically my point. KDB plays far more advanced and in a far more direct role. More focused on end product than Jack. KDB is a better goal scorer no doubt but there are things Jack does that KDB does not or cannot do eg. close control, getting out of a tight spot etc. KDB is obviously more direct/shoot on sight type or guy and if Jack could bring an element of this into his play would be even better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Keyblade Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 53 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said: I understand your point, but it's not all about end product is it? Grealish is the type of footballer that not only has graft and skill, but he's capable of getting the ball, retain possession and bring the entire team into play. And I do wonder if KDB had played for us, if he had been able to take control of matches to the degree Grealish does. I didn't phrase that as a question, but I probably should have. I for one am not sure about that. KDB is exceptional, but he is just a different type of footballer to me. In fact thinking about it I'm not sure what historical footballer to compare Grealish's style to. Zidane? Zico? Rui Costa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted October 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2020 I think @mjmooney nailed it with George Best to be honest. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danishlad Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 41 minutes ago, rodders129 said: Was watching a YouTube highlight video of Michael Laudrup and think there’s quite a lot of similarities Everyone should watch those videos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CarryOnVilla Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: But sometimes your assists stats are only as good as the players on the end of them. For example Ozil had the most assists in Europe when playing for Real Madrid because he had Ronaldo on the end of his passes. Last season Jack was second in the league for chances created. He is heading in the right direction for eventual world class status. You don’t need stats to know KDB is a world class players. He’s been that level of quality for years. but as you say, Jack is on his way to that status. “world-class” takes time to earn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mjmooney Posted October 19, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, villalad21 said: You know what, mate? He can. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkLillis Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 The English player he has clear similarities with is Gazza. For me he has a better temperament and physique. Next level he really is I'm genuinely starting to doubt anyone's football knowledge when they try say he isn't all that now..... Gareth are you listening? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post villa4europe Posted October 19, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Lord Willard said: If you're playing as a left forward you 100% need the stats to back you up. sorry but im not a yank there's not a position in football I need backed up with stats, judge footballers by your eyes not their Wikipedia page, its the bane of modern football 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tomaszk Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, Lord Willard said: If you're playing as a left forward you 100% need the stats to back you up. No you don't. The performances matter more than figures. He'd have had 10 more assists last season if we had a striker. Would his performances have been "better" if El Ghazi didn't sky every tap in he had? No. They were brilliant either way. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrBlack Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 hours ago, TheMelvillan said: he is getting closer. at some point this season he is going to score one of those solo mazy goals where he jinks around 4 players in the box before slotting it home a la George Best for the San Jose Earthquakes 1981 or the one Ibrahimovich scored for Ajax in 2004. I guarantee it He'll also score another of his World class volleys from outside the area hopefully too. The whole country will soon have no excuse for not appreciating the quality player he is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigJim Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, sidcow said: I think @mjmooney nailed it with George Best to be honest. He certainly has a lot in common with Best, who for me is the best player I ever saw playing live. I would put Best among a small handful of "best in the world" I have only seen on TV. One of the things that puts GB above Grealish for me was his absolute fearlessness and strength in the tackle. Nobody wanted to get tackled by Best and I'm talking a time when he was facing some real nutters like Ron "Chopper" Harris and defenders got away with a lot more than today. Now Jack gets kicked a lot obviously, puts in his more than his share of tackles and is pretty good at winning the ball back. But on a different level to GB in my opinion. But it's a small point really. Some of Jack's dribbling in tight spaces is out of this world and his passing is absolutely sublime. I think in those areas he's getting to be as good as anyone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Willard Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: sorry but im not a yank there's not a position in football I need backed up with stats, judge footballers by your eyes not their Wikipedia page, its the bane of modern football To dismiss stats because you watch football with your eyes is rubbish. We all can see Jack's ability but for him to be classed as World Class he needs more assist and goals. Ronaldo and Messi, compete on who's the best footballer of all time. What do people use as an arguement. Stats of how many goals and assists they have. They're the best players in the world because of those stats. Stats that are backing up their ability. If think he is World Class without the need of having more assists and goals I think you've got claret and blue glasses on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 (edited) 18 minutes ago, Lord Willard said: To dismiss stats because you watch football with your eyes is rubbish. We all can see Jack's ability but for him to be classed as World Class he needs more assist and goals. Ronaldo and Messi, compete on who's the best footballer of all time. What do people use as an arguement. Stats of how many goals and assists they have. They're the best players in the world because of those stats. Stats that are backing up their ability. If think he is World Class without the need of having more assists and goals I think you've got claret and blue glasses on. That's the thing though, people aren't watching the greatest 2 players in my lifetime, they're wheeling off which ever stat best suits their argument Why watch messi when you can simply dismiss him based on Ronaldo scoring more goals away from home in the knockout stages of the CL? There's no such thing as Jack needs x goals and y assists to be classed as a great player... Just watch him play football and you'll know your answer Oh and the "world class" tag pisses me off too Might as well use fifa ratings while we're at it Edited October 19, 2020 by villa4europe 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gwi1890 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 2 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That's the thing though, people aren't watching the greatest 2 players in my lifetime, they're wheeling off which ever stat best suits their argument Why watch messi when you can simply dismiss him based on Ronaldo scoring more goals away from home in the knockout stages of the CL? There's no such thing as Jack needs x goals and y assists to be classed as a great player... Just watch him play football and you'll know your answer Oh and the "world class" tag pisses me off too Might as well use fifa ratings while we're at it His fifa ratings are poor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord Willard Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 3 minutes ago, villa4europe said: That's the thing though, people aren't watching the greatest 2 players in my lifetime, they're wheeling off which ever stat best suits their argument Why watch messi when you can simply dismiss him based on Ronaldo scoring more goals away from home in the knockout stages of the CL? There's no such thing as Jack needs x goals and y assists to be classed as a great player... Just watch him play football and you'll know your answer We're not debating if Jack is a great player, we all know he is. He is in the top 5 of the PL right now. The debate is if he is World Class, in that case he needs more goals and assists. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meregreen Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Best weaved his magic on pitches that were at times little better than ploughed fields. On today’s pitches he would have been virtually unplayable. Seen Pele, Cruyff, Ronald, Messi, Maradona etc etc. Still put George top of them all. The only thing that stopped him in the end, was his self destruct button and booze. Jacks our Best, can’t pay him a bigger compliment. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 9 hours ago, darrenm said: Ludicrously good. Even while clattered at every opportunity and every shot or key pass quickly blocked by an excellent defence, he still looks on another planet The backheel to Targett and the mazy run into the area for ross's shot at the end. Give over Jack. Your taking the piss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 8 minutes ago, Lord Willard said: We're not debating if Jack is a great player, we all know he is. He is in the top 5 of the PL right now. The debate is if he is World Class, in that case he needs more goals and assists. Then it's back to an argument over the semantics of what 'world class' means. Top 5 in one of the top leagues means he is an incredibly good player. Whether that means he is world class/elite/tier 1 etc etc is irrelevant as new phrases pop up every few years and whatever they're getting called it's completely subjective. Ronaldo and Messi have made these debates even more frustrating as they are two of the best players ever competing against each other throughout their primes and people are obsessed with comparing players with them. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982am Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 Personally I don't think there is any discussion to be had about him being world class anymore. Is he in the top 10 players currently in the Prem, Yes! Are there more than 10 world class players in the prem, yes! End of discussion. He hit world class gear status 12 months ago imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveAV1 Posted October 19, 2020 Share Posted October 19, 2020 1 hour ago, villa4europe said: sorry but im not a yank there's not a position in football I need backed up with stats, judge footballers by your eyes not their Wikipedia page, its the bane of modern football Whilst I agree that stats are possibly over emphasised these days they can’t be dismissed. Football at the top level and indeed most other sports continue to invest heavily on data analysis. Perhaps it’s just a trend, but I seriously doubt it. In fact give me 10 minutes and I’m sure I can find some stats to back this up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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