Judge Mental's Sexism and Misogyny Topic

[rjw63]

21 minutes ago, fightoffyour said:

Which is a man's right 'un?

Ear hole

[fightoffyour]

14 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Ear hole

Fitting

[mottaloo]

Does this mean the end of the KW gifs as well.....

[mjmooney]

36 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Just think of all the male role-models you were exposed to in your youth, and your gallantry is totally predictable.

James Stewart, John Wayne, Gary Cooper et al..

I assume this is a tongue in cheek remark, but... no, not really. It's not 'gallantry'. That generation was all about treating women with 'respect', because they were delicate and weak, and had to be protected. And, of course, that was for films only. What went on in people's homes rarely matched up to the fantasy. And this is 2023, not 1953. 

I'm not here to rehearse the history of the women's movement, surely we all know that story by now. I'm just suggesting that maybe VT is not as enlightened as we would like to believe, compared with the race, sexuality and general politics threads. 

 

[mjmooney]

1 minute ago, mottaloo said:

Does this mean the end of the KW gifs as well.....

I hope not. 

[bickster]

6 minutes ago, mottaloo said:

Does this mean the end of the KW gifs as well.....

Double entendres are risque not misogynistic

[tomav84]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

I wouldn't expect a 50/50 female 'quota' on VT (some might say 'why not?'), but I'd be really curious to know how many female 'lurkers' we have, who are reluctant to post, and if so, why. The few we had seem to have disappeared.

 

this could be a vicious circle. we know (or suspect) that the forum is 99.9% men, so we know that there's a small chance of offending any women. but perhaps as a result, women that want to post on here keep away

as with many topics on here, the people we really need the opinion of are just not here to give them

with misogyny and sexism, it's a much finer line than things like homophobia and racism (IMO). DHUTWU is a villatalk joke that everyone on here knows is not to be taken literally. however, alisha lehman (to my knowledge) is the first AVWFC player to have her own thread and when that thread was created it's clear it wasn't to discuss her footballing ability. that thread aside, i think we're OK generally on here. any women reading the forum might disagree of course.

[choffer]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

I wouldn't expect a 50/50 female 'quota' on VT (some might say 'why not?'), but I'd be really curious to know how many female 'lurkers' we have, who are reluctant to post, and if so, why. The few we had seem to have disappeared. 

I might be mis-remembering somewhat but I do recall a few female posters who were regular (although not prolific) posters on VT in the past. At least one cited "ladz bantz" as the primary reason for quitting the site. 

I guess if VT were a commercial venture, we'd be trying to advertise ourselves to the young women who are interested in our ladies team  but I don't think we'd be the most welcoming place for them. 

[PaulC]

5 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW) 

Don't know women can be as bad as men when they get together. Would agree though that the forum is not the place for it 

[chrisp65]

I don’t think we can excuse ourselves a bit of sexism as its a safe place with not too many wimmins. To my knowledge the total number of trans, disabled, Jewish, or Asian contributors is possibly in single digits, but we are pretty good at self policing that.

In fact, whilst writing that, I had a thought. Disparaging remarks on those groups might well be ‘policed’ by the mods and self appointed white hats. Now, this is in no way a critique of the mods but perhaps attitudes on some subjects are more indelible? 

Quote

The basic ethos of this site is to be welcoming to all and to treat other posters as you would like to be treated. This means no swearing, abuse, threats, insults, racism, sexism, homophobia 

So I guess, if a late night poster was chatting shit about the gays or whoever, would one of us report it? Now, if someone was doing sexist jokes… would that snitch also report that?

It is quite fascinating. 

 

[Designer1]

I think as with most of these tricky subjects we're a pretty enlightened bunch on here with decent moral compasses.

With the few very obvious exceptions of course.

 

[Seat68]

We do have casual racism, homophobia, anti trans and sexism. They are debated up to the point where the poster either strops off, denies that it is any of those isms or says that they expected that response from the woke Villarati.

[legov]

6 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW) 

Yes.

No.

[sharkyvilla]

Do women use internet message boards much in general?  I've always thought of it as a nerdy bloke thing.

[Seat68]

20 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Do women use internet message boards much in general?  I've always thought of it as a nerdy bloke thing.

The only female centric board that springs to mind is Mumsnet. 

[Mark Albrighton]

I think a lot is intended as innocuous. An example might be when a reaction gif is posted which features a woman who happens to be attractive and someone replies “would”. 

I don’t think it’s intended as being sexist and I am aware that I’m not perfect on this front, as such I likely won’t say something. It is kinda unnecessary to say you would happily have sex with some one. It’s sexist, it’s probably not malicious.

Some may remember the beginning of the Alisha Lehmann thread. You’ll have to remember it as there’s only remnants of it now as it was cleared up but the first half a dozen pages largely focused on her attractiveness (to put it mildly).

That being said, there was a significant push back from people who called out the inappropriateness of the comments. And bearing in mind, On Topic might not be as quick to be conscious of the issue as Off Topic might be.

I don’t want to seem like that therefore means it’s all fine on here, aren’t-we-great, and be all self congratulatory. Because it’s not. But I think there is at least an awareness of it and people on here will call out sexism if they feel they see it.

It’s just maybe for sexist posts to be called out, it requires it to be a lot more overt than it would need to be for an equivalent racist post.

[TheAuthority]

27 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

Do women use internet message boards much in general?  I've always thought of it as a nerdy bloke thing.

My wife uses some FB moms groups in the area. Swapping old baby stuff and finding out about things to take the kids too etc.

[bickster]

Just now, TheAuthority said:

My wife uses some FB moms groups in the area. Swinging....

I stopped reading here and went to look

[lapal_fan]

7 hours ago, mjmooney said:

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW) 

Someone's on the blob!

[tonyh29]

5 hours ago, mjmooney said:

I'm not sure I buy into this "Oh, it's only banter, we all talk like that down the pub, don't we lads?" line. It sounds like the Donald Trump "Grab 'em by the pussy? Ha ha, just boys' locker room talk, innit?" excuse. 

I'm supposed to be from the reactionary generation, but none of my male friends are remotely like that. We may have been slightly closer to it in our youth - but, as with racist jokes - we've managed to grow up, and genuinely reject those attitudes. ? 

 

I believe I’m the only one who’s mentioned banter down the pub so I think I’m safe to assume this is aimed at me even if you didn’t directly quote me.

I could have dodged the subject but gave a truthful response and went to great lengths to say the context in which it’s used …yet somehow you’ve decided to ignore most of what I said and equate this to comparing me to Donald Trump 

You’re just a bloke on an internet forum who doesn’t really know me so ultimately I guess it matters not if you “buy it “ or not but for the record I’ve never used phrases like grab them by the pussy and would never mistreat women,  or anyone elsefor that matter .. nor would my mates either fwiw.

as for your friends , no offence intended but from previous discussions you’re in a kinda weird bubble , everyone reads the guardian, everyone voted remain , none of them have ever smiled at a Tory etc , given the choice I think I’d rather have a night out with my more flawed mates , it’s sounds like it would be much more fun  

 

Edited July 21, 2023 by tonyh29