Judge Mental's Sexism and Misogyny Topic

[bannedfromHandV]

Uuurrrmmm, I get theres a lot of anger amongst the women folk right now but a 6pm curfew for men?

 

I think the Green Party may have just lost a few potential voters.

Edited March 12, 2021 by bannedfromHandV

[lapal_fan]

As has been said a million times, I hate walking behind women and often do the things in Seat's poster just to try and allay any fear a woman may have.

But curfewing anyone  is a stupid proposal, men or women. 

The other things I've seen on social media get my back up, things like "rather than telling women not to go out at dark, why not tell boys not to be violent", like that doesn't happen to anyone growing up, "be a dickhead Keith, attack women, make them feel scared".  One thing I do agree with is cat calling should stop and whatnot, because it makes you look like a knob and it's obviously uncomfortable for the target, among other stupid shit knobhead men do to women - get with the times. 

Another thing I've seen which slightly irritates me "men don't know what it's like to have to cross the road or stick to well lit routes to avoid men" - yes we (I) **** do, thanks - I'd call that basic survival and common sense.  I cross the road to avoid people all the time.  I avoid dark places at night, I walk quicker if I have to, run if I have to or do whatever it takes for me to feel safe.  I don't see that argument as women specific to be honest, although it probably affects them more. 

Women absolutely should feel safe anywhere, but if they think it's only women who feel anxious or unsafe outside then I think that's wrong.  

I think it comes down to just some people are bad people - the arrested guy is a 40 year old police officer isn't he?  I mean what chance do we have if he is guilty of this?  

I don't know the answer or solution (I imagine there isn't one), but I know some of the arguments are pretty silly.  

It seems like social media is again at the forefront of a stupid argument, which is somehow gaining traction - shut it down, we're not mature enough for it. 

[lapal_fan]

33 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

As has been said a million times, I hate walking behind women and often do the things in Seat's poster just to try and allay any fear a woman may have.

But curfewing anyone  is a stupid proposal, men or women. 

The other things I've seen on social media get my back up, things like "rather than telling women not to go out at dark, why not tell boys not to be violent", like that doesn't happen to anyone growing up, "be a dickhead Keith, attack women, make them feel scared".  One thing I do agree with is cat calling should stop and whatnot, because it makes you look like a knob and it's obviously uncomfortable for the target, among other stupid shit knobhead men do to women - get with the times. 

Another thing I've seen which slightly irritates me "men don't know what it's like to have to cross the road or stick to well lit routes to avoid men" - yes we (I) **** do, thanks - I'd call that basic survival and common sense.  I cross the road to avoid people all the time.  I avoid dark places at night, I walk quicker if I have to, run if I have to or do whatever it takes for me to feel safe.  I don't see that argument as women specific to be honest, although it probably affects them more. 

Women absolutely should feel safe anywhere, but if they think it's only women who feel anxious or unsafe outside then I think that's wrong.  

I think it comes down to just some people are bad people - the arrested guy is a 40 year old police officer isn't he?  I mean what chance do we have if he is guilty of this?  

I don't know the answer or solution (I imagine there isn't one), but I know some of the arguments are pretty silly.  

It seems like social media is again at the forefront of a stupid argument, which is somehow gaining traction - shut it down, we're not mature enough for it. 

Quoting myself because after re-reading it reads like I don't give a **** about the problem, when in fact I do.  

My problem is probably frustration that anyone should have to feel unsafe.  I mean, do we really need lessons in how not to hurt, rape, be violent to other people?  It's mental.

Just be kind to each other and stop being massive pricks.  The fact a police officer potentially did this crime is even more angering and enraging.  

People in general are alright, but **** hell there are a lot of bastards around.  

We have really good education in this country, mandatory education.  Education that billions around the world are envious of and yet we still see **** ups who are ignorant, lazy arseholes who throw that opportunity away everyday and don't want to learn - ignorance is bliss, until legally it isn't an excuse.  

It's indicative of the system/culture we live in and as we've seen from history - there's no perfect system.  We're a violent species and you won't "coach" that out of everyone, even with all of the opportunities afforded to us.  

Keep reminding yourselves that we too, are animals and as we can see in every living creature, every ecosystem and in every nook and cranny around the entire space rock we're floating around on, it's survival of the fittest and no amount of education will stop those feelings and compulsions in every single one of us as sad as that is.  But then I guess, if we don't bring it to light, then we aren't fighting it and that too is a problem.

Edited March 12, 2021 by lapal_fan

[chrisp65]

People get very literal don’t they.

Yet the old slogan ‘try not to rape or murder women’ didn’t appear to be working.

 

 

 

 

[bannedfromHandV]

17 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

People get very literal don’t they.

Yet the old slogan ‘try not to rape or murder women’ didn’t appear to be working.

 

 

 

 

Hmmm.....seems to work well enough for 99.9% of men........

[chrisp65]

1 minute ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Hmmm.....seems to work well enough for 99.9% of men........

One woman every three days says hi!

Or at least they would, if they hadn’t been murdered by a man.

Now is not the time to get pissy about raising a little awareness. 

[lapal_fan]

20 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

One woman every three days says hi!

Or at least they would, if they hadn’t been murdered by a man.

Now is not the time to get pissy about raising a little awareness. 

[tomav84]

22 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

One woman every three days says hi!

Or at least they would, if they hadn’t been murdered by a man.

Now is not the time to get pissy about raising a little awareness. 

for me, by all means more awareness is required, but the cynic in me says it won't do a damn thing. someone that wants to attack and kill any other person be it a man or woman, is going to do it...regardless of how many campaigns, how much education etc. it takes a certain character to do it. no idea what the answer is but no one should feel unsafe in any situation whether it's walking home or otherwise.

throwing the book at this latest scumbag would probably help. a lenient sentence would be disastrous

[lapal_fan]

14 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

for me, by all means more awareness is required, but the cynic in me says it won't do a damn thing. someone that wants to attack and kill any other person be it a man or woman, is going to do it...regardless of how many campaigns, how much education etc. it takes a certain character to do it. no idea what the answer is but no one should feel unsafe in any situation whether it's walking home or otherwise.

throwing the book at this latest scumbag would probably help. a lenient sentence would be disastrous

As they occasionally say on the internet;

This. 

[bannedfromHandV]

59 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

One woman every three days says hi!

Or at least they would, if they hadn’t been murdered by a man.

Now is not the time to get pissy about raising a little awareness. 

Ah okay yeah, let’s come up with a nice catchy slogan and some billboards to eradicate certain peoples insatiable desire for sex and violence. That’s defo going to work.

[LondonLax]

15 minutes ago, tomav84 said:

for me, by all means more awareness is required, but the cynic in me says it won't do a damn thing. someone that wants to attack and kill any other person be it a man or woman, is going to do it...regardless of how many campaigns, how much education etc. it takes a certain character to do it. no idea what the answer is but no one should feel unsafe in any situation whether it's walking home or otherwise.

throwing the book at this latest scumbag would probably help. a lenient sentence would be disastrous

Campaigns/education etc do change the general social dynamic though, even if they probably aren't going to change the psychopath in the group. But I think everyone would agree things are not what they once were when it comes to gender issues so that change is definitely coming through. 

On a similar vein there has been a recent push in high schools (particularly all boys high schools) in my hometown of Sydney to try and get teenage boys attitudes around women to shift a little away from thinking of them as potential trophy conquests to actually thinking of them as fellow humans.  

This speech from a school prefect at one of the boys schools sort of sums up the potential shift in attitude:

Quote

There is so much I want to talk to you about, so much I want to show you about this incredible school, so many lessons I have learnt that I want you to hear. But today, boys, my speech will be one with an unfamiliar tone. A far more serious one. Today is different.

As you’re all aware, there is a petition going around on social media which includes the testimonies of Sydney girls who have been victims of sexual assault. Our school features heavily … too heavily… once again.

Despite the regular, valuable and powerful talks we have received about consent and respect over the years, sadly, it appears that these speeches haven’t had the intended and crucial impact. I’ve thought incredibly hard about why – and to be frank, I’m still not quite sure what the real answer is.

So today, I’m here to talk to you as a peer, as a mate, as a Cranbrookian, as someone who goes out with some of you boys, and someone desperate to make change. This time, I hope you will listen.

I would also like to acknowledge that there have been times when I’ve heard about disgusting behaviour and not done anything about it, times when I’ve tolerated boys referring to women in derogatory ways … times when I’ve stood by. However, as I’ve grown up, I’ve become a far better person and learnt from my past behaviour and made an honest attempt to fix it. I do believe that as I am now, I practise what I will preach – as so many of the boys in this room also do.

I’m also not going to be arrogant and say that there is one cause for this problem and in the next few minutes I will make a speech that will entirely fix the endemic issue of sexual assault. But, in our case, at our age, at Cranbrook, I do think there is a very specific and damaging attitude many of we boys have that is one of the key roots of this issue. This is it:

I cannot tell you how many times I’ve been to a party or gathering and had someone come up to me looking irritated, angry at something. I will always ask, “What’s up? What’s going on with you?”

To which that person will respond, “Mate, Phoebe is such a tease!”

“Oh really? Why’s that?”

“I was talking to her all night, right. We were laughing, dancing together, she even touched my leg at one point. Like come on, right? But before she was about to leave, I went to hook up with her and she pulled away! I can’t believe she led me on the entire night when there are so many other chicks I could’ve been getting with!”

Sound familiar? That sort of thing is said all. The. Time. And recently I’ve spent a lot of time thinking about why?

It’s because everyone in this room goes to an all-boys school. In year 8 or 9 you’ll probably start meeting girls at gatherings and parties. But these girls aren’t the people you’re looking to have
lunch with on a Sunday, are they? They’re not the ones you would want to hang out with after school like I do with my mate Lachy. You wouldn’t study with them for example or play sport together, you wouldn’t have dinners with their family when your parents are away. No. They’re people you see once a week. From the hours of 7-11 on a Saturday night. In a completely artificial
environment.

You might have spent the Friday lunch the day before discussing which girl you wanted to hook up with and which one your mate had his eyes on. Maybe you sent the girl a text on the Saturday morning to let her know you’re interested. You’d most likely go to the “gatho” with the mindset that you’re there to hook up with as many girls as you can, or maybe just the “fittest” one … just so you could tell your mates.

You wouldn’t care what the girl’s interests were or what she was passionate about, what kind of music she liked or whether she made you laugh, because as I said, you see her once a week, you weren’t looking to be her mate. “Chicks aren’t there to be your friend, they’re a means to end, a conquest, another dash on your hook-up tally, the topic of a vulgar conversation on a Monday morning with the boys.”

For too many of we men, especially from the years of eight to 10, women are completely and shamelessly over-sexualised – mere objects of our desires, and a vehicle for validation or popularity amongst our year group. “Barnt mate, I got with four chicks on the weekend when you got with one.”

That’s why, when you ask a girl to go around the back and she’s obviously hesitant, giving you no reason to think that the situation is consensual, you pressure her, you persuade her, you try desperately to convince her, and maybe, just maybe, you’ll end up ruining a young woman’s life.

I ask one thing from you boys. And that is to properly acknowledge what I’ve said. I beg that you refuse to leave this gym and laugh with the mate beside you about how dumb it is that you’re being spoken to, once again, about how to respect women.

Don’t let yourself agree with the bloke who at recess argues that this kind of thing doesn’t occur at Cranbrook, that the girl who started the petition is some “stupid feminist” out to ruin the reputation of our school. Don’t allow yourself to slip into complacent denial by disregarding this situation as just a bunch of hysterical girls making things up or Sydney Morning Herald journalists with vendettas against private schools. Don’t lie to yourself. Don’t make excuses.

Instead, identify this sexist and reductive attitude within yourself, within the boys you go out with. Change the way you view women. Change it.

That Phoebe girl who the boy called a tease, who apparently led him on, she was being polite, friendly, she saw that conversation as maybe the start of new friendship. You boys need to think the same way. The fact we go to an all-boys school means that, during your years at school, a lot of you might not have the privilege to form close friendships with girls outside of parties. Likely, you will continue to only see them on Saturday nights. That is absolutely normal.

But when this Saturday night comes around and you go out with your school mates to see some girls, at least you will have acknowledged how grossly you may have mischaracterised them. It is crucial you recognise this. That acknowledgement, like the one I made a couple years ago – that identification of your own foul attitudes, changes everything.

Boys, sadly, it should go without saying: women are just as interesting as you, just as smart, just as funny, have just as many insights, are just as impressive, are just as good value. You don’t need a sister or mother to understand this. Women are people just like you. People to get to know. People to love. People to be friends with.

Don’t deprive them of this truth. Thank you.

https://www.smh.com.au/education/our-boys-treatment-of-girls-has-been-disgusting-cranbrook-prefect-pleads-for-respect-20210225-p575us.html

 

[lapal_fan]

31 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Ah okay yeah, let’s come up with a nice catchy slogan and some billboards to eradicate certain peoples insatiable desire for sex and violence. That’s defo going to work.

This could go either way to be honest  ;

[chrisp65]

I can’t believe how blinkered this is.

I’m not suggesting a billboard advert will stop a psycho murdering someone.

**** sake, a very different, larger demographic giving push back on not being shitty to women than when it was let’s not be shitty to black people or lets not be shitty to gays. Fascinating.

 

 

[lapal_fan]

16 minutes ago, chrisp65 said:

I can’t believe how blinkered this is.

I’m not suggesting a billboard advert will stop a psycho murdering someone.

**** sake, a very different, larger demographic giving push back on not being shitty to women than when it was let’s not be shitty to black people or lets not be shitty to gays. Fascinating.

 

 

Just to be clear, mine was a joke.. 

[dAVe80]

Think reading this I'd go back to something very similar to what I said in the sexism thread. Rather than a bunch of blokes of a football message board decide what should be done, and who women should and shouldn't be afraid of, how about we listen to the people it's happening to, take it on board, and support it? 

Want to make a woman feel safer? Don't shut her down when she tells you her story. Yeah it isn't all men. Yeah most of us won't go and commit horrendous crimes against women. We have to understand though that the ones that do murder and rape are men. So how do women stay away and keep safe from those who do, if our response to their anguish is just to shrug, and say, well it's not me doing it, so stop going on about it, and making me feel bad? 

[lapal_fan]

16 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

Think reading this I'd go back to something very similar to what I said in the sexism thread. Rather than a bunch of blokes of a football message board decide what should be done, and who women should and shouldn't be afraid of, how about we listen to the people it's happening to, take it on board, and support it? 

Want to make a woman feel safer? Don't shut her down when she tells you her story. Yeah it isn't all men. Yeah most of us won't go and commit horrendous crimes against women. We have to understand though that the ones that do murder and rape are men. So how do women stay away and keep safe from those who do, if our response to their anguish is just to shrug, and say, well it's not me doing it, so stop going on about it, and making me feel bad? 

Go get some to join VT then, me laddo! 

This is a football forum with no limits on who joins, just happens that it's mostly blokes, this is in the news, so we're talking about it.

No one is not supporting the notion that women shouldn't have a problem with the majority of rapes/victim crimes being women. 

[dAVe80]

14 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Go get some to join VT then, me laddo! 

This is a football forum with no limits on who joins, just happens that it's mostly blokes, this is in the news, so we're talking about it.

No one is not supporting the notion that women shouldn't have a problem with the majority of rapes/victim crimes being women. 

You're missing the point. I didn't say don't talk about it. We 100% should be. It's good to see, and we should do it with all our male peer groups. What I'm saying is, don't tell the victims how to feel, don't tell them how to deal with it, and don’t disassociate yourself from the issue. And when I say that, I don't mean you personally, I mean all of us, me included. 

Edited March 12, 2021 by dAVe80

[lapal_fan]

31 minutes ago, dAVe80 said:

You're missing the point. I didn't say don't talk about it. We 100% should be. It's good to see, and we should do it with all our male peer groups. What I'm saying is, don't tell the victims how to feel, don't tell them how to deal with it, and don’t disassociate yourself from the issue. And when I say that, I don't mean you personally, I mean all of us, me included. 

Absolutely agree.  Sorry if I missed the point.   

[dAVe80]

8 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

Absolutely agree.  Sorry if I missed the point.   

No worries dude. 

[mjmooney]

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW)