Judge Mental's Sexism and Misogyny Topic

[mjmooney]

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW) 

[Seat68]

I dont object on the whole if people want to talk like that, no issue as I can see that broadly, its in jest. For me though its not me, I don't think I would be comfortable using language or espousing views that didn't really fit in with how I think. I am not perfect, but I would feel weird talking like that.

[bickster]

FFS Calm down love!

[sidcow]

43 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

Well, we have a racism thread, an LGBTQ+ thread, and one specifically on transgender issues. 

But (unless I've missed it) not one on plain old sexism and male attitudes to women. So here it is. 

With a few notable dissenters, the most vocal VT OT posters would probably be categorised as left of centre and socially progressive. But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

The language routinely used goes unchallenged - the legendary 'DHUTWU', 'I'd ruin that', 'impressive rack', 'mouth, arse and mouth again, if I had any left', etc., etc. 

Did stopping the 'lovely ladies' thread go far enough? At a time when women's football is at an all-time high of popularity, do we ever stop to wonder why there are so few female contributors to VT (active ones, at any rate)? 

I'm an old, white, male football fan, so hardly the riot grrrl demographic. But I have to admit that I sometimes feel uncomfortable about some of the language used on here. 

Controversial? Overreaction? Or just food for thought? 

Go at it. (KW) 

I fully respect women.  It's the reason why I own one.

[rjw63]

DHUTWU multiple times

 

[tonyh29]

10 minutes ago, Seat68 said:

I dont object on the whole if people want to talk like that, no issue as I can see that broadly, its in jest. For me though its not me, I don't think I would be comfortable using language or espousing views that didn't really fit in with how I think. I am not perfect, but I would feel weird talking like that.

On the whole I agree with you , but I do use it within a context of my environment 

I'm still close to my school mates after all these years , we grew up thick and poorly educated and even though some of us have evolved a little  , they aren't people I'd ever turn my back on because i don't like how they voted once or because they think Phil Collins a musical genius 

so , we have a mate nicknamed Shagger ( though I don't use it mainly as I don't call anyone by nicknames)  , We'll be down the pub and be impressed by the rack on the barmaid   , there would be a comment about what you'd like to do to her and twice on Sunday .  We don't get pronouns and all that other shit .. we laugh at videos of women playing football where they make Heskey look prolific in front of goal and Scottish goalkeepers look world class 

sexist and misogynist  ..without doubt  , but here's the rub  .. we say it within the confines of a group having a bit of fun and a laugh , we aren't posting it on Twitter , abusing women and none of us mean it  , its just beer talk and more amusing than sitting around talking about our periods and inner feelings ...  I wouldn't cheat with the barmaid , and the way my knees hurt I doubt I could manage twice on a Sunday either  ..Ok I'll never watch women's football I just have zero interest in it and its also shit to the point  I'd rather watch a female comedian , assuming my local hardware store was out of pitchforks for me to stick in my eyes 

Its just blokes doing blokey things in the confines of a bloke environment.  I see it as harmless , same way that I'd watch Ricky Gervais or Jimmy Carr and laugh along to inappropriate stuff ..the key bit is I KNOW its inappropriate and I also know its not a true reflection of me (or my mates)  and we wouldn't behave like that in any other environment .

I accept it can lead to darker things , in my IT days I carried out some work inside a domestic abuse shelter and seen the other side of this behaviour towards women  , it was harrowing and a real eye opener , but i think that's more on the abusers than people using phrases like DHUTWU and a clear distinction needs to be made there .

 

[rjw63]

Next thing you know, my avatar will be banned, and I didn't even make it!

[nick76]

1 hour ago, mjmooney said:

But is casual sexism the last bastion of VT's unreconstructed male football fan 'blokiness'? 

I don’t know about the last bastion.  I read an article about Ginger jokes going too far, then there is a movement about small people.  I guess it’s how far society goes because there are so many differences between all of us that if offence to something is taken or someone is too disrespectful to a person or group of people then it becomes a discussion point.

[tonyh29]

5 minutes ago, rjw63 said:

Next thing you know, my avatar will be banned, and I didn't even make it!

 

[tonyh29]

6 minutes ago, nick76 said:

I don’t know about the last bastion.  I read an article about Ginger jokes going too far, then there is a movement about small people.  I guess it’s how far society goes because there are so many differences between all of us that if offence to something is taken or someone is too disrespectful to a person or group of people then it becomes a discussion point.

way way back , I remember watching an episode of "Game On " with a mate of mine who has ginger hair  and the phrase "Ginger Representative for Wellingborough"  was used about 18 times .. it was a tad uncomfortable as he was clearly sensitive about it ... I guess there is an element of everything can be funny , until the subject is nearer to home ... luckily he's got old now and gone grey so Ginger jokes are back on the agenda .

 

It depends in what context people think these jokes have gone too far  .. If I've paid to go see a comedian and he tells jokes no matter how offensive then I think that's fair game ..if I was down the pub and some loudmouth was abusing a person for their height, hair colour etc , then I'd be having some words with him ( assuming he's not 6 foot 4 and full of muscles) 

 

 

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

way way back , I remember watching an episode of "Game On " with a mate of mine who has ginger hair  and the phrase "Ginger Representative for Wellingborough"  was used about 18 times .. it was a tad uncomfortable as he was clearly sensitive about it ... I guess there is an element of everything can be funny , until the subject is nearer to home ... luckily he's got old now and gone grey so Ginger jokes are back on the agenda .

 

It depends in what context people think these jokes have gone too far  .. If I've paid to go see a comedian and he tells jokes no matter how offensive then I think that's fair game ..if I was down the pub and some loudmouth was abusing a person for their height, hair colour etc , then I'd be having some words with him ( assuming he's not 6 foot 4 and full of muscles) 

 

 

I was actually rewatching Game On a couple of months ago when I was baby sitting my nephews….friggin hilarious.  I agree, I love Jimmy Carr and I think that’s fine although I know some people don’t agree.  I agree with you about the person in the pub that’s just not going to happen because people wouldn’t stand for it.  Mooney creates a good opening post, with all these ‘isms’ there are clear black and white areas but there is a lot of grey areas and that depends on a persons individual viewpoint.  I just try and be good/respectful always….I do like a joke with friends and family though.

[MakemineVanilla]

Men always joke about things they are afraid of!

[nick76]

37 minutes ago, MakemineVanilla said:

Men always joke about things they are afraid of!

I love poo jokes…so I’m afraid of poo? No shit, Sherlock

[villarule123]

Is Loose Women, possibly the most sexist programme I've ever seen, still being filmed? 

[mjmooney]

I'm not sure I buy into this "Oh, it's only banter, we all talk like that down the pub, don't we lads?" line. It sounds like the Donald Trump "Grab 'em by the pussy? Ha ha, just boys' locker room talk, innit?" excuse. 

I'm supposed to be from the reactionary generation, but none of my male friends are remotely like that. We may have been slightly closer to it in our youth - but, as with racist jokes - we've managed to grow up, and genuinely reject those attitudes. 

But the point I was making is that VT is a public forum. I'm not having a go at @rjw63 for the fact that DHUTWU has become a beloved VT meme, just wondering why we seem to consider it (and some of the other phrases I quoted above) less offensive than (say) a racist or homophobic reference. 

I wouldn't expect a 50/50 female 'quota' on VT (some might say 'why not?'), but I'd be really curious to know how many female 'lurkers' we have, who are reluctant to post, and if so, why. The few we had seem to have disappeared. 

Maybe a few of our regulars would say "Well, it's not really for them, and this is one of the last refuges where we blokes can relax without being lectured about feminism". But just imagine if that was rephrased as "Why can't we have a place just for us white folks, without having to put up with blacks and asians". 

Is there a difference, really? 

 

[rjw63]

4 minutes ago, villarule123 said:

Is Loose Women, possibly the most sexist programme I've ever seen, still being filmed? 

It's not sexist, it's describing their clunges.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Wainy316]

Hey, well DHUTWU isn't gender specific.  I think I've seen a few people applying it to Alex Moreno 

[PussEKatt]

The reason that there are more males than females on VT is the same reason that there are more males than females at any football/soccer ground.They are not as interested as we are.

[fightoffyour]

28 minutes ago, Wainy316 said:

Hey, well DHUTWU isn't gender specific.  I think I've seen a few people applying it to Alex Moreno 

Which is a man's right 'un?

[MakemineVanilla]

28 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

I'm supposed to be from the reactionary generation, but none of my male friends are remotely like that. We may have been slightly closer to it in our youth - but, as with racist jokes - we've managed to grow up, and genuinely reject those attitudes.

Just think of all the male role-models you were exposed to in your youth, and your gallantry is totally predictable.

James Stewart, John Wayne, Gary Cooper et al..