Steven Gerrard

[Mark Albrighton]

6 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

I really don't see the need to. We are not hiring Smith back.

I think in part it’s because as it stands last season’s performance is the current bench mark. 

Comparing the performance of the current manager to his predecessor is the way folk try and gauge whether the club made the right decision and is moving in the right direction.

If we had picked up a few more wins since November, it probably wouldn’t be debated (or not nearly as much, anyway).
 

[Keyblade]

It's not been great, it's not been bad either. He deserves a chance to put it all together next season, but I'd be lying if I said this season wasn't underwhelming. 

That said, get a result against City, and it'll all be worth it.

[Vive_La_Villa]

1 minute ago, Keyblade said:

It's not been great, it's not been bad either. He deserves a chance to put it all together next season, but I'd be lying if I said this season wasn't underwhelming. 

That said, get a result against City, and it'll all be worth it.

Please god no!

[LondonLax]

We’ll give him a summer and the period up to the World Cup. If we’re still struggling around 14th by then though I suspect we’ll roll the dice for another manager.  

[Sam-AVFC]

4 minutes ago, VillaHatesMe said:

My friend, I'm not trying to diminish anything Smith did. I posted the numbers for his entire tenure, and was told by some they were meaningless. Then somebody asked what it would look like if we took his final 26 matches and compared them to Gerrard's first 26 since the squad level would be more even, so I did that. Nobody is trying to diminish anything Dean Smith did, or what the team did at the start of last season. 

I'm posting numbers, and it seems they're a Rorschach test. Everybody's seeing what they want to see in them and accusing me of doing something I'm not. I guess the lesson here is to stop posting.

That wasn't aimed at you specifically and I know it's that the discussions often go on until they end up in these places, rather than an agenda being pushed. 

[Sulberto21]

The reality is as has been mentioned by others — the board believe he is the next Elite manager/coach (call it what you want) . I.E they think he’ll become as good as Klopp, Conte etc. 

I don’t think he’ll get that far but he’ll probably get us in to the top half.

[Sam-AVFC]

8 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I think in part it’s because as it stands last season’s performance is the current bench mark. 

Comparing the performance of the current manager to his predecessor is the way folk try and gauge whether the club made the right decision and is moving in the right direction.

If we had picked up a few more wins since November, it probably wouldn’t be debated (or not nearly as much, anyway).
 

But the stats I quoted weren't comparing last season's results, they were based on 26 games which left out our great start to last season and included our shit one this year. Comparing ppg last season with Gerrard's so far completely changes that comparison.

Personally I think it's far too forensic for the first season anyway and I'm adopting a 'wait & see' approach. I'm not that arsed about a few hundredths of a point a game each way in a season we aren't going to achieve anything.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Sam-AVFC

[Mark Albrighton]

29 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

But the stats I quoted weren't comparing last season's results, they were based on 26 games which left out our great start to last season and included our shit one this year. Comparing ppg last season with Gerrard's so far completely changes that comparison.

Personally I think it's far too forensic for the first season anyway and I'm adopting a 'wait & see' approach. I'm not that arsed about a few hundredths of a goal a game each way in a season we aren't going to achieve anything.

So is it fair to say to your mind it’s impossible/pointless to compare the points return between the managers in this case? 

If include last season’s good half, it will be “Grealish, summer transfer window, pre season, his squad” comments to dismiss it.

For what it’s worth, I actually think the 26 game comparison doesn’t make Smith look too bad in relation to Gerrard’s mild improvement. He only had Grealish for 4 of them (some are of the opinion he could only manage with him in the team), he had Buendia et all still finding their feet (when they were available), and that final 26 games was generally derided. Despite all that, it’s not that massively different to what we’re doing under Gerrard. 
 

Ultimately I think the comparison says we’ve improved, a bit. Needs to better next season. 

Edit - I see your second paragraph about thinking it’s too early.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Mark Albrighton

[ender4]

28 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

The reality is as has been mentioned by others — the board believe he is the next Elite manager/coach (call it what you want) . I.E they think he’ll become as good as Klopp, Conte etc. 

I don’t think he’ll get that far but he’ll probably get us in to the top half.

If top half is 10th then that’s terrible for next season.  He’s only a few point off 10th as it is.    
 

The target next season has to be 7th and Europe and Gerrard will be judged by everyone (including the board and owners) on whether he achieves that or not.

[nick76]

31 minutes ago, ender4 said:

If top half is 10th then that’s terrible for next season.  He’s only a few point off 10th as it is.    
 

The target next season has to be 7th and Europe and Gerrard will be judged by everyone (including the board and owners) on whether he achieves that or not.

It’s a good point and maybe worth a thread on what people think our aim should be before even buying players.

[Vive_La_Villa]

I like his own confidence. 

[Tommo_b]

I think what’s being over looked a little here too is the league congestion,  last season we finished 11th, 6 points off 8th but 10 points above 12th.

Now this season we are 6 points off 8th but 1 point off 11th. 

Also another interesting note, Everton and Leeds finished 10th and 9th respectively last season, this season they sit in 16th and 18th. 

This season has been more evenly contested by all teams… except Man City and Liverpool. 
 

Edited May 21, 2022 by Tommo_b

[Mark Albrighton]

34 minutes ago, Tommo_b said:

I think what’s being over looked a little here too is the league congestion,  last season we finished 11th, 6 points off 8th but 10 points above 12th.

Now this season we are 6 points off 8th but 1 point off 11th. 

Also another interesting note, Everton and Leeds finished 10th and 9th respectively last season, this season they sit in 16th and 18th. 

This season has been more evenly contested by all teams… except Man City and Liverpool. 
 

Yep exactly this.

As you say, there was ten points between us in 11th and Newcastle in 12th. If you just look at league positions without the context of points, you’d assume Newcastle were in with a shout of a top half finish. The points total says otherwise.

To emphasise how big a point gap that is, there is currently 12 points between Wolves in 8th and Everton in 16th. Now considering Wolves supporters were briefly dreaming of champions league football and Everton have only just confirmed safety, it really demonstrates the difference in how the points have been distributed across the league.

 

Edit - because I didn’t mention Gerrard once there - I’m giving his tenure so far a tentative score of about 6 out of 10. I reckon he would agree.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Mark Albrighton

[DCJonah]

5 hours ago, VillaHatesMe said:

I've said numerous times on here that I didn't want them to hire Gerrard, nor am I confident that he's going to improve us going forward. I even said as much in the post when I posted the stats you then called shit. All I did was post some numbers that say, overall, the team has performed better under Gerrard in 26 Premier League matches than they did in the much larger sample size of Dean's time in the PL. I didn't make any proclamations about what the numbers meant, and even said that all that's going to matter is whether they improve next season.

Then you quote me and tell me the numbers are meaningless and later claim I have an agenda. I'm not looking to start an argument here, but from my point of view, the person shouting down any stats somebody posts that they don't agree with to tell them they're meaningless looks more like the person with an agenda.

I wasn't looking for an argument. I just think the stats you shared aren't really worth much. Maybe I said it in a harsher way than necessary but I think it was just the annoyance of so many different posts with so many selective statistics. 

 

[PaulC]

I think hes done ok and with another transfer window and a preseason i woukd expect a major improvement next season. Gerrard wont want to piddle around with mid table, i expect us to challenge top 6 next season. Not saying we will do it but we should be aiming for that.

 

[sheepyvillian]

7 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I wasn't looking for an argument. I just think the stats you shared aren't really worth much. Maybe I said it in a harsher way than necessary but I think it was just the annoyance of so many different posts with so many selective statistics. 

 

I've said it many times. Stats are so misleading and they have become the height of nerdism. 

[DaveAV1]

8 hours ago, Sulberto21 said:

If Pochettino is available I’d go and try and get him. With our resources he’d have us challenging for top 4 within a season or two. 

Newcastle the scum will be all over this as I know they’ll get rid of Howe regardless of backlash.

Im not against Gerrard - Pochettino is just better and more proven.

The thing is, if in our current position of trying to rebuild the team/club after years in the doldrums, we dump a manager, any manager, without giving him a fair chance, because a new and shiny manager comes along, that sends out a terrible message. We would, with some justification, be accused of being big time Charlies. Future potential managers may also think twice about joining us. If the sacked manager was high profile, with lots of support within the game and the media, rightly or wrongly the backlash would be huge. 
 

SG has done ok and admits himself that there is lots of room for improvement and I’m sure he includes himself in that too. He’s not an idiot, he knows he has to perform in an unforgiving industry. His bosses are very ambitious and targets will be set that he will be very aware of. Minimum top half finish with decent cup campaigns next season, otherwise his AVFC project will be ended. For the good of the club I hope he’s here for years. 

[AV82]

Right, I've changed my mind. In the absolute worse case scenario we will still have taken advantage of Gerrard's reputation to pull in some world class players. Here's hoping he can turn things around. A win against City would be great start.

[Farlz]

[sne]