Steven Gerrard

[HKP90]

24 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Agreed. You've got very negative people being selective to suit theirs. You've got the super positive having to try and talk down Smith or use a form table to suit theirs and the hypocrits who did the exact opposite last year but happy to do it now. 

Gerrards done an OK job and deserves time. But 14th is also a disappointment. I don't think it really requires any selective statistics. It seems pretty clear to me anyway. 

I think the last paragraph is probably a fair view, although I'm fairly optimistic that when we do get a better balanced squad this summer, which is not rocket science in our case, we'll see much better from most of the current players too. 

I seem to not fit into any of the current camps, in that I didn't think Smith deserved to go, but I also think SG is doing OK and I'm happy for him to crack on. 

[VillaHatesMe]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

It doesn't mean shit because like I said, it ignores all context and reality. It's just a baseless statistic to suit an agenda. 

 

What's my agenda?

[Sulberto21]

I’m in the “I’ll wait and see which players come in and where we’re at around the mid season break for the World Cup” camp.

I don’t care who the manager/head coach is as long as we win football matches and get up the table. The FA Cup would be nice too.  

He’s done some good things, some not so good things and some meh things.

I don’t know if he will succeed with us . For us success will be winning a cup and causing problems for the top 6 whilst finishing 7th. That’s got to be the first target. 

[DCJonah]

57 minutes ago, VillaHatesMe said:

What's my agenda?

It seems to be that Gerrard has clearly improved us because of his Premier league PPG compared to Smith. 

When in reality if you look at the squads available it's a nonsense comparison. 

Smith had a whole season of Wesley, Davis and Sammatta as strikers and Jed Steer and Nyland in goal. 

Of course there's going to be a difference when that period is included. It's a pointless statistic that doesn't take into consideration the context each manager finds themselves in.

[VillaHatesMe]

8 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

It seems to be that Gerrard has clearly improved us because of his Premier league PPG compared to Smith. 

When in reality if you look at the squads available it's a nonsense comparison. 

Smith had a whole season of Wesley, Davis and Sammatta as strikers and Jed Steer and Nyland in goal. 

Of course there's going to be a difference when that period is included. It's a pointless statistic that doesn't take into consideration the context each manager finds themselves in.

I've said numerous times on here that I didn't want them to hire Gerrard, nor am I confident that he's going to improve us going forward. I even said as much in the post when I posted the stats you then called shit. All I did was post some numbers that say, overall, the team has performed better under Gerrard in 26 Premier League matches than they did in the much larger sample size of Dean's time in the PL. I didn't make any proclamations about what the numbers meant, and even said that all that's going to matter is whether they improve next season.

Then you quote me and tell me the numbers are meaningless and later claim I have an agenda. I'm not looking to start an argument here, but from my point of view, the person shouting down any stats somebody posts that they don't agree with to tell them they're meaningless looks more like the person with an agenda.

[Vive_La_Villa]

33 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

I’m in the “I’ll wait and see which players come in and where we’re at around the mid season break for the World Cup” camp.

I don’t care who the manager/head coach is as long as we win football matches and get up the table. The FA Cup would be nice too.  

He’s done some good things, some not so good things and some meh things.

I don’t know if he will succeed with us . For us success will be winning a cup and causing problems for the top 6 whilst finishing 7th. That’s got to be the first target. 

I’d like to think this is the majority of fans. Optimism spreads and a strong start to the season is so important. 

[Vive_La_Villa]

Not sure where to put this but I’m very confident we will finish top 8 next season with Gerrard in charge. Happy to put a wager to a charity on that with anybody.

[Tomaszk]

10 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Not sure where to put this but I’m very confident we will finish top 8 next season with Gerrard in charge. Happy to put a wager to a charity on that with anybody.

Not interested in a bet but great to have that confidence.

It'll be great if we can get a strong start like 4 wins in 8 or something. I think we'll have two players at least who are signed to near-on start every game and we'll need them settled quickly.

Edited May 21, 2022 by Tomaszk

[Mark Albrighton]

51 minutes ago, VillaHatesMe said:

I've said numerous times on here that I didn't want them to hire Gerrard, nor am I confident that he's going to improve us going forward. I even said as much in the post when I posted the stats you then called shit. All I did was post some numbers that say, overall, the team has performed better under Gerrard in 26 Premier League matches than they did in the much larger sample size of Dean's time in the PL. I didn't make any proclamations about what the numbers meant, and even said that all that's going to matter is whether they improve next season.

Then you quote me and tell me the numbers are meaningless and later claim I have an agenda. I'm not looking to start an argument here, but from my point of view, the person shouting down any stats somebody posts that they don't agree with to tell them they're meaningless looks more like the person with an agenda.

I think you’re comparing an X amount of apples with a Y amount of oranges.

A smaller sample size can be misleading. As an extreme example, the PPG after Gerrard’s first half a dozen games would be 2, would you consider a comparison after that amount of games? No, of course not.

Also, these stats are not taking into account the vast majority of these players were thrown together with many having little to no experience of premier league football.

They have since gained that experience which the current management can benefit from. To put it simply, I would rather have the Tyrone Mings in May 2022 than the Tyrone Mings of September 2019.

There isn’t going to be a comparison between the two managerial records that won’t cause some quibbling. If I HAD to make a comparison on the stats alone, I’d probably do Gerrard’s first 26 matches v Smith’s final 26 matches. That’s not perfect either, but I think it’s fairer than comparing the squad now with how the 19/20 squad was, whom basically everyone knew would be battling relegation.

[VillaHatesMe]

7 minutes ago, Mark Albrighton said:

If I HAD to make a comparison on the stats alone, I’d probably do Gerrard’s first 26 matches v Smith’s final 26 matches. That’s not perfect either, but I think it’s fairer than comparing the squad now with how the 19/20 squad was, whom basically everyone knew would be battling relegation.

That's a good idea, so I've done just that.

Dean's L26: 1.12

Gerrard's F26: 1.35

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, VillaHatesMe said:

That's a good idea, so I've done just that.

Dean's L26: 1.12

Gerrard's F26: 1.35

Is it a good idea though? It conveniently leaves out our great first half of last season, the same criticism levelled at nick when postulating about a bounce for Gerrard.

[Mark Albrighton]

1 minute ago, VillaHatesMe said:

That's a good idea, so I've done just that.

Dean's L26: 1.12

Gerrard's F26: 1.35

Yep, not dissimilar to what you had. 

So an improvement, but then there was a consensus from some it was dreadful and we were massively underperforming  towards the end of Smith’s reign so any improvement shouldn’t come as too much as a surprise.

I think that works out as 8 points difference over a 38 game period.
 

[VillaHatesMe]

1 minute ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Is it a good idea though? It conveniently leaves out our great first half of last season, the same criticism levelled at nick when postulating about a bounce for Gerrard.

It's a good idea in the sense that Dean's last 26 matches feature roughly the same squad as the one Gerrard has, with the most significant difference being Dean had Jack Grealish for a portion of those matches while Gerrard has had Buendia/Coutinho in that role.

[VillaHatesMe]

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Yep, not dissimilar to what you had. 

So an improvement, but then there was a consensus from some it was dreadful and we were massively underperforming  towards the end of Smith’s reign so any improvement shouldn’t come as too much as a surprise.

I think that works out as 8 points difference over a 38 game period.
 

An improvement, but not nearly enough of one to get where this club insists it's going. So, back to what I've said all along -- my hidden agenda! -- I'm firmly in the skeptical about Gerrard boat. But I'm also skeptical about Purslow and Lange, not just the manager. 

[Mark Albrighton]

2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Is it a good idea though? It conveniently leaves out our great first half of last season, the same criticism levelled at nick when postulating about a bounce for Gerrard.

Like I say no one is going to be happy. 

We could wait until Gerrard has managed 49 matches (last season + Smith’s games this season)…but I can already hear the inevitable march of the “It was all Grealish” crowd to argue against that stat. 

You’re simply not going to find a way to compare without people either nitpicking or cherry picking results. 

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, VillaHatesMe said:

It's a good idea in the sense that Dean's last 26 matches feature roughly the same squad as the one Gerrard has, with the most significant difference being Dean had Jack Grealish for a portion of those matches while Gerrard has had Buendia/Coutinho in that role.

The start of the season was also a mess disrupted by injury and our panic signings taking a while to gel. He had a bad start to this season and the board decided to fire him.

I don't see why we can't just say we had a good season last year without trying to chop it up in any possible way that diminishes what Smith did. 

Incidentally I don't really understand why every conversation gets dragged back to some sort of factional dispute either. Gerrard can be judged on his own successes and failures without whataboutism.

[Sam-AVFC]

1 minute ago, Mark Albrighton said:

Like I say no one is going to be happy. 

We could wait until Gerrard has managed 49 matches (last season + Smith’s games this season)…but I can already hear the inevitable march of the “It was all Grealish” crowd to argue against that stat. 

You’re simply not going to find a way to compare without people either nitpicking or cherry picking results. 

I really don't see the need to. We are not hiring Smith back.

[useless]

Next season I would like a trophy and would happily take another league finish like this season's to win a FA Cup or even the League Cup. In years to come a trophy win would be far more memorable than finishing seventh or eighth or whatever, in fact winning a major trophy would surely be our biggest achievement in almost thirty years, if it was the FA Cup probably the biggest since winning the European Cup.

[useless]

I want a blasted trophy and if it's Gerrard's face reflecting back at us from it then so be it, any face will do so long as they just get it done.

[VillaHatesMe]

6 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said:

The start of the season was also a mess disrupted by injury and our panic signings taking a while to gel. He had a bad start to this season and the board decided to fire him.

I don't see why we can't just say we had a good season last year without trying to chop it up in any possible way that diminishes what Smith did. 

Incidentally I don't really understand why every conversation gets dragged back to some sort of factional dispute either. Gerrard can be judged on his own successes and failures without whataboutism.

My friend, I'm not trying to diminish anything Smith did. I posted the numbers for his entire tenure, and was told by some they were meaningless. Then somebody asked what it would look like if we took his final 26 matches and compared them to Gerrard's first 26 since the squad level would be more even, so I did that. Nobody is trying to diminish anything Dean Smith did, or what the team did at the start of last season. 

I'm posting numbers, and it seems they're a Rorschach test. Everybody's seeing what they want to see in them and accusing me of doing something I'm not. I guess the lesson here is to stop posting.