nick76 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 4 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I do find it amusing that there's a few dead set against selecting a set amount of games, who did just that last year to justify their opinion even though we ended with 55 pts. Yep just hypocritical. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 Whatever set of stats you use the bottom line is they aren't bad enough to sack the head coach. We will know if he is on the right track or not early next season. We can only hope his additions and time with the guys in pre season transform us. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AvonVillain Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 18 minutes ago, Zatman said: Yep last season can only be judged on the 2021 results but when you judge Gerrard 2022 results your just stat picking Dean Smith was sacked because of our 2021 form. SG will surely need to hit the ground running next season to not have the same fate for his 2022, I would've thought. Obviously I hope it does all click..... otherwise I guess we'll be back with this odd running argument of just how statistically shit are we: terribly shit or averagely shit? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, hippo said: Whatever set of stats you use the bottom line is they aren't bad enough to sack the head coach. We will know if he is on the right track or not early next season. We can only hope his additions and time with the guys in pre season transform us. I agree, I’ve never said he should be sacked. People will then ask why I’m discussing it? Because I want improvement, he’s been brought in to take us to the next level. So we can either analyse what he’s done so far or speculate what he can do in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, nick76 said: I agree, I’ve never said he should be sacked. People will then ask why I’m discussing it? Because I want improvement, he’s been brought in to take us to the next level. So we can either analyse what he’s done so far or speculate what he can do in the future. It's the future bit that bothers me. But we can't really judge it - until he's done it . Given that 2 top notch additions in Jan and a winter break improved us not one iota in terms of winning matches - I'm not hopeful that more additions and a few weeks on the training pitch will transform us. But we just have to hope for the best 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 2 minutes ago, hippo said: It's the future bit that bothers me. But we can't really judge it - until he's done it . Given that 2 top notch additions in Jan and a winter break improved us not one iota in terms of winning matches - I'm not hopeful that more additions and a few weeks on the training pitch will transform us. But we just have to hope for the best Yep. It’s almost why I’m not as concerned for the immediate future because I believe him and Lange will buy top notch additions if our league position doesn’t hinder us too much. Gerrard can help attract them. My concern, although it’s early in his tenure, is the coaching the best out of the players or utilising them the best. I haven’t seen that this season. So I think we’ll buy well I believe, I’m just concerned we won’t get the best out of them based on what we are getting out of our current players. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 (edited) I don’t get what people are talking about. Gerrards being judged on all of the games that he has been in charge of and that would have us 8th. Who’s stat picking? If anything it’s those against Gerrard that totally dismiss the good start as it’s a new manager bounce. This for and against Gerrard debate is madness. Edited May 21, 2022 by Vive_La_Villa 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 14 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yep. It’s almost why I’m not as concerned for the immediate future because I believe him and Lange will buy top notch additions if our league position doesn’t hinder us too much. Gerrard can help attract them. My concern, although it’s early in his tenure, is the coaching the best out of the players or utilising them the best. I haven’t seen that this season. So I think we’ll buy well I believe, I’m just concerned we won’t get the best out of them based on what we are getting out of our current players. Well if that ends up being the case Gerrard will get sacked and the job will be very appealing for managers looking for work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I don’t get what people are talking about. Gerrards being judged on all of the games that he has been in charge of and that would have us 8th. Who’s stat picking? If anything it’s those against Gerrard that totally dismiss the good start as it’s a new manager bounce. This for and against Gerrard debate is madness. The stat picking was always used against last management team. Especially as our 2020 form in 2020/21 seems to have been discarded by some Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 I do wonder if a thrashing on live tv tomorrow could change management opinion on the manager. The Liverpool loving media wont be happy and Sky would be pissed the last day excitement will be ruined Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Zatman said: I do wonder if a thrashing on live tv tomorrow could change management opinion on the manager. The Liverpool loving media wont be happy and Sky would be pissed the last day excitement will be ruined I doubt it. I read somewhere that CP is a die hard Liverpool fan - he lived in that area for many years. Explains why he has such a hard on for Stevie G. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
david-avfc Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 The “official league table” since Gerrard took over might have us in X position, but to me we’ve been just as inconsistent as we were under Smith. Win a couple and then go 3, 4 or 5 without winning. The 5 game run in March / April was very telling as we lost 4 in a row and drew one which included a few mediocre teams and some very poor performances- much like Smith’s final 5 games. Again, both streaks were preceded by some good results - 3 wins for Gerrard (including 2 high scoring games) and thrashing Everton and then beating Man U away for Smith. In terms of points per game, if Smith had one just one more win the PPG of both managers would be virtually the same which is indicative of just how inconsistent we have been under both managers and that the sample size of just 11 games under Smith is probably too small to extrapolate out to a comparison of a full season Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 5 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Well if that ends up being the case Gerrard will get sacked and the job will be very appealing for managers looking for work. I agree. We were very appealing around the time he got the job, imo the worst case scenario is that we still will be be very appealing when he’s replaced, it will just be time lost and progression stalled. Hopefully he will progress us though and we will be far away from the worst case scenario and improving closer to European places. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, david-avfc said: The “official league table” since Gerrard took over might have us in X position, but to me we’ve been just as inconsistent as we were under Smith. Win a couple and then go 3, 4 or 5 without winning. The 5 game run in March / April was very telling as we lost 4 in a row and drew one which included a few mediocre teams and some very poor performances- much like Smith’s final 5 games. Again, both streaks were preceded by some good results - 3 wins for Gerrard (including 2 high scoring games) and thrashing Everton and then beating Man U away for Smith. In terms of points per game, if Smith had one just one more win the PPG of both managers would be virtually the same which is indicative of just how inconsistent we have been under both managers and that the sample size of just 11 games under Smith is probably too small to extrapolate out to a comparison of a full season It’s interesting that the final nail in the coffin for Smith was 10 points in his final 11 games. If we lose tomorrow, Gerrard’s final 11 games of this season he’ll have 9 points. 1 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, nick76 said: It’s interesting that the final nail in the coffin for Smith was 10 points in his final 11 games. If we lose tomorrow, Gerrard’s final 11 games of this season he’ll have 9 points. This is not a defence of Gerrard at all but you do tend to get poorer form from ‘midtable’ teams around the end of the season. Not in all cases of course but teams like palace and Southampton always seem to come to mind. If Gerrard had this kind of form at the start of the season we’d be firmly in the relegation zone and the owners would seriously be considering his dismissal. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 3 minutes ago, nick76 said: It’s interesting that the final nail in the coffin for Smith was 10 points in his final 11 games. If we lose tomorrow, Gerrard’s final 11 games of this season he’ll have 9 points. Yeah but if you only take the 10 games we've won under him we have 30 points from those 10 games which is great 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 For some reason I find Gerrard gets more excuses on here than other managers and I am not sure why except maybe he was a big name player. Funny thing is Gerrard has said himself many times he doesn't want excuses 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaParkAvenue Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, Zatman said: For some reason I find Gerrard gets more excuses on here than other managers and I am not sure why except maybe he was a big name player. Funny thing is Gerrard has said himself many times he doesn't want excuses Isn’t that what usually happens when people choose sides on forums, any excuses will do. I’m still annoyed about the club appointing people with relatively low level qualifications to key roles in a financially huge project. That goes for Smith, Lange and Gerrard. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said: Isn’t that what usually happens when people choose sides on forums, any excuses will do. I’m still annoyed about the club appointing people with relatively low level qualifications to key roles in a financially huge project. That goes for Smith, Lange and Gerrard. Agreed. We are spending gargantuan amounts of money on a massive project but we have very inexperienced people managing the footballing sides of it. Feels very odd and a bit of a handicap against the sides we are trying to catch up to. Smith I get as we were in the Championship, and they let him go once it wasn't working. Bringing in Gerrard felt odd even thou he is a familiar name due to his playing career. And with the amount of money we are paying him you gotta think we could have gone another route. He's here now thou so it is what it is. Hopefully we'll improve a lot next season. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted May 21, 2022 Share Posted May 21, 2022 You could argue that Smith, Lambert, Martin O’Neil, David O’Leary, Remi Garde, Sherwood. McCliesh, John Gregory, Brian Little all has little/varying experience and none of the higher level experience Gerrard has gone through or the managers he has played under… so managerial experienced perhaps plays a part, perhaps it doesn’t. Gerrards appointment bought in Digne and Coutinho, that’s huge already. 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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