useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 14 minutes ago, useless said: If we want to become a succesful club then winning the first trophy is the most important thing, people look down on the league cup but if we were to win it it would be massively important. I think that loads of people aren't agreeing with this says it all, we've become a bunch of losers happy not win any trophies. People complain about the so called big six but then play straight into their hands by being happy for us not to win anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerner's Driver Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I think we will have to spend big just to stay mid-table to be honest. If they don't or can't, or the new signings just don't work out, it's more likely we will be back down near the bottom next season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I think people need to get used to the idea that it is likely that we finish in 8th or 9th place for the next year or two. Which is fine considering where we were not long ago. I'll take mid table obscurity as long as we look like we are building on this season's earlier successes. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 I feel like we're in a false position at the moment, our true level is probably closer to the teams below us like Palace, Newcastle and Brighton. So I don't think it's going to be as easy to move from eleven to top half challenging for top eight as people imagine, it's going to require massive improvements to the team, genuine quality, not just a few players here and there that happen to be flavor of the month. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, useless said: I feel like we're in a false position at the moment, our true level is probably closer to the teams below us like Palace, Newcastle and Brighton. So I don't think it's going to be as easy to move from eleven to top half challenging for top eight as people imagine, it's going to require massive improvements to the team, genuine quality, not just a few players here and there that happen to be flavor of the month. I feel like we are in a false position too. Had we had Grealish fit we would have been much higher. I'd love to know in what basis you think we should have LESS points? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted May 16, 2021 Author VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 2 minutes ago, useless said: I feel like we're in a false position at the moment, our true level is probably closer to the teams below us like Palace, Newcastle and Brighton. So I don't think it's going to be as easy to move from eleven to top half challenging for top eight as people imagine, it's going to require massive improvements to the team, genuine quality, not just a few players here and there that happen to be flavor of the month. I'd say it was a bit of both - a bad window and we go backwards, a good window and we go forwards - fortunately I think our owners will do the business. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2021 Progression in the league is very difficult - the top four are pretty much in place, then you have Leicester, Spurs and Arsenal to chase. I think we're in a group with Everton, Leeds and one or two others that will be battling for a top half place. 9th would be middle of that group and perfectly acceptable 10th is by no means a bad season. I think we'll aim for a top ten finish and see if we can do a bit more in the cups. Progression might be more visible in terms of our strength in depth. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 (edited) I said we're in a false position based on our good start, which was about momentum as much as anything else, Sheffield United were similar last season. In a way it's why I think people should be thankful for eleventh, because it could have been much worse, if that first game against Man City hadn't have been called off and they beat us comfortably on the first game of the season then could have damaged our cofidence and set the tone for a completely different season. And by the same token I agree about Grealish, if he'd have stay fit then we probably wouldn't be far off where West Ham are now, but again that would also be in part thanks to the momentum we were able to gain at the start of the season. Edited May 16, 2021 by useless 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
One For The Road Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 1 minute ago, useless said: I said we're in a false position based on our good start, which was about momentum as much as anything else, Sheffield United were similar last season. In a way it's why I think people should be thankful for eleventh, because it could have been much worse, if that first game against Man City hadn't have been called off and they beat us comfortably then we might have recovered and we could have had a very good season. And by the same token I agree about Grealish, if he'd have stay fit then we probably wouldn't be far off where West Ham are now, but again that would also be in part thanks to the momentum we were able to gain at the start of the season. That's cherry picking of the highest order in my view. You don't get to discount our good start and then lend more weight to our bad finish. Especially as we haven't used our star player for most of that run. You could easily say we are in a false position because we started so well and then lost one of the best players in the league for 3 months, a player far more important to us and the way we play than other star players at other clubs. We are 11th because that's where we deserve to be, given the unfortunate loss of our captain for such a long time. Otherwise, we'd be much higher according to the stats. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Teams end up in false positions all the time because of momentum, that's why a team can be brilliant one season and not looks so good the next because pre season disrupts that momentum. I think last season we were probably also in a false position as well, that time our league position made us look worse than we probably were. The truth is we're probably somewhere between where last season's table suggests and this seasons'. Put it this way if we started next season with the same team and every team had the same players, I wouldn't expect us to finish any higher than eleventh, even if Grealish was to stay fit all season, if you were to tell me that Grealish would miss a third of the season then I'd be seriously worried about relegation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 And by the way in saying our true postion is probably lower than eleventh I'm actually praising Smith for getting us in the table where he has. And also warning that it's going to be difficult to improve on it next season, going to need some very good signings and not just players who's names have become buzzwords from their names being repeated over and over again, we need genuine quality whether that comes from spending big money on proven players at the highest level, or finding lesser known players capable of improving us. At this stage I don't think we've much reason to doubt our recruitment team, so hopefully they can do a good job at improving us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zhan_Zhuang Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Improve on our stinking midfield and then we have an opportunity for top eight. For Dean Smith to continue Villa must finish seventh or eighth. He has got to sort out the midfield, desperately. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted May 16, 2021 Moderator Share Posted May 16, 2021 50 minutes ago, Zhan_Zhuang said: For Dean Smith to continue Villa must finish seventh or eighth. He has got to sort out the midfield, desperately. So we'd need to finish above at least one of Spurs, Arsenal or Leicester as an absolute minimum or we should sack him? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S-Platt Posted May 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 Improvement on our points total and a serious shot at the FA Cup will do for me. We have won some games against the big boys and lost some against the dross. I think if we beat the teams we expect and compete against the better teams most people will be happy next year. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HongKongVillan Posted May 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 Mid table challenging for may be 7th to 8th may be what I would think we can aim for. Let's not forget we now have a decent youth setup, if we can develop and keep hold of some of these lot, then we would have that foundation to drive towards achieving even further up. Long term buying 100m won't be the solution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 15 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: So we'd need to finish above at least one of Spurs, Arsenal or Leicester as an absolute minimum or we should sack him? Honestly this is my worry next year. That more and more people start to put these demands on us. I'm hopeful our owners, whilst ambitious, are also realistic in the kind of timescale needed to achieve these things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AVTuco Posted May 16, 2021 VT Supporter Share Posted May 16, 2021 I'm not expecting much from next year. We'd do well if we repeated this season's success. That's because 2021 we've been going downwards ans are relegation material currently. A couple good acquisitions and we can fight for tenth or thereabouts. Higher than that would require heavy overperformance. Wonder what our owners think of that? Do they see it as progress? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sulberto21 Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 We're we are in the league because we deserve to be here. I don't think we're in a false position. On our day we can compete we have enough danger men to win lots of matches. Next season I just want the FA Cup. Go all out for it whilst solidly finishing 9-12th again. Depends on the signings if we can get higher than 9th which will be very difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
useless Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Truth be told next season will probably be another non eventful season in the league unless we somehow manage to find ourselves in a relegation battle. Our best chance of any kind of success or excitment is by winning either the league cup or the fa cup, either of which would go down as the club's biggest success since the last time we won a trophy over twenty years ago. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GENTLEMAN Posted May 16, 2021 Share Posted May 16, 2021 Lets hope the players and management are not as gutless and fearful as some in here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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