Team shape, tactics and personnel

[andym]

On 09/03/2023 at 18:47, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

Arsenal fans are some of the most entitled out there.

In Emery's full season there, Arsenal were the 3rd highest scorers in the league,

They finished 5th, (one place higher than Wenger did the season before) but go and look at the squad he had, it was really quite poor, plus bad attitudes from Ozil etc. 

He brought through likes of Saka, Martinelli and Smith-Rowe who are now key players.

That summer they undermined him in transfer market (bought Pepe when he wanted Zaha) and it was never going to end well.

In summary, don't listen to Arsenal fans.

 

[Woody1000]

There will be a moment in time in the relatively near future, it might be August, it might be November or December, but this is all going to click for us and we will consistently look like we could play this way in our sleep. It’s repetition, we will learn to play these patterns until we can do it with our eyes closed. I must admit it’s a bit boring to watch at times because it is slow - we are almost walking through it at times, but it will quicken and we will become comfortable doing it.

[The_Steve]

9 minutes ago, Woody1000 said:

There will be a moment in time in the relatively near future, it might be August, it might be November or December, but this is all going to click for us and we will consistently look like we could play this way in our sleep. It’s repetition, we will learn to play these patterns until we can do it with our eyes closed. I must admit it’s a bit boring to watch at times because it is slow - we are almost walking through it at times, but it will quicken and we will become comfortable doing it.

It's not even 6 months yet. Change will come, especially in the summer window. Every bit of progress takes time. He's working magic already, we just need to get through the teething process.

[TheMightyVillans]

Would like us to try a lineup like this before the season ends.

 

                         Martinez

Konsa        Carlos      Mings       Moreno

Mcginn       Luiz         Kamara     Buendia

                    Duran      Watkins

[macandally]

9 hours ago, Adman said:

For me, I just don't like the pedestrian pace and time wasting from the first minute, but I 100% support the manager.  Just thought we should have got into them today as they played away in Europe on Thursday.  

You do realise that “pedestrian pace” is deliberate to pull on the press?  If you look, it is to draw teams onto us in numbers then play through into the spaces created behind.

The slow pace is taking advantage of the “Villa Park” syndrome where the fans bay at their team to “get into them”, to find themselves sliced open and a goal down.

Not sure how some people aren’t seeing this, we have been undone by it for years! 

[jacketspuds]

Give me moments of magic over methodical, calculated build up play any day of the week.

I’d much rather be in a relegation scrap, but with Coutinho pinging a 30-yarder once a season, than having a confident and composed team of players that look like they’re enjoying themselves.

Edited March 13, 2023 by jacketspuds

[Delphinho123]

I must admit, the way we play makes me nervous but I love the way Emery is sticking to it and the marked improvement in players like Luiz, McGinn, Watkins and Buendia is great to see.

Talking of the press, it’s clear like others say, we’re luring the opposition onto us with the intention of playing a direct pass to feet in behind their midfield where the likes of Buendia and Bailey can get on the ball, turn and have space to attack their back line. We also then try and push a fullback on and the opposition then have a problem. 
The problem we had yesterday was that West Ham were well aware of our game plan and weren’t pressing all that much. Which is fine, but it means the tempo of the game is a lot slower and a bit more ‘cat and mouse’.

So far, I’d rate Emery as a 10/10 appointment. He’s doing fantastic things with an average squad in my opinion. This coming transfer window is absolutely huge. 

[gwi1890]

It doesn’t help that the commentary team constantly brings words like “pedestrian” up and  suggests we lack tempo when Man City and other scum 6 do it it’s called controlled possession but when we do it’s pedestrian.

[TRO]

13 hours ago, gwi1890 said:

I’m really enjoying the style of play and the identity we’re building which is also a sustainable one , there’s more than one way we can beat a team though we can patiently build attacks as well as hitting teams on the counter.

I'm liking the harder to play against style, but that is tempered when playing the top teams, who seem to exploit our defending, and remind us of our frailties.

I'm still in nervy mode,generally, particulalry  with set pieces and playing out from the back, even though, I am happy for him to continue with it.....The highline also encourages long balls and pacy/ spirited opponents, which leaves me edgy.

Edited March 13, 2023 by TRO

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, TRO said:

I'm liking the harder to play against style, but that is tempered when playing the top teams, who seem to exploit our defending, and remind us of our frailties.

I'm still in nervy mode,generally, particulalry  with set pieces and playing out from the back, even though, I am happy for him to continue with it.....The highline also encourages long balls and pacy/ spirited opponents, which leaves me edgy.

High line seem to working though West Ham were caught offside 5 times as were Palace in the previous match. The whole letting moves play out before putting the flag up  makes it nervy as well as wasting time.

[TRO]

20 minutes ago, gwi1890 said:

High line seem to working though West Ham were caught offside 5 times as were Palace in the previous match. The whole letting moves play out before putting the flag up  makes it nervy as well as wasting time.

we was lucky with the Zaha off side and the Cornet one too.

I think there is always a trade off, whatever system is played......I have never been comfortable telling a manager which system to play....its their call, and they live or die by it....so I accept it, even though it makes me nervous.

I look at the success of those systems to see whether they work or not, and having the players to maximise whatever is chosen, is key.

They were playing lots of long diagonal balls in, which was uncomfortable for some of our players, and the 12 corners, were a strategic threat too.

I agree about the delay in declaring the offside, its an irritation, and I'm not sure why it was adopted.

 

Edited March 13, 2023 by TRO

[andym]

Is it even that high of a line we play? It's not like we are up near the halfway line all the time. 

I always find it interesting how getting caught out a few times from a higher line is really focussed on, yet Steve Bruce style sitting back, allowing the opposition to get loads of balls into the box and relying on last ditch defending and goalkeeping is not.

In fact, that often gets praised as being committed defending, yet great communication and concentration to catch opposition players offside is seen as lucky.

Same with the playing out from the back; a couple of goals given up because we've messed up doing it, but i'd bet more goals are conceded from just smashing the ball back to the opposition to attack again.

There's a reason the better managers and teams play out from the back and try and squeeze the opposition up the pitch with a higher line.

[MWARLEY2]

So apart from the win against Palace with the OG we have scored in every game   and even better apart from Southampton we have scored from open play in every game . No reliance on set pieces. Good to see 

[TRO]

On 12/03/2023 at 16:06, sidcow said:

We have a winger problem and a big one. 

Important we somehow get money for Traore and Bailey in the summer and rebuild our wings. 

The other important things is......to make sure we don't do it again.....we seem to have a blind spot, for wingers.

[TRO]

8 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

I must admit, the way we play makes me nervous but I love the way Emery is sticking to it and the marked improvement in players like Luiz, McGinn, Watkins and Buendia is great to see.

Talking of the press, it’s clear like others say, we’re luring the opposition onto us with the intention of playing a direct pass to feet in behind their midfield where the likes of Buendia and Bailey can get on the ball, turn and have space to attack their back line. We also then try and push a fullback on and the opposition then have a problem. 
The problem we had yesterday was that West Ham were well aware of our game plan and weren’t pressing all that much. Which is fine, but it means the tempo of the game is a lot slower and a bit more ‘cat and mouse’.

So far, I’d rate Emery as a 10/10 appointment. He’s doing fantastic things with an average squad in my opinion. This coming transfer window is absolutely huge. 

Trouble is, when the opposition, don't bite......The goal keeper can get done for time wasting....Emi has 5 now.

Vinnie Jones never got that many..lol

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

12 hours ago, TheMightyVillans said:

Would like us to try a lineup like this before the season ends.

 

                         Martinez

Konsa        Carlos      Mings       Moreno

Mcginn       Luiz         Kamara     Buendia

                    Duran      Watkins

Swap McGinn and Buendia though IMO.

Have them on their strong sides.

[sidcow]

10 minutes ago, TRO said:

....we seem to have a blind spot, for wingers.

Rather like the Tories

[Tom13]

I must be in the minority. Don't find our play boring at all.

[DJBOB]

I think you'll just continue to see struggles because of our personnel and lack of elite wing play on either side and Buendia and Ramsay performing only 5 or 6/10 most of the time in the half spaces when opponents like West Ham afford us the ball and sit deep in their own box.

There's an element of 'boring' play there. In the 3box3, your goal is to pull your opponent out and get them shifted to one side, quickly transition the ball to the other wing so the winger has 1v1 space to either slip in Ramsay or Buendia in the space between the FB/CB or find a cut back by driving them to the line. But Bailey's completely shot of confidence and Moreno just got here. In time and with some purchases, I think this will improve but Moyes cynically camped West Ham in their own box instead of pressing too high (like Leeds) and trying to sit on top of our CB's. It will work sometimes for the opponent (like Leicester) but it is playing into our hands to try and pressing Mings and Konsa hard. 

[MaVilla]

13 hours ago, TheMightyVillans said:

Would like us to try a lineup like this before the season ends.

 

                         Martinez

Konsa        Carlos      Mings       Moreno

Mcginn       Luiz         Kamara     Buendia

                    Duran      Watkins