Team shape, tactics and personnel

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

It's a results business but the beauty of football is the random and spectacular can override the supposed result at any time. How many times have we seen undeserved wins, losses, and anywhere in between.

By any statistical measure, we outplayed Palace but would that have mattered if Zaha was a few inches more onside for their first goal or if they had won a random penalty? You can also flip it and say that the game would've been dead if Ollie had put the ball a hair to the right for a goal at the end of the first half.

The game plan was correct and I maintain the game plan was correct against Leicester as well. We just need better execution (not gift them 3 goals) and for Unai to have more time to understand which combinations work best.

I get that.

and maybe, which players he can trust, too.

I was not at all happy, or convinced with the Leicester game, so its no point me pretending different.....do I think we still have that in us? sadly I do...because we are still capable of being caught on the ball, and losing it.

You might say most mid table teams do, but if we want to improve, and move up the table, its things like that we have to minimise.

Basics have to be got right, before the more sophisticated stuff, is dealt with.

[Bazmonkey]

On 07/03/2023 at 20:07, TRO said:

I get that.

and maybe, which players he can trust, too.

I was not at all happy, or convinced with the Leicester game, so its no point me pretending different.....do I think we still have that in us? sadly I do...because we are still capable of being caught on the ball, and losing it.

You might say most mid table teams do, but if we want to improve, and move up the table, its things like that we have to minimise.

Basics have to be got right, before the more sophisticated stuff, is dealt with.

Spot on...its failing at the basics that make the mistakes.  

We have shown that we can play well.....pass...move.....and score.....but...and its big BUT...too many times our own failings have cost us....and we have made some team look better than they simply by not doing these basics....both in defence and going forward.

[nepal_villan]

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

[tomsky_11]

7 minutes ago, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy?

Yes, I'd think so.

Feels pretty similar to the way Brighton build and the analysis I've seen of that: hold the ball and wait for opposition to step out of shape, with the aim to find move the ball around them into space centrally, and go from there.

It does rely on a bit of patience and picking the right moments to then up the pace. Once the space does open up and we spot the gaps to exploit we can rip through teams quite quickly.

I'd hope once fans understand it's part of the strategy and not players being pedestrian or unsure what they are doing, rather quite the opposite, and that if results are maintained at the current excellent level, then they get on board. Because can definitely hear the frustration in the Holte from some that don't get it, or maybe do but just want us to lump it forward anyway.

[MaVilla]

2 hours ago, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

Not sure i have seen anything to show that Emery will destroy my love for football, tbh i quite like his style, although tbh we havent see his actual style at Villa, just a partial style.

From what i can tell, Emery specifically builds slowly from the back, with the intention of pulling the opposition team around, drawing the press and creating space in behind, or space/gaps wide or in the midfled etc.

Once these gaps are created, he likes his team to progress quickly and technically towards the goal, exposing the drawn press, holes or gaps created from the slower build up, hopefully leading to chances.

Its one of the main reasons i can see is looking at technically gifted players for helping build from deep (ie: central defenders, full backs, central mids etc), but then skilful, athletic, rapid players up front and from wide to help us exploit the gaps and space crested by our build up play.

I could be wrong, but thats how i see it.

[TRO]

6 hours ago, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

its growing pains.....we have been so used being ripped open, playing open football and losing.....a style that has us winning takes some getting used to.

[Kiwivillan]

6 hours ago, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

Yeah we want flair over results

[DJBOB]

17 hours ago, MaVilla said:

Not sure i have seen anything to show that Emery will destroy my love for football, tbh i quite like his style, although tbh we havent see his actual style at Villa, just a partial style.

From what i can tell, Emery specifically builds slowly from the back, with the intention of pulling the opposition team around, drawing the press and creating space in behind, or space/gaps wide or in the midfled etc.

Once these gaps are created, he likes his team to progress quickly and technically towards the goal, exposing the drawn press, holes or gaps created from the slower build up, hopefully leading to chances.

Its one of the main reasons i can see is looking at technically gifted players for helping build from deep (ie: central defenders, full backs, central mids etc), but then skilful, athletic, rapid players up front and from wide to help us exploit the gaps and space crested by our build up play.

I could be wrong, but thats how i see it.

Spot on. And maybe that's why Arsenal fans on the back of watching Wenger teams for so long didn't like Unai. Instead of possessing the ball in the opponent half and trying to pass it in, Unai wants to bring the opposition team into our own half and then attack the space in behind quickly. A dangerous cat and mouse game but may involve long lulls where it's not wave after wave of attack. 

I think it will be a while before fans are happy with it (if ever). There's always a lot of consternation if having the ball in your own half. Can't score if the ball is in our own box, right? People will prefer wave after wave of attack and entertaining up and down matches, but it's a results business at the end of the day and unless you have the resources of the top clubs in the world, you have to work with the talent you have.

[Made In Aston]

20 hours ago, nepal_villan said:

Is the slow buildup from the back part of our strategy? We seem to be very pedestrian compared to other teams that play out of the back. If it is part of our strategy then we are in for some really dull football. I remember an Arsenal friend tell me that Emery will destroy your love for football.

Its pretty similar concept to tikataka football. Stretch / bore the opposition into submission then strike quickly when they are napping. 

[CVByrne]

On 04/02/2023 at 23:42, IrishVilla10 said:

 

Having re-read this and then thought about how we set up against Palace. The key change was Bailey for Buendia and Cash for Young. What that did was allow either full back to get forward to provide width with one of the wide mids (Ramsey or JJ) moving forward to join Buendia as a 2nd 10 behind Watkins while the other mid held the rest defensive shape with Luiz/Kamara. 

So Konsa Mings and Luiz Kamara McGinn and Digne JJ Watkins Buendia Cash as front 5.  This is a more defensive set up as it trades a wide forward in Bailey for another midfielder in Buendia which in turn means one of the two wide mids (JJ/McGinn) end up as a 3rd man in midfield. It means the space behind an attacking full back is covered better to stop counter attacks while over on the other side of the pitch where there is less danger the other full back can provide width

[DJBOB]

3 hours ago, CVByrne said:

Having re-read this and then thought about how we set up against Palace. The key change was Bailey for Buendia and Cash for Young. What that did was allow either full back to get forward to provide width with one of the wide mids (Ramsey or JJ) moving forward to join Buendia as a 2nd 10 behind Watkins while the other mid held the rest defensive shape with Luiz/Kamara. 

So Konsa Mings and Luiz Kamara McGinn and Digne JJ Watkins Buendia Cash as front 5.  This is a more defensive set up as it trades a wide forward in Bailey for another midfielder in Buendia which in turn means one of the two wide mids (JJ/McGinn) end up as a 3rd man in midfield. It means the space behind an attacking full back is covered better to stop counter attacks while over on the other side of the pitch where there is less danger the other full back can provide width

Prudent against Palace who have pacy wide players who can beat you 1v1 wide but not good a good number 10 to deliver in the final third. 
 
They’ve missed Gallagher this season. 

[TRO]

23 hours ago, DJBOB said:

Spot on. And maybe that's why Arsenal fans on the back of watching Wenger teams for so long didn't like Unai. Instead of possessing the ball in the opponent half and trying to pass it in, Unai wants to bring the opposition team into our own half and then attack the space in behind quickly. A dangerous cat and mouse game but may involve long lulls where it's not wave after wave of attack. 

I think it will be a while before fans are happy with it (if ever). There's always a lot of consternation if having the ball in your own half. Can't score if the ball is in our own box, right? People will prefer wave after wave of attack and entertaining up and down matches, but it's a results business at the end of the day and unless you have the resources of the top clubs in the world, you have to work with the talent you have.

When the style produces positive results, the naysayers, will come round.

The objective is to win, how you do it, is for conjecture.

[sidcow]

We have a winger problem and a big one. 

Important we somehow get money for Traore and Bailey in the summer and rebuild our wings. 

[DJBOB]

West Ham played like they were away and packed their own box. Think we were very bright in the first half as Emery went back to the 3box3 and Moreno had the run of it in the first half.

Bogged down and we lack that snappiness around the box. Needed better from Bailey especially but also Buendia and Ramsay. I said it before but I don’t think Ramsay fits Unai’s set up well but I don’t really know where else he can play. Really needs to improve his range of passing. 
 
Hope West Ham go down. Horrible set up and team to watch.

[gwi1890]

Another game with 60% possession 

[Pinebro]

I'm all in for the slow build up, possession football.

As long as we get results I don't care what the style is.

Those "Kick it long, get it forward" crowd needs to pipe down and accept that is never how Emery is gonna play.

[WHY]

For all the slow build up we’ve scored in every game under the gaffer, it’s like he knows what he’s doing. Some of our fans ffs, can only assume they haven’t seen some of the absolute rubbish I’ve seen over the years!

[Zhan_Zhuang]

8 minutes ago, Pinebro said:

I'm all in for the slow build up, possession football.

As long as we get results I don't care what the style is.

Those "Kick it long, get it forward" crowd needs to pipe down and accept that is never how Emery is gonna play.

 

1 minute ago, WHY said:

For all the slow build up we’ve scored in every game under the gaffer, it’s like he knows what he’s doing. Some of our fans ffs, can only assume they haven’t seen some of the absolute rubbish I’ve seen over the years!

In the post-match ratings thread 45% (61 posters) voted the Manager's performance as average.

I was quite surprised by this figure and admittedly it is slightly worrying many think this.

Surely there are some of us who see a philosophy and improvement, it was reflected in our recent games I would have thought.

[WHY]

1 minute ago, Zhan_Zhuang said:

 

In the post-match ratings thread 45% (61 posters) voted the Manager's performance as average.

I was quite surprised by this figure and admittedly it is slightly worrying many think this.

Surely there are some of us who see a philosophy and improvement, it was reflected in our recent games I would have thought.

Most of them are here and now fans and will most likely dwindle away over the years. We haven’t had a style of play for years imo, he’s trying to change this. Even under Smith most of the time it was about getting the ball to Jack. Emery doesn’t have the luxury of Jack so he’s trying to involve everyone in his game plan. This way when we do eventually lose players to the top 4 we aren’t left back at square one. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

If we had more quality, our " style " of play would look better.

Again, I'm admittedly bored at times, many times you can also see how the passage of play is meant to go, but a misplaced pass, poor reading from a team mate or a bad touch often break it down.

In the same vein, one moment, we can be seemingly doing sod all with the ball, then suddenly have a killer pass, a quick interplay change up top and a chance or goal.

The positive is that I very much see the plan.

Missing a key, if not our currently most influential player and still getting a result is also a plus, as frustrating as not getting 3 points is.

In games like this, I do miss a couple of our fringe players, I think someone like Coutinho could have provided the edge for a winner today.

Onwards and upwards! Well, more likely sideways in 11th but we get the drift.