Team shape, tactics and personnel

[catanzaro]

6 minutes ago, KMitch said:

You need to keep in mind too that massive change in team culture doesn't happen overnight.  It needs to be drip fed over time to see serious results.  We're going to make mistakes.  We're going to lose games.  We're going to be frustrated as fans at times, but we've already seen glimpses of just how awesome Emeryball can be.  The payoff will be worth it.

Also, some players are going to take longer to learn and adapt to this style of football than others.  Take for example Ollie's form since Emery came to the club.  He is a very quick learner and is starting to look like the player we hoped he would be for us when we spent all that money on him a few seasons back.  Mings is another very quick learner himself, considering he didn't even play as a central defender until he came to Villa and ended up in the England squad the following season.  He's mentioned how Emery's coaching staff is teaching him more about the CB position than he thought was possible and has spoken about how much nuance there is with Emery's tactics.  It's paying off and he's already improved a lot, especially in possession. Other players will take a lot longer to adapt to this new way of playing and approach to the game.  The only way they're going to learn is by playing, making mistakes, and learning from them. 

Just saying "we can't afford to make mistakes" and switch back to a low block and hoof ball because a lot of our team hasn't built from the back before is just going to delay the learning process.  It would be different if we were Dyche's Burnley and had a back line of thuggish cloggers trying to do this, but we have a world cup winning keeper, 3 international defenders, and Konsa, who is a serviceable enough backup, but will be dropped for a massive upgrade in Diego Carlos when he's fully fit again.  These players can do this, but they will need time to figure it out themselves.  

Great post and I totally agree with you.. I think Cash is an example of a player who has taken longer to figuring it out.. but you can see he is starting to get it..

[Talldarkandransome]

40 minutes ago, KMitch said:

You need to keep in mind too that massive change in team culture doesn't happen overnight.  It needs to be drip fed over time to see serious results.  We're going to make mistakes.  We're going to lose games.  We're going to be frustrated as fans at times, but we've already seen glimpses of just how awesome Emeryball can be.  The payoff will be worth it.

Also, some players are going to take longer to learn and adapt to this style of football than others.  Take for example Ollie's form since Emery came to the club.  He is a very quick learner and is starting to look like the player we hoped he would be for us when we spent all that money on him a few seasons back.  Mings is another very quick learner himself, considering he didn't even play as a central defender until he came to Villa and ended up in the England squad the following season.  He's mentioned how Emery's coaching staff is teaching him more about the CB position than he thought was possible and has spoken about how much nuance there is with Emery's tactics.  It's paying off and he's already improved a lot, especially in possession. Other players will take a lot longer to adapt to this new way of playing and approach to the game.  The only way they're going to learn is by playing, making mistakes, and learning from them. 

Just saying "we can't afford to make mistakes" and switch back to a low block and hoof ball because a lot of our team hasn't built from the back before is just going to delay the learning process.  It would be different if we were Dyche's Burnley and had a back line of thuggish cloggers trying to do this, but we have a world cup winning keeper, 3 international defenders, and Konsa, who is a serviceable enough backup, but will be dropped for a massive upgrade in Diego Carlos when he's fully fit again.  These players can do this, but they will need time to figure it out themselves.  

Great post, we will have ups and downs but they are learning something new, as are we. Everyone needs patience, I think we'll see the benefits next season

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, KMitch said:

You need to keep in mind too that massive change in team culture doesn't happen overnight.  It needs to be drip fed over time to see serious results.  We're going to make mistakes.  We're going to lose games.  We're going to be frustrated as fans at times, but we've already seen glimpses of just how awesome Emeryball can be.  The payoff will be worth it.

Also, some players are going to take longer to learn and adapt to this style of football than others.  Take for example Ollie's form since Emery came to the club.  He is a very quick learner and is starting to look like the player we hoped he would be for us when we spent all that money on him a few seasons back.  Mings is another very quick learner himself, considering he didn't even play as a central defender until he came to Villa and ended up in the England squad the following season.  He's mentioned how Emery's coaching staff is teaching him more about the CB position than he thought was possible and has spoken about how much nuance there is with Emery's tactics.  It's paying off and he's already improved a lot, especially in possession. Other players will take a lot longer to adapt to this new way of playing and approach to the game.  The only way they're going to learn is by playing, making mistakes, and learning from them. 

Just saying "we can't afford to make mistakes" and switch back to a low block and hoof ball because a lot of our team hasn't built from the back before is just going to delay the learning process.  It would be different if we were Dyche's Burnley and had a back line of thuggish cloggers trying to do this, but we have a world cup winning keeper, 3 international defenders, and Konsa, who is a serviceable enough backup, but will be dropped for a massive upgrade in Diego Carlos when he's fully fit again.  These players can do this, but they will need time to figure it out themselves.  

All fair points and I get what you’re saying. Still makes for painful viewing at times. Not sure I agree that ‘these players can do this’. Personally, I don’t think a lot of our squad is top half quality and I’m hoping that will change this Summer. 

[Tom13]

5 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Personally, I don’t think a lot of our squad is top half quality

Would be interesting to see where we'd be in the table right now if Emery had taken over from Gerrard in summer 22.

[ozvilla28]

Still think we got about 4 to 5 in our starting 11 that need to be replaced and cannot take us to the next level.

 

[burchy]

4 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

Still think we got about 4 to 5 in our starting 11 that need to be replaced and cannot take us to the next level.

 

I kind of agree with this but one caveat I’d add is those 4/5 need to be our bench moving forward, so in a way they will help us get to the next level, as they’d give us more quality from the bench, with their replacements doing the same for the 1st eleven. 

I think a new RB/CB and the back line is set (short term). Granted I’d like a new left CB and LWB but they can wait, especially with Mings contract extension.

Central midfield is again ok short term but if we want to bring in some comp for Dougie I’d be all for it. A more offensive player that can still mix it up defensively too. We had been linked to Merino at Porto.

For me we need proper quality at ST, RW/SS, RM and ideally LM/CAM.

[Don_Simon]

11 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

All fair points and I get what you’re saying. Still makes for painful viewing at times. Not sure I agree that ‘these players can do this’. Personally, I don’t think a lot of our squad is top half quality and I’m hoping that will change this Summer. 

Out of the 11 who started on Saturday, who would you say isn't top half quality?

[Delphinho123]

Just now, Don_Simon said:

Out of the 11 who started on Saturday, who would you say isn't top half quality?

Konsa, Cash, McGinn, Bailey, Ramsey (on current form), Digne. 

[sne]

1 minute ago, Delphinho123 said:

Konsa, Cash, McGinn, Bailey, Ramsey (on current form), Digne. 

Yeah pretty much. I'd say that they all can do a job at mid table since there is very little between the clubs who are usually around 12th to 7th (this season is a bit odd with Chelsea & Liverplop flopping).

All of them together in a team and we'll likely struggle to get much higher than we will end up this season

[CVByrne]

4 hours ago, ozvilla28 said:

Still think we got about 4 to 5 in our starting 11 that need to be replaced and cannot take us to the next level.

 

RF/Winger, a CM/RM, CB, RB/RCB 

I think the biggest three are the new CB (basically Carlos) and RCB/RB. Plus the new partner for Watkins up top. 

We need to get better and building from the back and controlling games. To do that we need those 2 new players in the back 4

[sne]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

RF/Winger, a CM/RM, CB, RB/RCB 

I think the biggest three are the new CB (basically Carlos) and RCB/RB. Plus the new partner for Watkins up top. 

We need to get better and building from the back and controlling games. To do that we need those 2 new players in the back 4

We also need an outlet and better ideas/execution of what to do once we get the ball to Kamara & Luiz after we build it from the back. Atm we are very much a work in progress regarding that imo.

[Kiwivillan]

13 hours ago, KMitch said:

You need to keep in mind too that massive change in team culture doesn't happen overnight.  It needs to be drip fed over time to see serious results.  We're going to make mistakes.  We're going to lose games.  We're going to be frustrated as fans at times, but we've already seen glimpses of just how awesome Emeryball can be.  The payoff will be worth it.

Also, some players are going to take longer to learn and adapt to this style of football than others.  Take for example Ollie's form since Emery came to the club.  He is a very quick learner and is starting to look like the player we hoped he would be for us when we spent all that money on him a few seasons back.  Mings is another very quick learner himself, considering he didn't even play as a central defender until he came to Villa and ended up in the England squad the following season.  He's mentioned how Emery's coaching staff is teaching him more about the CB position than he thought was possible and has spoken about how much nuance there is with Emery's tactics.  It's paying off and he's already improved a lot, especially in possession. Other players will take a lot longer to adapt to this new way of playing and approach to the game.  The only way they're going to learn is by playing, making mistakes, and learning from them. 

Just saying "we can't afford to make mistakes" and switch back to a low block and hoof ball because a lot of our team hasn't built from the back before is just going to delay the learning process.  It would be different if we were Dyche's Burnley and had a back line of thuggish cloggers trying to do this, but we have a world cup winning keeper, 3 international defenders, and Konsa, who is a serviceable enough backup, but will be dropped for a massive upgrade in Diego Carlos when he's fully fit again.  These players can do this, but they will need time to figure it out themselves.  

Even when we've lost it's nice to see we're moving towards playing like the "big" clubs play. A sustainable blueprint over time if you will. Better than MON/Robertson Forest funnel that many seem to miss

[Kiwivillan]

34 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

Konsa, Cash, McGinn, Bailey, Ramsey (on current form), Digne. 

MOTM McGinn. This is great long troll 

[Delphinho123]

14 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said:

MOTM McGinn. This is great long troll 

We’ll just forget the previous 2 years then..?

If McGinn performs like that week in, week out, sure, happy to accept he’s a top half player. But considering he’s been poor for a long, long time and we were playing arguably the worst side in the division, I’m not sure we should be building our European aspirations around him.

Really likeable player in a lot of regards though. 

[gwi1890]

1 hour ago, burchy said:

I kind of agree with this but one caveat I’d add is those 4/5 need to be our bench moving forward, so in a way they will help us get to the next level, as they’d give us more quality from the bench, with their replacements doing the same for the 1st eleven. 

I think a new RB/CB and the back line is set (short term). Granted I’d like a new left CB and LWB but they can wait, especially with Mings contract extension.

Central midfield is again ok short term but if we want to bring in some comp for Dougie I’d be all for it. A more offensive player that can still mix it up defensively too. We had been linked to Merino at Porto.

For me we need proper quality at ST, RW/SS, RM and ideally LM/CAM.

I think a winger/forward and central midfielder should be our priority then a right back. Merino from Real Sociedad  would be a decent option or Guendouzi both would add some physicality and height to the team and would push Doug and Kamara  and the versatility to wide midfield.

[gwi1890]

6 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

We’ll just forget the previous 2 years then..?

If McGinn performs like that week in, week out, sure, happy to accept he’s a top half player. But considering he’s been poor for a long, long time and we were playing arguably the worst side in the division, I’m not sure we should be building our European aspirations around him.

Really likeable player in a lot of regards though. 

He’s been good since Emery arrived. He isn’t given credit for his tactical intelligence enough.

[Rich192]

I expect four new signings in to next seasons first choice XI. Right back, two midfielders and a support striker/winger. Based on rumours of who we’ve been linked with, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us line up like this next season (not seen any tangible links to defenders, so left that blank):

 

———————Martinez———————

RB ——Carlos——Mings——Moreno

Guendouzi—Kamara—Doug—Pote

————Williams——Watkins————

 

And when with the ball:

 

———————Martinez———————

——RB———Carlos———Mings——

—————Kamara—Doug—————

————Guendouzi——Pote————

Williams——————————Moreno

———————Watkins———————

Who says no?

[Delphinho123]

4 hours ago, Rich192 said:

I expect four new signings in to next seasons first choice XI. Right back, two midfielders and a support striker/winger. Based on rumours of who we’ve been linked with, I wouldn’t be surprised to see us line up like this next season (not seen any tangible links to defenders, so left that blank):

 

———————Martinez———————

RB ——Carlos——Mings——Moreno

Guendouzi—Kamara—Doug—Pote

————Williams——Watkins————

 

And when with the ball:

 

———————Martinez———————

——RB———Carlos———Mings——

—————Kamara—Doug—————

————Guendouzi——Pote————

Williams——————————Moreno

———————Watkins———————

Who says no?

Clearly the RB. 

[Mister_a]

17 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

We’ll just forget the previous 2 years then..?

If McGinn performs like that week in, week out, sure, happy to accept he’s a top half player. But considering he’s been poor for a long, long time and we were playing arguably the worst side in the division, I’m not sure we should be building our European aspirations around him.

Really likeable player in a lot of regards though. 

I think the coaching might be a bit different now, compared to two years ago.
For example, we actually have some coaching now.

[Vive_La_Villa]

18 hours ago, Delphinho123 said:

Konsa, Cash, McGinn, Bailey, Ramsey (on current form), Digne. 

What if these players were regarded more as squad players rather than starters which you can kind of see happening already?

I don’t think it’s realistic to have a whole squad of players better than those you just mentioned.

Edited February 28, 2023 by Vive_La_Villa