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Team shape, tactics and personnel


MaVilla

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2 minutes ago, DJBOB said:

Top pass accuracy from the other 14 for the second week running. The math is mathing. 
 

Great to see. Teams having as low as 67% amazes me! Not so much with Forest though, they always look like really disjointed to me, I have no idea how they're outside the relegation zone.

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2 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

I think we'll see all three play a game. Konsa at right back. Cash is playing defensive role and not getting forward so forming kind of a back 3 with Mings and Konsa. I think away from home the added CB in the back 3 is useful

Seen it at Villarreal, Juan Foyth is basically a CB who can play RB.  I'd say at some point when Carlos is back fit, we'll see a back 4 of Moreno -Mings -Carlos -Konsa.

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30 minutes ago, duke313 said:

Seen it at Villarreal, Juan Foyth is basically a CB who can play RB.  I'd say at some point when Carlos is back fit, we'll see a back 4 of Moreno -Mings -Carlos -Konsa.

Think you could be right.

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1 hour ago, duke313 said:

Seen it at Villarreal, Juan Foyth is basically a CB who can play RB.  I'd say at some point when Carlos is back fit, we'll see a back 4 of Moreno -Mings -Carlos -Konsa.

Totally agree. I also see our new defensive signing in summer being a versatile RB/RCB 

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Martinez / Olsen

Cash/Young RCB/Konsa Carlos/Mings Moreno/Digne

Bailey/McGinn Guendouzi/Kamara Luiz/Dendoncker Ramsey/Coutinho

Buendia/WFD Duran/Watkins

 

Chambers, Traore from current first team squad go. I see the RCB playing RB and maybe a young defender like a CB coming in too. If a Bailey or Coutinho move on we replace them but if not we keep them.

I think the three signings are all 40m+ players

 

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3 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

We play counter attacking football that doesn't start with the opposition attacking. 

I know that sounds like it makes no sense, but I think it's right. We control the ball and encourage the opposition into the kind of positions they'd be in if they were attacking us - almost forcing them into attacking us without having the ball so that we can counter on them quickly.

It's genius.

 

Setting traps! Love it :D

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4 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

We play counter attacking football that doesn't start with the opposition attacking. 

I know that sounds like it makes no sense, but I think it's right. We control the ball and encourage the opposition into the kind of positions they'd be in if they were attacking us - almost forcing them into attacking us without having the ball so that we can counter on them quickly.

It's genius.

 

makes perfect sense tbh, and i totally agree.

Its like Emery plays a hybrid style, where he plays steady possession football in our own half to draw the opposition on and create spaces, then when the times comes, he likes us to transition quickly in to their half and attack like we are breaking on the team in to the spaces created (but as you say, we arent breaking from their attack breaking down, we are attacking from a tactical decision to create break opportunities directly from our own play - its quite something tbh).

Its really nice to see, because the "break" isnt an unorganised "punt it" and try to break the line with luck/speed, its a technically created situation where the types of brakes are trained for and the rapid break in to space is something designed tactically, and our players know what is coming (generally speaking).

Its a really interesting style tbh.

it will be interesting to see how Emery plays when we have to break teams down more, as the style above is obviously a lot more effective against a team that will try to press, or are able to be coaxed in to creating space behind, it will be interesting to see what Emery does when a team just sits in and parks the bus, nothing to worry about right now though, as if that starts to happen regularly, it will mean we are performing very well in the league, i would guess.

Interestingly, some Arsenal fans say that this is where Emery struggled a little when a team parked the bus, i dont really care though even if it is true, Emery is clearly one of the best, if not the best manager we have had in recent times (25-30+ years).

Edited by MaVilla
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10 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

We play counter attacking football that doesn't start with the opposition attacking. 

I know that sounds like it makes no sense, but I think it's right. We control the ball and encourage the opposition into the kind of positions they'd be in if they were attacking us - almost forcing them into attacking us without having the ball so that we can counter on them quickly.

It's genius.

 

Yes its core is that we're in the high pressing teams era. So many teams now press and try win the ball back and deny opponents time on the ball. Emery realised an excellent way to counter this is drawing the opposition on to you (trigger their press) so you can create space to "counter attack" into. Opposing teams are always trying to quickly win the ball back and this will always create space to exploit. Gerrard wanted the team to slowly build up from defence to attack, so opposition just had to press us to try stop that. So the positioning of the attacking players is different because they know they won't be the target often at all until the ball gets to the opponents half. While now we've players running into space expecting the ball to come to them because every player knows the game plan and the decisions are on each player, look for the space and a teammate will be about to run into it. There is always space n the football pitch to exploit.

I also like how we become patient with the ball too against teams who will be more defensive we are adding in the types of play the tops sides can do in creating space to attack. For me that's the most pleasing development.

Edited by CVByrne
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13 hours ago, OutByEaster? said:

We play counter attacking football that doesn't start with the opposition attacking. 

I know that sounds like it makes no sense, but I think it's right. We control the ball and encourage the opposition into the kind of positions they'd be in if they were attacking us - almost forcing them into attacking us without having the ball so that we can counter on them quickly.

It's genius.

 

The Athletic did a great article on this a few weeks ago on how Brighton play under De Zerbi. Lot of similarities. It was called something like “why Brighton’s defenders keep standing on the ball.”

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Average positions comparison from the first game against Bournemouth to the one at the weekend. Shout out having a normal manager eh?

(May have actually been from another game in August going off the date, but point stands all the same)

 

20220828_170045.jpg

Screenshot_20230321_223204_Sofascore.jpg

Edited by Indigo
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On 21/03/2023 at 07:25, CVByrne said:

Yes its core is that we're in the high pressing teams era. So many teams now press and try win the ball back and deny opponents time on the ball. Emery realised an excellent way to counter this is drawing the opposition on to you (trigger their press) so you can create space to "counter attack" into. Opposing teams are always trying to quickly win the ball back and this will always create space to exploit. Gerrard wanted the team to slowly build up from defence to attack, so opposition just had to press us to try stop that. So the positioning of the attacking players is different because they know they won't be the target often at all until the ball gets to the opponents half. While now we've players running into space expecting the ball to come to them because every player knows the game plan and the decisions are on each player, look for the space and a teammate will be about to run into it. There is always space n the football pitch to exploit.

I also like how we become patient with the ball too against teams who will be more defensive we are adding in the types of play the tops sides can do in creating space to attack. For me that's the most pleasing development.

Space, is one of the key elements of football, we are beginning to understand it more under UE

When the game has progressed over the years and the players are so much more athletic and prudent, but the pitches are much the same size.....Space is a crucial rarity....it has to be found.

Its also why ball control, is key too...that first touch is more beneficial than ever.

attacking the space, is what all the best teams do.....we are just learning under UE.

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14 hours ago, Indigo said:

Average positions comparison from the first game against Bournemouth to the one at the weekend. Shout out having a normal manager eh?

(May have actually been from another game in August going off the date, but point stands all the same)

 

20220828_170045.jpg

Screenshot_20230321_223204_Sofascore.jpg

The Gerrard positioning is the drab West Ham loss at home. Unforgettable left sided attack. The other half of the pitch had nothing to do. 

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1 hour ago, DJBOB said:

The Gerrard positioning is the drab West Ham loss at home. Unforgettable left sided attack. The other half of the pitch had nothing to do. 

I don't think so...the diagram shows Traore playing (#9). He left on loan on 22 August, but we played West Ham on 28 August.

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15 hours ago, Indigo said:

Average positions comparison from the first game against Bournemouth to the one at the weekend. Shout out having a normal manager eh?

(May have actually been from another game in August going off the date, but point stands all the same)

 

20220828_170045.jpg

Screenshot_20230321_223204_Sofascore.jpg

The things that stand out the most here are...

1. The left back was getting forward more than the right back even under Gerrard. (Though this may have been particular to the match because, as DJBOB points out, we were particularly one-sided in attack there.)

2. This reminds me how much we were overdependent on advancing the ball up the wings with Gerrard. It wasn't necessarily just our left wing like in this match, but we rarely advanced it up the middle, and teams learned to pin us in along the touchline.

3. Related to bringing it through the middle: Look how much further forward Dougie is in the recent match, despite not having Kamara holding down the back.

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28 minutes ago, TomC said:

I don't think so...the diagram shows Traore playing (#9). He left on loan on 22 August, but we played West Ham on 28 August.

I believe that was Ings 😁

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On 20/03/2023 at 21:29, OutByEaster? said:

We play counter attacking football that doesn't start with the opposition attacking. 

I know that sounds like it makes no sense, but I think it's right. We control the ball and encourage the opposition into the kind of positions they'd be in if they were attacking us - almost forcing them into attacking us without having the ball so that we can counter on them quickly.

It's genius.

 

Totally makes sense and it's what all the great possession teams do. Sacchi's legendary Milan team would just knock it about until they drew the other team out and pulled them out of shape enough to see an opening then create using that space. They were so good at controlling games they could do that once in 90 minutes, keep the ball and then shake hands and say thanks for coming and for the lovely 3 points.

We clearly on that kind of level, but the whole point of us playing it around in our half is to pull the other teams shape about so we can get a two on one somewhere behind their press and then go for it. We're getting better at it every game too. 

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6 hours ago, TomC said:

The things that stand out the most here are...

1. The left back was getting forward more than the right back even under Gerrard. (Though this may have been particular to the match because, as DJBOB points out, we were particularly one-sided in attack there.)

2. This reminds me how much we were overdependent on advancing the ball up the wings with Gerrard. It wasn't necessarily just our left wing like in this match, but we rarely advanced it up the middle, and teams learned to pin us in along the touchline.

3. Related to bringing it through the middle: Look how much further forward Dougie is in the recent match, despite not having Kamara holding down the back.

We need the in form Bailey or the upgrade over the summer on Bailey. Without it, our attacks are stagnant if opponents are intent on parking the bus. 

The lack of width on the right keeps us rather one sided and all our best attacks end up coming down the left. 

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