Team shape, tactics and personnel

[catanzaro]

1 hour ago, Herman22 said:

Looking at the players we have I wonder would a back 5 work well? It seems the only way we can get some width is to get the full backs forward. I’d even consider Kamara as the centre of that 5. 

Martinez 

Cash Carlos Kamara Mings Digne

McGinn Luiz

Couthino Buendia

Watkins

This allows us to get two 10s on the pitch and gives the full backs the chance to overlap! 

I’m with you on this… Basically these are the players that need to be on the pitch.. and I’d interchange JJ with one of the 10s

[Indigo]

1 hour ago, DCJonah said:

Could we try 3 at the back? 

Cash and Digne are the width.

We could have a midfield 2 of Kamara and Luiz/Mcginn

Then either a number 10 behind Watkins and Ings

Or an attacking 3. 

Without proper out and out wingers I feel this would offer us more in the final 3rd. 

Have seen it said by a few scouts, coaches etc that Gerrard's occasional set-up in terms of the high full backs and the two "10s" makes much more sense as a 3-4-2-1 than the way we're currently attempting the shoe-horn it. The template for it to work is there considering how many sides play it, and definitely seems more balanced than the mangled way Villa's shape can look when trying that game plan. Not that we'll ever see it but I think something like this could work...

 

Martinez

Chambers-Carlos-Mings

Cash-Luiz-Kamara-Digne

Bailey-Buendia

Striker

Especially when you consider that KKH is more of a wing back by the looks of things, McGinn occasionally players as part of the forward line in this shape for Scotland etc. Definitely an interesting one to consider.

[a m ole]

With Kamara we were essentially playing 3 at the back anyway - at least at the start. 

[MrBlack]

12 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

I'm wondering if it was " Last chance saloon " for some, and they failed miserably, and we'll now see imminent transfer incomings.

It seems yesterday infuriated absolutely everyone involved at the club.

From one angle i can see why he ( Gerrard ) is immensely pissed off, however on the other, some ( Alot ? ) of it is his own doing.

But he hasn't given Sanson any real opportunity, neither Luiz who has looked amazing as an 8 the few times he played there last season.  Going out to buy a new number 8 when I think we have two perfectly capable alternatives there is the very definition of cheque book manager.

I really hope it was more an audition for Konsa, Mcginn, Coutinho,  with an expectation that they should have more than enough to beat Bournemouth. All of whom failed miserably, and will hopefully be replaced by the 3 players we all know should be starting instead of them.

[Chicken Field]

Except for Ramsey's short burst of form, is there any single player for us, that has improved since Gerrard came in?

Edited August 7, 2022 by Chicken Field

[Rightdm00]

1 hour ago, a m ole said:

With Kamara we were essentially playing 3 at the back anyway - at least at the start. 

And then McGinn and Ramsey on either wing supporting the pressed high fullbacks. Midfield is empty. Makes sense we kept pumping in crosses. We had no other option given our setup. 

A good manager would have stopped with this busted formation after a couple games. Steven has persisted even though it has never bore fruit. Very worrying. 

[nick76]

5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Last seasons player of the season ( Cash ), as well as Ramsey , and McGinn were outstanding for a while, as was Nakamba before his injury.

Cash I agree but I don’t think McGinn was better last season.  I think Archer could classed as improving as well.

Unfortunately it’s only a couple and given the 2021 form, that’s depressing because improvement in 2022 was fairly easy to achieve for most players but most didn’t.

Edited August 7, 2022 by nick76

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 minute ago, nick76 said:

Cash I agree but I don’t think McGinn was better last season.  I think Archer could classed as improving as well.

McGinn was definitely better for the first what, 3 games or so? But yeah tailed off massively.

He look like the " Super " version in the first couple games if I remember correctly.

[nick76]

2 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

McGinn was definitely better for the first what, 3 games or so? But yeah tailed off massively.

He look like the " Super " version in the first couple games if I remember correctly.

I think the point of the question was which players improved under Gerrard, you really cant say that 3 games is sufficient which then tails off.  Improved means most of the time compared to previously.

[ciggiesnbeer]

1 hour ago, Chicken Field said:

Except for Ramsey's short burst of form, is there any single player for us, that has improved since Gerrard came in?

Cash and (ironically) Buendia.

[Zhan_Zhuang]

49 minutes ago, nick76 said:

So having a good squad depth is classed as a contributing factor to a defeat.  Things aren’t black and white but that is pushing boundaries of an excuse plus Gerrard wanted options in every position.  I just can’t see having options is a valid excuse among more reasonable likely excuses.

No, many are saying we haven’t seen anything to date that he is good enough.  He has to show us and it’s not there currently.

As for the “I told you so” it’s more that we are have raising these concerns and he’s not addressing them, if you want to take that as I told you so then so be it.  I think it’s more than others are raising valid concerns and those who had those concerns are saying yes we know.

You really think he’s going to drop Coutinho? It’s not going to happen in the short term.  

As for Mings, the comments Gerrard allegedly said to that reporter suggests Mings has some way to go before he gets back in the team so maybe Konsa keeps his place or Chambers comes in.  

Plus Gerrard has shown in the past he doesn’t learn from these things, I’m hopeful he does this time but I don’t expect him to change things too much for next week.

I never said that, you are putting words into my mouth...due to inconsistencies with performances of certain players we are all in agreement (are we not) that players are inconsistent.

It makes it very difficult to select a first eleven, @JAMAICAN-VILLAN said it himself in response that perhaps players look awesome in training yet aren't doing it on a matchday. It would be very disheartening for a manager if this was the case. But when do you make the call to change, the feeling maybe well give them another game to prove they can perform. I don't know the answers yet it seems like we are also going around in circles. It's a debate, there are no answers currently and we watch and wait as Gerrard is going nowhere so we live in hope we get a response.

Coutinho was dropped last season against Burnley so it is not beyond the realms of possibility. I think we should certainly be looking at using him sparingly, perhaps more at home than away.

Gerrard as a rookie manager is trying to assert himself and nail his colours to the mast, there will be casualties along the way. Not that I agree with them but again we have to hope it is for the best and he knows what he is doing.

There are many who are jumping on our opening day defeat as "I told you so" yet the season is long and Arsenal were in a similar predicament for a few matches at the beginning of last season yet they sorted it out. Let us hope we can achieve something similar rather than just wishing Gerrard gets the sack or making our mind up too soon. As I say he isn't going anywhere just yet.

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

I'm usually optimistic and this is typically my default position, but I'm struggling to justify it right now. He's shown almost no indications that this is anything other than the norm. This is how we played for I want to say a good 50% of last season at least and all of preseason. He's given previous little to hold on to to be optimistic about. The Gerrard Ball of November - January is so long ago now I can't consider it anything other than a blip. 

I want to think he's going to turn it around but in my heart of hearts I don't think it has it in him, based on almost 30 games of evidence now.

I see a clear distinction, in the way we play, by who we play......its not good and I am not condoning it.....but I see it.

That game yesterday WAS on the cards, We simply have no answer to the way they played.....sad as it is, its there.

Also The 5 game losing run under Dean last season, featured 4 of the same teams under SG's 5 game losing run at the back end of the season.

The point I am trying to make is...certain types of styles of play and we are pants.....There is still a lot of work to do on our team, but we have ensure, we buy the right type of players to fix it......don't have to be marquee signings, just players who can give us something different.

I think Newcastle and West Ham have done it well.

 

[Junxs]

When you consistently leave out the clubs record signing and fan favourite, to shoe horn an ex team mate who used to be good half a decade ago, then you are making a rod for your own back.

 

[Guest av1]

13 minutes ago, Junxs said:

When you consistently leave out the clubs record signing and fan favourite, to shoe horn an ex team mate who used to be good half a decade ago, then you are making a rod for your own back.

 

Not disagreeing with this, I’d play Buendia over Countinho all day long, but his biggest mistake is making our worst midfielder captain. If the midfield was functioning Countinho would be fantastic 

 

[VillaParkAvenue]

35 minutes ago, TRO said:

I see a clear distinction, in the way we play, by who we play......its not good and I am not condoning it.....but I see it.

That game yesterday WAS on the cards, We simply have no answer to the way they played.....sad as it is, its there.

Also The 5 game losing run under Dean last season, featured 4 of the same teams under SG's 5 game losing run at the back end of the season.

The point I am trying to make is...certain types of styles of play and we are pants.....There is still a lot of work to do on our team, but we have ensure, we buy the right type of players to fix it......don't have to be marquee signings, just players who can give us something different.

I think Newcastle and West Ham have done it well.

 

Villa have been relatively poor against a variety of teams I think, but we seem to struggle the most against teams that sit back deep. Villa are completely helpless when facing a low block. There’s no meaningful running to move the opposition around, only aimless crosses into the box, aimed at no-one.

It was exactly the same in those back to back defeats to Watford and Newcastle under SG last season.

[icouldtelltheworld]

3 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Last seasons player of the season ( Cash ), as well as Ramsey , and McGinn were outstanding for a while, as was Nakamba before his injury.

Cash was already a standout player before Smith was sacked IMO (even though we'd been poor on the whole). I think he'd have had a strong season whoever was in charge.

Nakamba is the obvious answer, his form when Gerrard first came on was head and shoulders above anything hes managed here before or after

[duke313]

Good thread on Twitter on why our midfield is a complete shambles.

 

[Zatman]

59 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

Villa have been relatively poor against a variety of teams I think, but we seem to struggle the most against teams that sit back deep. Villa are completely helpless when facing a low block. There’s no meaningful running to move the opposition around, only aimless crosses into the box, aimed at no-one.

It was exactly the same in those back to back defeats to Watford and Newcastle under SG last season.

Maybe just maybe we didn't use our full backs as playmakers, played some width and got midfielders that can pass the ball which we have

[rbcuk]

This is going to be our problem all season 

 

[AshVilla]

                     Watkins/Ings

Bailey              Coutinho         Buendia

                 Kamara         Luiz

   Digne       Mings     Diego        Cash

                                Emi

Coutinho/Bailey/Buendia can be interchangeable. They can play as inside forwards/wide e.t.c.

If Luiz doesn't want to play that far back diddums flog him and sign someone that does who can also get forward and progress the ball?

I think this is our best team and It's not rocket science?