Team shape, tactics and personnel

[CVByrne]

5 minutes ago, tinker said:

Starting 4 offensive players isn't working for us, especially with Mc Ginn and Ramsey both pushing forward, then we have the full backs bombing on as well. It's asking for trouble.

We need to go back to basics and stop the opposition playing. We have so much attacking threat and we seem to be trying to get them all on at once, looks nice on paper but it's just not effective.

 

I think the complete opposite, we're defensively solid from open play. We've had those set piece issues. We only start 3 offensive players in our front 3. We lack a real goal threat

[a-k]

What about the way Spurs play? OK it's 3 at the back again, but could/suit us quite well?

Martinez

Carlos Chambers Mings

Cash Kamara Luiz Digne

Buendia Coutinho

Watkins

[tinker]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

I think the complete opposite, we're defensively solid from open play. We've had those set piece issues. We only start 3 offensive players in our front 3. We lack a real goal threat

I don't see us as being defensively solid, when we lose possession the opposition are running straight through us.

The keeper kept the score down on Saturday but let's not forget that Bournemouth had some good chances that were either saved or they didn't have the quality to finish them.

 

 

[Newry_Villan]

Didn't the players 'demand' a tactics change with Smith before lockdown?

Something similar might be required here I think.

[romavillan]

8 hours ago, Indigo said:

???

 

 

Wow, that's terrible, compare that to the man city and liverpool charts. No wonder we look a bit poor in the middle, we never have anyone there. That chart is also telling of how Bournemouth let us have it where it couldn't hurt them and that enormous hole in the middle is where they were nice and compact and entirely unfussed about us.

[romavillan]

2 minutes ago, Newry_Villan said:

Didn't the players 'demand' a tactics change with Smith before lockdown?

Something similar might be required here I think.

Careful they might all end up like Mings

[Condimentalist]

2 minutes ago, Newry_Villan said:

Didn't the players 'demand' a tactics change with Smith before lockdown?

Something similar might be required here I think.

Smith had an internal leadership group and actively sought out the views of his players throughout his time as manager.

Whereas Gerrard just blames them if things go wrong and says he'll replace them.  

 

[duke313]

50 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

People suggesting 4 2 3 1 - It's such a big departure from our current tactics I still see it as unlikely from Gerrard as it's basically an abandonment of his style of play. Full backs need to change and no 8s. We also only have Bailey who can hold the width in a front three. Buendia/Coutinho play too narrow. 

Gerrard is likely too stubborn to change, which will be his undoing and will likely lead to his sacking.

[duke313]

1 minute ago, Condimentalist said:

Smith had an internal leadership group and actively sought out the views of his players throughout his time as manager.

Whereas Gerrard just blames them if things go wrong and says he'll replace them.  

 

Very Mourinho like, without the initial successful period.

[Villan_of_oz]

He needs to do away with his methods and go to a 4231 it's that simple.

            Martinez

Cash Carlos Mings Digne

         Kamara Luiz 

Bailey   Coutinho  Beundia 

              Watkins 

 

Won't happen but that's the solution 

[sparrow1988]

14 minutes ago, romavillan said:

Careful they might all end up like Mings

Marxists, you mean?

[sne]

45 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Well, Liverpool operate the same tactic, full backs that are part of the attack and inside forwards and they had Mane as a CF. No big players really in their attack yet they scored so many goals. So the tactic clearly can work if executed by quality players and coaches

Yeah the Liverpool tactic is great, but it's so much more detailed than our version. 

Ours is a watered down copy 

[Davkaus]

2 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

 

For a reminder of the squad that Sherwood inherited

[VillaParkAvenue]

10 minutes ago, Xela said:

29/30 isn't old anymore with better nutrition/training methods etc in modern football. 

 

That’s true for most players, but doesn’t count in relation to transfer values and potential resales. Around 29/30 years players’ transfer values drop sharply.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

5 minutes ago, Davkaus said:

For a reminder of the squad that Sherwood inherited

To be fair, imagine a prime Vlaar and Benteke in this squad we have now? ( Instead of a Konsa / Ollie Watkins )

The rest might have been dross, but those two were huge!

See, I'll say again, we have a good " squad " that is unbalanced. If we had a couple of real standout players it would make a difference.

Notably in a game like yesterday, prime Benteke smacks a couple of those defenders off and scores out of nothing.

Vlaar drives one of his runs and scores with a powerful shot.

We really need someone to step up, we need a powerful game changer in matches like that when it's not going well.

This is what I expected the " Captain " to try to do , and it's what I've said I've at least see Tyrone try to do.

Or a Jack Grealish.

Edited August 8, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[Davkaus]

I was never sold on Vlaar, tbh, and I'd take Mings any day. Prime Benteke instead of Ings though? Now we're talking. Delph gets into the current side as well

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 minutes ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

That’s true for most players, but doesn’t count in relation to transfer values and potential resales. Around 29/30 years players’ transfer values drop sharply.

Mate Conte has signed older players than us, it's not that black and white, you need a good mix of quality, experience and youth 

[Xela]

1 minute ago, VillaParkAvenue said:

That’s true for most players, but doesn’t count in relation to transfer values and potential resales. Around 29/30 years players’ transfer values drop sharply.

True, but its reflected in the transfer fees we paid. Digne at £25m compared to Cucarella at £62m. Carlos at £26m compared to Fofana at potentially £80m or Lisandro Martinez at £50m. 

Not saying fill the team with 29 year olds but 2 or 3 of them is fine IMO

[Davkaus]

Indeed, the problem is the players we signed, not their age, IMO.

We clearly never had any idea what to do with Ings. Countinho had played about 10 good games in 3 years and half of them were for us. Two bloody good players in there somewhere, but if we can't get them delivering, it's not because they're 29.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 minutes ago, Xela said:

True, but its reflected in the transfer fees we paid. Digne at £25m compared to Cucarella at £62m. Carlos at £26m compared to Fofana at potentially £80m or Lisandro Martinez at £50m. 

Not saying fill the team with 29 year olds but 2 or 3 of them is fine IMO

Indeed, for where we are, the only way you get the quality we want at a decent price is by signing them a little more seasoned, or by picking them up as gems from overseas and hoping it works out.

The younger versions of these players will cost alot more and are mopped up by the " bigger" clubs.