Team shape, tactics and personnel

[Keyblade]

25 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

This is going to be our problem all season 

 

We cannot play both McGinn and Ramsey in the same XI. One of Luiz or Nakamba (hopefully a new midfielder) has to be in there with them to hold when they go forward.

[VillaParkAvenue]

24 minutes ago, rbcuk said:

This is going to be our problem all season 

 

Likely yes. People have been asking for a DM for years, now we have a good one but it still doesn’t solve our midfield problems when the set-up is this way.

[Indigo]

???

 

 

[I Make Pies]

1 hour ago, rbcuk said:

This is going to be our problem all season 

 

Is this a lack of discipline by McGinn by failing to adhere to his instructions? Or is Gerrard trying a tactic that isn't working?

Watched a bit of the Man U-Brighton game earlier and Brighton played the 'Kamara' way but with 3 CBs instead of a defensive midfielder. The two 'McGinn-JJ' central midfielders held their shape for the most part. The 'Coutinho-Bailey' wide players switched between being narrow without the ball and going wide with the ball. Trossard was particularly good at this. Up front they had Welbeck who did the Watkins role but with more quality. Overall, they had a clear plan and the players stuck to it.

Either Gerrard should have the system in place by now or he should know McGinn/others cannot be trusted  to carry it out.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

2 hours ago, AshVilla said:

                     Watkins/Ings

Bailey              Coutinho         Buendia

                 Kamara         Luiz

   Digne       Mings     Diego        Cash

                                Emi

Coutinho/Bailey/Buendia can be interchangeable. They can play as inside forwards/wide e.t.c.

If Luiz doesn't want to play that far back diddums flog him and sign someone that does who can also get forward and progress the ball?

I think this is our best team and It's not rocket science?

Only thing I'd change is Bailey on the right, Buendia in the middle supporting the attack and Coutinho on the left.

Gets Bailey and Coutinho in their best positions, and Buendia as close as possible to his.

If Luiz doesn't work their and we don't sign anyone I'd genuinely give Iroegbunam a shot.

4 - 2 - 3 - 1 would undoubtedly be the best for our squad IMO, but the 3 - 4 - 2 - 1 posted above would probably be the best compromise between SG preferred system and getting the bes tour of squad.

Edited August 8, 2022 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[ozvilla28]

We didn’t even do the basics right pressure tackle and hunger very flat. We don't have a identity or system seems like we buy players and don't know how to fit them in.

[Anything11]

6 hours ago, Indigo said:

???

 

 

 

Crying out for a 9 who drops deep to receive the ball such as Firmino. The whole team feels like it is missing it.

 

[CVByrne]

I do think the split forwards is formation with our most attacking threat. So Ings and Watkins with Coutinho/Buendia as 10. 

It's frustrating looking at such well coached team as Brighton working with a fraction of our budget playing so well

[sne]

We play like a team coached by an ex player who got by on talent and drive and who didn't need to bother with the finer details of the game when he was active.

When you look at well coached team you see that all players know what they are supposed to do, what their teammates will do and how to react as a team in any given situation. They have lines, patters, and all that other good stuff to go along with their individual talent, physical attributes and attitude.

We have nothing of that, we have a formation with glaring issues and a group of players who look like they've never played together. 

I don't expect a manager to be a obsessed Bielsa type but attention to details is a must.

[CVByrne]

Well Beale and Critchley are the two who should have been / should be coaching the players as to what they should be doing. 

We all know Ings isn't a lone CF and it's even worse when we keep putting crosses into the box, over and over when they have 3 CBs. 

I really think the issue as to why we don't create chances is the non attacking 8s and the ultra attacking full backs. It needs to be tweaked as the midfield 3 don't really know if they should be joining the attack or covering the full backs. 

I don't know what it is, is the tactic too complicated for the players we have? We also lack physicality in midfield and up front. Watkins is maybe our most physical player and teams know to be physical with us as we don't handle it well.

The split forwards and one 10 system works best because there are always options for the fullbacks in the box and the 10 has lots of freedom to move about. So two from Watkins, Ings, Archer, Bailey as part of a front 2 and Coutinho/Buendia in 10. 

[Guest av1]

8 hours ago, daft said:

 Ery interesting. I'm starting to understand what people are on about regarding Gerrard now. I missed much of last season, but indications are that he truly lacks a tactical lens to use. 

Troubling. Hope for improvement soon of course.

It was exactly the same last season and it’s why we were so easily overwhelmed in the middle of the park. 
 

There was always one of Luiz/Nakamba sat in front of the back 4, with McGinn and and Ramsey playing high up the pitch. 
 

If I could be bothered I could probably find a similar photo still from every single game last season. 

[daft]

3 minutes ago, av1 said:

It was exactly the same last season and it’s why we were so easily overwhelmed in the middle of the park. 
 

There was always one of Luiz/Nakamba sat in front of the back 4, with McGinn and and Ramsey playing high up the pitch. 
 

If I could be bothered I could probably find a similar photo still from every single game last season. 

I mean, in an of itself it shouldn't be an issue unless the pivot drops way too deep and the higher mids run too soon. That just leaves a massive gap. He needs to figure that out ASAP.

[CVByrne]

People suggesting 4 2 3 1 - It's such a big departure from our current tactics I still see it as unlikely from Gerrard as it's basically an abandonment of his style of play. Full backs need to change and no 8s. We also only have Bailey who can hold the width in a front three. Buendia/Coutinho play too narrow. 

[sne]

13 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

 

I don't know what it is, is the tactic too complicated for the players we have? We also lack physicality in midfield and up front. Watkins is maybe our most physical player and teams know to be physical with us as we don't handle it well.

 

I think it's the other way round. The tactics is a empty shell, there is nothing in there. 

[CVByrne]

4 minutes ago, sne said:

I think it's the other way round. The tactics is a empty shell, there is nothing in there. 

Well, Liverpool operate the same tactic, full backs that are part of the attack and inside forwards and they had Mane as a CF. No big players really in their attack yet they scored so many goals. So the tactic clearly can work if executed by quality players and coaches

[AshVilla]

15 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

People suggesting 4 2 3 1 - It's such a big departure from our current tactics I still see it as unlikely from Gerrard as it's basically an abandonment of his style of play. Full backs need to change and no 8s. We also only have Bailey who can hold the width in a front three. Buendia/Coutinho play too narrow. 

The current tactics/system are not working.

Either he abandons it or he's sacked by Christmas at this rate.

[CVByrne]

2 minutes ago, AshVilla said:

The current tactics/system are not working.

Either he abandons it or he's sacked by Christmas at this rate.

His only option in my opinion is the 2 up front and diamond in midfield. One of those forwards has to be Watkins. 

[daft]

5 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Well, Liverpool operate the same tactic, full backs that are part of the attack and inside forwards and they had Mane as a CF. No big players really in their attack yet they scored so many goals. So the tactic clearly can work if executed by quality players and coaches

With a smaller team you can't just feed crosses in. Maybe if we keep the ball on the ground and supply cut-backs from FB's and/or wingers pushing up and cutting inside. But the hole in midfield needs fixing, and I don't think we need to change formation, just shape and instructions. We can't have one dropping back and all the other CM's pushing forward, we need one of the to anchor the midfield when transitioning to attack I think. 

[tinker]

Starting 4 offensive players isn't working for us, especially with Mc Ginn and Ramsey both pushing forward, then we have the full backs bombing on as well. It's asking for trouble.

We need to go back to basics and stop the opposition playing. We have so much attacking threat and we seem to be trying to get them all on at once, looks nice on paper but it's just not effective.

 

[BG_Villa_Fan]

1 minute ago, CVByrne said:

Well, Liverpool operate the same tactic, full backs that are part of the attack and inside forwards and they had Mane as a CF. No big players really in their attack yet they scored so many goals. So the tactic clearly can work if executed by quality players and coaches

It's not a tactic - it's a formation, we're playing roughly similarly positioned players, only worse. Tactics are much more than this though - they're patterns of movement on and off the ball, players covering some space when another makes a run, players getting to a specific position when someone else gets somewhere, etc. etc. We do none of this, no one moves, everyone stands and waits expecting the ball to find them. Which has obviously resulted in a ton of useless crosses going nowhere. 

This isn't even the bare bones of a thought out tactical approach, it's simply the result of 11 players not knowing how to play together. This is why I don't think any changes in the first 11, formation or even bringing in more expensive players would change much.