Team shape, tactics and personnel

[MrBlack]

1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

We don’t know what goes in in training though. He could be picking the players that train hardest, look sharpest.

If Buendia has a sub role but we are winning games is that problem? If on the other hand we go on a run of poor results and the same players that can play in Emi’s position aren’t performing and keep getting picked ahead of him Ill understand the complaints.

It’s all about the results end of the day. 

Completely agree. If we're winning, that would also go a long way to convincing me.  Irrespective of who is playing. 

[TRO]

2 minutes ago, MrBlack said:

Completely agree. If we're winning, that would also go a long way to convincing me.  Irrespective of who is playing. 

winning negates so much conjecture.

[allani]

1 hour ago, MrBlack said:

Kamara?

He didn't have much choice but to put faith in new signings. And knowing this, we bought them as early as was humanly possible once the transfer window opened. 

Overall sentiment spot on though.  He has a lot to do to win over those of us still on the fence.  Starting Buendia would go a long way to convincing me he's not picking names over form. 

 

I know what you are saying but this does kind of read a little bit like pick the name I want you to pick so that I know you aren't picking names of players I don't want over form.   

I would personally like to see Couts and Buendia start - but Bailey has given me a slight challenge with his return to fitness and form during pre-season.  I do think that all three will play quite a lot of minutes - just not at the same time.  I guess the issue then is which one / two start (assuming all three don't) and who comes on first (and when).  I think there may be a few positions where we start with a "solid" option and then bring on a "finisher" (to use a term from rugby) to try and take advantage of the opposition tiring themselves out.  This could be McGinn being replaced by JJ and Couts being replaced by Buendia.  I guess what will become difficult is if we regularly do OK with the solid players on and then nick goals / points with the finishers - should the finishers start (because they are "doing better" than the starters) or is the tactic working in that the finishers are doing better because the starters have worked over the opposition. 

I just get the feeling that Buendia has maybe looked more effective in the second half of matches during pre-season because he's super fresh and can exploit some tired legs - or at least that might be what the coaching staff are thinking.  With 5 substitutions and the gap between the quality of the first X1 and the bench closing - I think we will see subs become more and more tactical like that.  The point will be to give the finishers enough time to make an impact rather than only giving them the last 10 minutes or so.

[TRO]

I think at times when we talk about line ups ...we talk about WHO they are as opposed to WHAT they do. Too many sometimes do the same job, and other jobs don't get done....We need to ensure crucial jobs get done.

If we all set up a team and listed the attributes required to operate that formation.....then picked the players to match those attibutes, we might find a better balance.....and not leave jobs, not done.

As an example, businesses talk about Productives and Non- Productives, and that balance is important to them, they have sales people and admin, and the balances need to be right....otherwise you get a lopsided business....I often look at players and say to my self, not done much wrong, but WHAT have you actually done, in terms of effect?.......Its so easy to be running around a business with paper in your hand, looking busy, and doing nothing......the same parallels exist in football.

We talk about passing the ball and awful lot, and sure its paramount, but other things seem to get lost in the whole scheme of things.....things that make a difference also......are the passes penetrative or just cosmetic?, do they hurt teams?or just played in front of them for affect.

I still feel we have a first team midfielder short a 6/8 who can cover a number of key attributes....and dominate the ball, to give us more control.....and be that effective difference maker,( Governor) alongside Kamara.

 

Edited August 3, 2022 by TRO

[CVByrne]

Can anyone tell me has McGinn / Ramsey swapped which side of the pitch they're playing on? I think McGinn getting wide and putting balls into the box is something that works. He's got a good delivery 

[Tomaszk]

8 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

Can anyone tell me has McGinn / Ramsey swapped which side of the pitch they're playing on? I think McGinn getting wide and putting balls into the box is something that works. He's got a good delivery 

Good point.

I'm pretty sure Ramsey played out on the left in his games. Can't recall McGinn to be honest.

[CVByrne]

Tactically I think we start two of our 5 attacking players in a 3 or a 1 2. I think Watkins Ings and Bailey can all play as part of a two up top. Watkins and Ings can play centrally in a 3. Bailey can play wide in a three. Buendia and Coutinho can play wide in a three or as a 10. 

That's a quality set of attacking talent with different talents and all versatile in positions they can play. Throwing Archer into that mix gives a bit of depth. 

Midfield we've got to pick three of McGinn, Kamara, Sanson, JJ and Luiz. With Naka and Tim adding depth. 

With the new sub rules we will make at least 3 Midfield/Forward subs per game. So we'll be using the squad 

Then in defence we've got two for every position LB, LCB, RCB, RB. With two for GK too. If KKH stays around then he'll add another option for depth and Young is capable of playing many positions on either flank. 

We've finally got the squad assembled, depth and competition for every place in the team. Were equipped for challenging Europe. 

Now it's time for the coaching to take over and for incremental upgrades on individual positions as we go. 

Edited August 4, 2022 by CVByrne

[nick76]

 

[PieFacE]

When I think back to last season, 2 things come to mind which totally contradict each other.

Part of me feels that Gerrard's system doesn't really work with the players that we have and we really struggle to create opportunities for Ings and Watkins from open play. It always felt like there wasn't much fluidity to how we played.

But then on the other hand...

I feel like Ings and Watkins combined had loads of chances and were completely inefficient in front of goal. I seem to remember a lot of games where points were dropped due to relatively simple chances being missed by either of the pair.

Both those statements can't really be true, which is correct?  

Edited August 5, 2022 by PieFacE

[theboyangel]

8 minutes ago, PieFacE said:

When I think back to last season, 2 things come to mind which totally contradict each other.

Part of me feels that Gerrard's system doesn't really work with the players that we have and we really struggle to create opportunities for Ings and Watkins from open play. It always felt like there wasn't much fluidity to how we played.

But then on the other hand...

I feel like Ings and Watkins combined had loads of chances and were completely inefficient in front of goal. I seem to remember a lot of games where points were dropped due to relatively simple chances being missed by either of the pair.

Both those statements can't really be true, which is correct?  

My recollection of games last year was we always created chances but failed to take the majority. 
 

Take the 4-0 ‘drubbing’ by Spurzz - we absolutely battered them but they took their chances on the counter and we squandered chance after chance.

[HKP90]

I think what the Women have taught us at the Euros (among other things), is that having a gameplan over 90 mins is as important as the starting lineup. This will be even more true in the era of 5 subs.

[DCJonah]

Palace and arsenal both play with an attacking 3 behind a striker. 

I wish we'd give it a go. 

I don't think we need 3 cm players when we have the attacking quality we could put out with a 3 behind Watkins or ings. 

[bannedfromHandV]

Feels to me like SG may be cycling out players that he doesn’t feel have the mentality he wants in the squad.

El Ghazi has always seemed quite fragile to me, Targett I think might have been the same. Traore just seems too laid back and Mings has previously spoken about mental health issues. Guilbert I don’t know, maybe he just doesn’t rate him on ability alone. 

If it works it works, he’ll live and die by these decisions.

[Tomaszk]

2 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Feels to me like SG may be cycling out players that he doesn’t feel have the mentality he wants in the squad.

El Ghazi has always seemed quite fragile to me, Targett I think might have been the same. Traore just seems too laid back and Mings has previously spoken about mental health issues. Guilbert I don’t know, maybe he just doesn’t rate him on ability alone. 

If it works it works, he’ll live and die by these decisions.

We shall see.

Could be a case of he needs to accept that some of this is just going to be...not everyone can do the things you could.

Players you've mentioned can be improved on yes, but threatening McGinn, Watkins, Cash into becoming world beaters won't work because the basic ability isn't there. Not a dig, a fact.

[PeterSw]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

I don't think we need 3 cm players when we have the attacking quality we could put out with a 3 behind Watkins or ings. 

They'd be awful at marking taller players at set pieces too 

[Dale]

Part of me expects us to start super narrow sans Bailey tomorrow. With two up top. That'd be depressing. 

I hope we start with width and Bailey. 

[Dale]

1 hour ago, bannedfromHandV said:

Feels to me like SG may be cycling out players that he doesn’t feel have the mentality he wants in the squad

Perhaps. Not sure that's something SG could legitimately plant on Mings! 

Edited August 5, 2022 by Dale

[Zatman]

3 hours ago, DCJonah said:

Palace and arsenal both play with an attacking 3 behind a striker. 

I wish we'd give it a go. 

I don't think we need 3 cm players when we have the attacking quality we could put out with a 3 behind Watkins or ings. 

Its so logical with the 3 attacking midfielders we have. A striker like Ings/Archer would thrive off it

Would need a disciplined midfielder though next to Kamara

[bannedfromHandV]

1 hour ago, Tomaszk said:

We shall see.

Could be a case of he needs to accept that some of this is just going to be...not everyone can do the things you could.

Players you've mentioned can be improved on yes, but threatening McGinn, Watkins, Cash into becoming world beaters won't work because the basic ability isn't there. Not a dig, a fact.

Well they don’t need to become ‘world beaters’, we’re not challenging for the title. 

Cash is a good player and at the moment is on an upward trajectory, McGinn and Watkins have both flatlined admittedly but let’s see how they get on this season before writing them off.

[Newry_Villan]

Making McGinn captain has to be up there with his worst decisions he's made. This system is shit.