Panto_Villan Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 And, for what it's worth, I think we should move away from three at the back and drop Ollie to the bench. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbvilla909 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) Patchy start to the season to say the least, yesterday's game was an anomaly, they happen. Not sold on 5 at the back and when Bailey is fit I'd expect us to revert back to 4-3-3. Ings and Watkins partnership is gelling yet. If the owners expectations was European football this season, then I don't think Smith will be afforded much more time if results don't improve and consistent. Edited October 17, 2021 by Jbvilla909 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woody1000 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 6 hours ago, ozvillafan said: Still not a fan of 3-5-2. Now I may be wrong, but here are our results using the formation: Chelsea 0-3 Villa Villa 3-0 Everton ManUre 0-1 Villa Spurs 2-1 Villa Villa 2-3 Wolves Now the Everton result came mostly thanks to the cameo of Bailey - who doesn't feature in this formation. The way I see it, we are conceding more and winning less using this system, and we only appear to be playing it to keep Watkins and Ings both on the pitch. The sooner we ditch it the better. Hard to disagree with that unfortunately. Hopefully we can get our wide attacking players fit and get back to the 4-3-3/variations of 4-3-3 which we generally look a lot more solid when playing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Zen Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 I do hope we go back to playing 4-3-3 asap. If that means dropping one of Ings and Watkins to the bench, or asking Ollie to play out wide, then so be it. Ideally: ——————Emi——————— Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett —————-Dougie—————- ———Meatball, Morgan*—— Emi2—————————Bailey** ——————Ollie——————— *Alternate with Ramsey and/or Chuk. **Use Anwar, Jaden or even Ollie, while injured. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 31 minutes ago, Panto_Villan said: And, for what it's worth, I think we should move away from three at the back and drop Ollie to the bench. Yeah I'm there for the next game. I got the idea behind it and it looked good at times. But I think with Bailey coming back and Traore barely playing, I'd like to see us resort back to wingers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MWARLEY2 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 And watching Watkins and Ings together . Its like watching the exact opposite of Yorke and Cole. Its the non partnership. Its where both forget the other is on the pitch. I was willing to give it time but they are getting worse as a partnership not better. Ollie looks so sullen and moody and Ings looks so frustrated. It just does not work at this point in time. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 3 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: And watching Watkins and Ings together . Its like watching the exact opposite of Yorke and Cole. Its the non partnership. Its where both forget the other is on the pitch. I was willing to give it time but they are getting worse as a partnership not better. Ollie looks so sullen and moody and Ings looks so frustrated. It just does not work at this point in time. Don't know Ollie for shit but I just get the sense of him not fancying playing in a pair or this formation. He is looking very selfish at the moment and is not looking to be linking up with Ings. I think he wants to be THE guy. Edited October 17, 2021 by villalad21 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Sick to death of back 5. Relying on Cash and Targett to create - so limited and poor. Look like Stoke when we can’t create and start relying on long throws. The back 4 was fine and working well, Mings and Konsa working well together. Our captain has lost his discipline in this back 5. Tuanzebe dross, Hause inconsistent and unreliable, poor on the ball. We don’t need to play with 5 bloody defenders. All because we want to shoehorn in two CFs who don’t work well together. Damaging us. Stop messing around and experimenting, return to a back 4 and allow our best players such as Buendia & Bailey (absolutely key for us and need to play regularly) to create and attack. I’d rather play Traore with them than continue to force Ollie & Ings to play together. They hinder each other. I know we’ve had injuries and absences but I still don’t see an excuse or validation for this formation. We’ve gone backwards. Ramsey’s place is on the bench. Still pissed off after yday, we were poor against Spurs too. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 4 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: And watching Watkins and Ings together . Its like watching the exact opposite of Yorke and Cole. Its the non partnership. Its where both forget the other is on the pitch. I was willing to give it time but they are getting worse as a partnership not better. Ollie looks so sullen and moody and Ings looks so frustrated. It just does not work at this point in time. At times it was like playing with two completely different sets of ten men. Like when your mates split up, and they only socialise with the group when the other one isn't there. There were one or two passages of play they were both involved in separately, but I honestly can't remember them actually linking up and passing the ball to each other Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) I think it's time to switch back. I got why we tried it and it initially worked better than expected. But with Bailey back soon and Traore yet to start a game, we need to switch back and have those quality wingers. Bailey, Buendia and Traore behind either of our strikers should cause problems. Edited October 17, 2021 by DCJonah 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
It's Your Round Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 3 minutes ago, Jas10 said: Sick to death of back 5. Relying on Cash and Targett to create - so limited and poor. Look like Stoke when we can’t create and start relying on long throws. The back 4 was fine and working well, Mings and Konsa working well together. Our captain has lost his discipline in this back 5. Tuanzebe dross, Hause inconsistent and unreliable, poor on the ball. We don’t need to play with 5 bloody defenders. All because we want to shoehorn in two CFs who don’t work well together. Damaging us. Stop messing around and experimenting, return to a back 4 and allow our best players such as Buendia & Bailey (absolutely key for us and need to play regularly) to create and attack. I’d rather play Traore with them than continue to force Ollie & Ings to play together. They hinder each other. I know we’ve had injuries and absences but I still don’t see an excuse or validation for this formation. We’ve gone backwards. Ramsey’s place is on the bench. Still pissed off after yday, we were poor against Spurs too. I haven’t commented at all on yesterdays game, I haven’t had the enthusiasm to bother typing my thoughts out. However, if I did, it would be very similar to this! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eastie Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 26 minutes ago, El Zen said: I do hope we go back to playing 4-3-3 asap. If that means dropping one of Ings and Watkins to the bench, or asking Ollie to play out wide, then so be it. Ideally: ——————Emi——————— Cash, Konsa, Mings, Targett —————-Dougie—————- ———Meatball, Morgan*—— Emi2—————————Bailey** ——————Ollie——————— *Alternate with Ramsey and/or Chuk. **Use Anwar, Jaden or even Ollie, while injured. I’d go for that team but with ings as striker , not ollie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just go back to 4 2 3 1. We were flying with that formation last year. Lose grealish and change the whole formation? Watkins out wide Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jas10 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Just now, GingerCollins29 said: Just go back to 4 2 3 1. We were flying with that formation last year. Lose grealish and change the whole formation? Watkins out wide Or 4 3 3 There was no need to tinker, it’s set us back. 5 defenders is negative and limited. We don’t have high quality attacking WBs either. Our back 4 was fine. Let the attackers create. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 6 minutes ago, MWARLEY2 said: And watching Watkins and Ings together . Its like watching the exact opposite of Yorke and Cole. Its the non partnership. Its where both forget the other is on the pitch. I was willing to give it time but they are getting worse as a partnership not better. Ollie looks so sullen and moody and Ings looks so frustrated. It just does not work at this point in time. A huge problem is playing Cash and Targett as some sort of creative wingers. Cash tries to hard and forgets we have 2 strikers awaiting the ball. Targett although a great defender is awful at crossing the ball, 95% of the time yesterday the ball went to the opposition, an to be fair he shouldn't be playing this role. To me watching the game, it was a mess at the front, no one seemed to know what they were supposed to be doing. Watkins could have been benched yesterday and it would have made no difference. At the back I think Mings had a Mings and Hause should 100% have been in there. Subs, far to much reliance on Ramsey, like he is some sort of player. Watching him every week he does a job but is very ordinary and not someone you want to bring on to save a game. Smith's struggling tactically and It's obvious he is trying too hard with the front 2 as he would never want to drop Watkins and I'm sure Ing's coming in has had his promises. I worry bailey is going to be Smith's new Grealish coming to save the day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MaVilla Posted October 17, 2021 Author Share Posted October 17, 2021 (edited) 11 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think it's time to switch back. I got why we tried it and it initially worked better than expected. But with Bailey back soon and Traore yet to start a game, we need to switch back and have those quality wingers. Bailey, Buendia and Traore behind either of our strikers should cause problems. i think with the 343 type formation, and im super surprised to hear myself say this, but i have come to the conclusion that our "wing backs" just arent good enough and actually hinder our play and offer little creativity. I think both Targett and Cash are great full backs, and if you had asked me 2 months ago if they could play wing backs, i would have 100% said yes. However, i think its clear that Targett just isnt mobile enough to play a marauding wing back, and surprisingly i also dont think Cash is good enough either considering he used to play as a midfielder, he slows the play down, always likes to stop and stand over the ball, passes backwards often when there were opportunities to be progressive, and when he gets the chance to cross 90% of the time its an awful cross. we really need to go back to the 433 or 4231, we lack creativity in the 343, i think the formation is a great formation, but i just think we dont have the players to play it well.....or we do and our players are badly coached to play the system correctly. I also question our back 3, i know a lot of people had rose tinted glasses over Tuanzebe, but i really havent been impressed with him. Edited October 17, 2021 by MaVilla 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 Please ditch the 5-3-2. I guess the main reason is to get Ollie and Ings on the pitch together but I think they’ve scored a goal each in this system. Clearly not having the desired effect and leaves our talented wingers either out of the team or playing out of position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sne Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 5-3-2 can be OK for certain games, like if when Konsa is not playing. But it probably needs Young playing instead of Targett and so far at least the Ings/Watkins pairing is not clicking so I'd try Bailey instead of one of them when he's back fit. For now thou especially once Bailey is back i'd go 4-3-3. Watkins starts over Ings depending on form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GingerCollins29 Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 38 minutes ago, villabromsgrove said: I'm guessing that most of us think Southgate is the weak link in a talented England set up. For some reason Smith has adopted Southgate's tactical set up and continues to make similar negative substitutions. His in game management is similar to Southgate's in that it lacks proactive positivity. Dean is well liked by his players but lacks the gravitas to make the players afraid to under perform. This is another GS trait. Southgate isn't getting sacked anytime soon and I suspect neither is Smith, but the similarities between the two do not fill me with confidence that Dean has it in him to take us to the next step in NSWE's planned journey. As others have said NSWE will make their own decision. Yet Smith was praised for his subs against united, bringing on archer at 0-0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted October 17, 2021 Share Posted October 17, 2021 15 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: A huge problem is playing Cash and Targett as some sort of creative wingers. Cash tries to hard and forgets we have 2 strikers awaiting the ball. Targett although a great defender is awful at crossing the ball, 95% of the time yesterday the ball went to the opposition, an to be fair he shouldn't be playing this role. To me watching the game, it was a mess at the front, no one seemed to know what they were supposed to be doing. Watkins could have been benched yesterday and it would have made no difference. At the back I think Mings had a Mings and Hause should 100% have been in there. Subs, far to much reliance on Ramsey, like he is some sort of player. Watching him every week he does a job but is very ordinary and not someone you want to bring on to save a game. Smith's struggling tactically and It's obvious he is trying too hard with the front 2 as he would never want to drop Watkins and I'm sure Ing's coming in has had his promises. I worry bailey is going to be Smith's new Grealish coming to save the day. You worry that an expensive, quality new signing, is going to make all the difference when he returns and can finally play? The hatred at this point is so funny. You're going to actually resent a new player coming in and doing well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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