bobzy Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 FWIW, I thought we looked good against Wolves playing this formation up until about the 70th minute when it all went wrong. There's nothing really "wrong" with it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: I think there may be an element of truth to this, which should be tempered by how poor Chelsea have looked in many games this season. They're a quality team, there's no denying that, and they're grinding out results, but they got played off the pitch by Brentford, and it took some very late goals to beat a ten man Southampton. They're top, so I can see why we wanted to take some positives from it, but we shouldn't be taking too much from that It did also work well against Man Unitd, but, well, Ole's at the wheel. Yeah, I agree with that. 3 CBs suited the Chelsea game. TT seems to have a different style of play to normal PL teams, it is more like Italian football imo. He is happy to soak up pressure and knows he has the quality to score when the situations arise. This was demonstrated perfectly against us and they beat us 3-0 and we all felt great about the performance. Bees showed that teams can look good against Chelsea and they lost too. Chelsea are clinical with have a super organised back line with a great GK, its no wonder they are top of the league Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 I love this formation! Was an article saying how it’s allowed McGinn to up his game, which he has done immensely. Nothing wrong with the formation, it’s pretty flexible, think it suits us no end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 38 minutes ago, bobzy said: FWIW, I thought we looked good against Wolves playing this formation up until about the 70th minute when it all went wrong. There's nothing really "wrong" with it. I agree with the last part, we just dont have the players to play it for me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Peter Griffin said: But if it is something that we have not struggled with before then that would surely suggest coaching? Maybe our back five just need more time playing as a back 5. Other than this season, I think the only time we played back 5 was when we were away to Burnley and Wes and Heaton got their injuries. If I recall correctly we played 2 or 3 games with 3 CBs then and that Burnley game was Jan 1st 2020. How can it be coaching if its the same players ? Are you suggesting they forgot everything they learnt? I agree playing a back 5 could be an issue but it doesn’t explain the way we struggled dealing with 2nd phase set pieces. Something we’ve been generally good at for a while. Which suggests to me Saturdays collapse was an exception rather than the norm. It feels on here we are regularly falling apart like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ferguson1 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Are we seeing some of the “Terry” affect so far this season? With him gone, who is now doing the defensive coaching and analysing the mistakes? Just a thought. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 Just now, Vive_La_Villa said: How can it be coaching if its the same players ? Are you suggesting they forgot everything they learnt? I agree playing a back 5 could be an issue but it doesn’t explain the way we struggled dealing with 2nd phase set pieces. Something we’ve been generally good at for a while. Which suggests to me Saturdays collapse was an exception rather than the norm. It feels on here we are regularly falling apart like that. I am not suggesting that they are forgetting things. More along the lines of losing ROK and JT and brining in new coaches so different ideas and trying different things. Then, add in a new formation and our CBs and F/B are now all playing in a different position on the pitch to what they have become accustomed to. After a few years playing in the same position you will inherently know where on the pitch u should be and what area u need to cover etc. However, this has changed and positional awareness, particularly when we are under pressure tends to rely on the subconscious. But our players subconscious has them somewhere else and with a slightly different role. This could cause confusion and help to introduce mistakes and the overall result would make us look a mess. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 minute ago, Peter Griffin said: I am not suggesting that they are forgetting things. More along the lines of losing ROK and JT and brining in new coaches so different ideas and trying different things. Then, add in a new formation and our CBs and F/B are now all playing in a different position on the pitch to what they have become accustomed to. After a few years playing in the same position you will inherently know where on the pitch u should be and what area u need to cover etc. However, this has changed and positional awareness, particularly when we are under pressure tends to rely on the subconscious. But our players subconscious has them somewhere else and with a slightly different role. This could cause confusion and help to introduce mistakes and the overall result would make us look a mess. If we continue to concede goals in that manner then I’ll agree there’s a problem. I still think it’s just a one off. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, ferguson1 said: Are we seeing some of the “Terry” affect so far this season? With him gone, who is now doing the defensive coaching and analysing the mistakes? Just a thought. Didn't we just hire a set piece coach? We conceded 3 goals from set pieces against Wolves. Not a good look for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 22 minutes ago, villalad21 said: Didn't we just hire a set piece coach? We conceded 3 goals from set pieces against Wolves. Not a good look for him. I was wondering how anyone could suggest his coaching could be scrutinised for the 3rd goal then I remembered you don’t actually watch games Im sure he’ll be working with the players going through what happened. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villalad21 Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 2 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: I agree with this in the most part I think most do. I would play El Ghazi right now despite what people thinks of him. Bailey/Traore obviously replaces him when they return. Emi on the right. 2 box to box midfielders in front of Luiz. That would be McGinn and Sanson/Ramsey. If Dean is so dead and adamant on playing Ings and Watkins I would sacrifice one of the CM'S and play Ings just behind Ollie. I still don't like that but it's still better that 5-3-2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 5 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: Fair play, and that's how fine the margins are. However, if I'm honest, that is the point I was trying to make about certain players in an earlier post. The more you want to improve, the finer those margins are, consistent brain farts won't cut it. We win that, and were on 13 points, in 7th and VT is a much happier place. Reckless/careless and naive play from a couple of our players, and all of a sudden we have zero points and are sat in 12th . The buck does stop with the manager, but there are certain things you've got to make the SENIOR players accountable for. Deano couldn't have created that collapse on his own if he tried, IMO. This is where posters will disagree. The defending was atrocious at the end but who is accountable? Smith as manager? Mings as captain? All of the defenders? Smith’s subs may have been enforced but they didn’t work so of course he will cop the blame. I also think Smith is to blame for constantly playing this 5 at the back to get Tuanzebe in who was our worst defender on Saturday. I am not sure certain individuals in our defence are good enough but smith signed them. Either way I hope we go to a back 4 from now on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 12 minutes ago, foreveryoung said: Smith said there will be no need for transition period. We then lost to crappy Watford. Bailey being out is his only defence maybe. But then maybe your heading again to a one man team. Buendia has barely been fit until few ago. Traore 14 goal contributions last season has been injured a lot. Sanson as well Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, Stevo985 said: I don't really care what Smith said. Managers say all sorts of stuff. If you really thought we were going to hit the ground running this season after losing the best player we've had in 30 years who everything went through then you're mental. We wouldn't lose to Watford if we played them now. Whilst I agree that losing Jack was always going to have an impact I do not think we’ve struggled that much from an attacking perspective. We are still creating chances. The disappointing part has been the manner of some of the goals we have conceded. Especially Saturday. Very sloppy but something I think can be sorted out. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foreveryoung Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Whilst I agree that losing Jack was always going to have an impact I do not think we’ve struggled that much from an attacking perspective. We are still creating chances. The disappointing part has been the manner of some of the goals we have conceded. Especially Saturday. Very sloppy but something I think can be sorted out. Not really, when you think we have 2 prolific strikers hanging about for service. Target and cash being the creative wingers don't help of course. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 11 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said: Whilst I agree that losing Jack was always going to have an impact I do not think we’ve struggled that much from an attacking perspective. We are still creating chances. The disappointing part has been the manner of some of the goals we have conceded. Especially Saturday. Very sloppy but something I think can be sorted out. Only 7 teams have scored more Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaFaninLondon Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 16 minutes ago, Zatman said: Buendia has barely been fit until few ago. Traore 14 goal contributions last season has been injured a lot. Sanson as well Buendia only missed one match day squad when he was on Argentina duty, Traore has only missed 3 match days squads and even when fit smith didn’t start him and only brought on as sub. Sanson I agree but he’s barely played since he joined in January. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peter Griffin Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Vive_La_Villa said: I was wondering how anyone could suggest his coaching could be scrutinised for the 3rd goal then I remembered you don’t actually watch games Im sure he’ll be working with the players going through what happened. Surely we should be practicing deflected free kicks and how to defend against them when they send the ball completely the opposite direction 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nicho Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 15 hours ago, TRO said: centre midfield would be overrun, even more than it is, playing 442 I don’t disagree but I think it would get more out of Watkins and Ings. The only way both continue to play is with Watkins on the wing. Buendia caused another headache yesterday. A full 4231 is the only way to get our best players on the pitch at the same time. A nice headache to have options but Smith needs to make the right decisions now, Arsenal and West Ham are going to be hard games. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted October 18, 2021 Share Posted October 18, 2021 6 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said: Buendia only missed one match day squad when he was on Argentina duty, Traore has only missed 3 match days squads and even when fit smith didn’t start him and only brought on as sub. Sanson I agree but he’s barely played since he joined in January. Buendia missed a lot of pre-season so did Traore, they were catching up on fitness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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