Recruitment

[Zatman]

57 minutes ago, Sulberto21 said:

You……

Purslow leaking them articles to Football Insider lining up his mate

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

On 21/09/2023 at 17:07, Tomaszk said:

Proof will be in the pudding.

Plenty of clubs around and well below us had this and more 5-10 years ago. Not all have had success.

Hoping Monchi sorts us out.

Heard a commentator in the Brighton match showing a bloke in the stands.

Apparently he is the one in charge of their whole analytics, data, player, systems setup etc.

They said apprently the process is " top secret " and isn't even owned by the club, but hired. They mentioned him ( Or him and company ) as the reason they don't miss a beat even after losing players and staff.

Wondering if we are going down a similar route.

As you say though, yeah proof will be in the pudding, but we should have more resources to do this effectively than alot of other clubs successfully hopefully.

[Jas10]

11 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Heard a commentator in the Brighton match showing a bloke in the stands.

Apparently he is the one in charge of their whole analytics, data, player, systems setup etc.

They said apprently the process is " top secret " and isn't even owned by the club, but hired. They mentioned him ( Or him and company ) as the reason they don't miss a beat even after losing players and staff.

Wondering if we are going down a similar route.

As you say though, yeah proof will be in the pudding, but we should have more resources to do this effectively than alot of other clubs successfully hopefully.

[Sulberto21]

1 hour ago, Jas10 said:

Actual footage of Gerrard and Purslow getting in Kamara.

[thunderball]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Heard a commentator in the Brighton match showing a bloke in the stands.

Apparently he is the one in charge of their whole analytics, data, player, systems setup etc.

They said apprently the process is " top secret " and isn't even owned by the club, but hired. They mentioned him ( Or him and company ) as the reason they don't miss a beat even after losing players and staff.

Wondering if we are going down a similar route.

As you say though, yeah proof will be in the pudding, but we should have more resources to do this effectively than alot of other clubs successfully hopefully.

It’s a dedicated sporting analytics company Starlizard (related to his gambling interests) owned by Tony Bloom, their owner. Bloom made his money in the world of Sports/Gambling, Starlizard is employed by Brighton for their data on players. I guess Lange and his team fulfill the same function, however I suggest not quite on the same scale as Bloom’s company which is a sporting consultancy.

[wishywashy]

4 hours ago, thunderball said:

It’s a dedicated sporting analytics company Starlizard (related to his gambling interests) owned by Tony Bloom, their owner. Bloom made his money in the world of Sports/Gambling, Starlizard is employed by Brighton for their data on players. I guess Lange and his team fulfill the same function, however I suggest not quite on the same scale as Bloom’s company which is a sporting consultancy.

Brentford with Matthew Benham has the same background and company linkup through Smartodds. Having the ability to make and shape your own highly specialised proprietary data using these firms is such huge advantage when pretty much any professional club can get access to heaps of high quality data super easily nowadays.

You also have that data culture from the top down which is so important. There are plenty of cases in football where top data analytics departments are simply ignored in decision making. Man United are easily the highest profile ongoing example of that, and Barcelona have fallen foul to doing the same quite a lot over the years.

I think we have something to this effect in place with Frederik Leth's Football Research department (worked with/hired by Lange a few years ago) and Arjav Trivedi (ex FIFA and Arsenal data engineer). As you say though, a several person strong internal data department (with cogs that can be identified and poached) can't really be compared to a second party sporting analytics firm with 100+ employees.

[CVByrne]

Mings, Konsa, Luiz - 2019

Cash, Martinez, Watkins - 2020

So brilliant signings by the club in those two windows

[Condimentalist]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Mings, Konsa, Luiz - 2019

Cash, Martinez, Watkins - 2020

So brilliant signings by the club in those two windows

Another testament to Deano's fabulous legacy. 

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Mings, Konsa, Luiz - 2019

Cash, Martinez, Watkins - 2020

So brilliant signings by the club in those two windows

Leaves out all the distinctly average players we also signed in 2019. Also 2019 was a different team of recruitment staff.

Also leaves out 2021 window of Ings, Bailey, and Buendia. And while Bailey and Buendia are useful players, they have failed to really nail down a first team place, and their goals and assists figures have not been good enough.

Not convinced be Lange to be honest. 

[villa4europe]

3 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Leaves out all the distinctly average players we also signed in 2019. Also 2019 was a different team of recruitment staff.

Also leaves out 2021 window of Ings, Bailey, and Buendia. And while Bailey and Buendia are useful players, they have failed to really nail down a first team place, and their goals and assists figures have not been good enough.

Not convinced be Lange to be honest. 

the thing is though that we signed players that we needed to fill out the squad and for the purpose of just surviving and getting us up the table, we were always going to have a high turnover of players, the reality is Hause who we signed to be 4th choice CB in an attempt to avoid relegation was never going to be also be our 4th choice CB in an attempt to get CL, same with trez, el ghazi etc etc

but they're not bad signings, they served their purpose

agree with 2021 though, the 3 of them were just ok

lange has also seemingly done very well at youth level, he signed kellyman, kerr, bogarde, feeney, wilson and did various good bits of work contracts wise

[Philosopher]

53 minutes ago, villa4europe said:

the thing is though that we signed players that we needed to fill out the squad and for the purpose of just surviving and getting us up the table, we were always going to have a high turnover of players, the reality is Hause who we signed to be 4th choice CB in an attempt to avoid relegation was never going to be also be our 4th choice CB in an attempt to get CL, same with trez, el ghazi etc etc

but they're not bad signings, they served their purpose

agree with 2021 though, the 3 of them were just ok

lange has also seemingly done very well at youth level, he signed kellyman, kerr, bogarde, feeney, wilson and did various good bits of work contracts wise

Lange wasn't at the club in 2019. So that staying up season had nothing to do with him. He also had little to do with 2020 signings as he had joined the club while those deals were in the process of being made. 2021 was his first proper business, oh and Sanson.

[CVByrne]

8 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Leaves out all the distinctly average players we also signed in 2019. Also 2019 was a different team of recruitment staff.

Targett and Heaton were quality singings on the same window. 

[MWARLEY2]

Recruitment and development has been superb overall. You cannot get every signing right. In fact if you get 50% right you are doing well. You also have to match ability with character. Pointless having one without the other.

What did we spend in the first season ? £ 130 mill ? 

That included Ty Konsa and Luiz who are still here and vital members of the squad 

Second year we spent £100 mill on Watkins Martinez Cash and Traore. 3 of those still incredibly important to us.

3rd year Ings Bailey and Buendia. On paper they were a great use of the Grealish money. In reality not as good as it could have been. But still important to us and we got decent money back on a rapidly aging Ings. Plus Buendia is a strong character again. 

The most important thing here is that we have bought players that arent using us as a launchpad . The ones we want stay. They understand whst we are trying to do. The irony that the 2 players who we wanted to keep and left for the bright lights were Villa academy graduates. It says even more about the ones we have brought in from outside the club. You can put a value on skill but not on character , and the fact that they all seem v loyal is a testament to the recruitment. 

 

[Philosopher]

Never rated Targett. Though his lock down season was very good. Heaton spent most of his time here injured, so he wasn't really a good signing. We replaced him after one season.

[tinker]

Buendia was a good signing, he's a great player with a good character and him being injured has hindered our progress this season.Target and Ings,  we got good deals when we sold, Bailey is still used and has scored some important goals.

[Don_Simon]

23 hours ago, Condimentalist said:

Another testament to Deano's fabulous legacy. 

And Purslow, don't forget CP.

[CVByrne]

1 hour ago, Philosopher said:

Never rated Targett. Though his lock down season was very good. Heaton spent most of his time here injured, so he wasn't really a good signing. We replaced him after one season.

Events like injury aren't things we can judge a player for. Wesley had 5 goals in half a season for a relegation club and Heaton was excellent for us when he played. 

Also what people determine a "success" is what exactly? Is the bar you must be Luiz, Konsa, Martinez level signings? as in players who are good enough for our club right now?

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, CVByrne said:

Events like injury aren't things we can judge a player for. Wesley had 5 goals in half a season for a relegation club and Heaton was excellent for us when he played. 

Also what people determine a "success" is what exactly? Is the bar you must be Luiz, Konsa, Martinez level signings? as in players who are good enough for our club right now?

Heaton certainly wasn't a success. In fact he was a failure. Injuries are down to luck really, Villa and Heaton didn't have much luck together. Same for Wesley. Ultimately they are signing that worked out badly for both the club and the players.

In our first team group, Mings, Konsa, Luiz and McGinn were signed under previous directors of football, Martinez, Cash, and Watkins had little to do with Lange as well. Ramsey is an academy product.  Pau and Moreno are clearly Emery signing. Zaniolo is more Emery and Monchi. 

The Lange signings are Sanson, Ings, Buendia, Bailey, Carlos, Kamara, Digne, and now Tielemens and Diaby. Carlos and Tielemens the jury is still out, but I'm hopeful. Kamara and Diaby excellent signings. Sanson and Ings poor signings. Bailey and Buendia so far passable at best.

Lange has done okay, but for me the jury is still out.

[Stevo985]

3 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Heaton certainly wasn't a success. In fact he was a failure. Injuries are down to luck really, Villa and Heaton didn't have much luck together. Same for Wesley. Ultimately they are signing that worked out badly for both the club and the players.

 

Yeah but surely you must recognise that an injury doesn't effect the quality of the signing at the time. It's just luck.

If we somehow managed to sign MBappe in January and two games in he had a career ending injury, it would still be an incredible signing. It would just have been ended by bad luck

[wishywashy]

I think the likes of Heaton or Wesley you can't call either successes or failures when analysing the recruitment team, given the very clear mitigating circumstances and the short time we witnessed them play before said mitigating circumstances.

I agree with the notion that Lange did an OK job with recruitment as Sporting Director. Some good signings, some bad. Difficult to say for certain as the distribution of power felt a bit less aligned during his stint (could probably guess which signings were Smith/Gerrard, Lange, Purslow signings etc) as it does now under Emery and Monchi.