Recruitment

[Condimentalist]

5 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

And Purslow, don't forget CP.

Purslow did a good job overall but he didn't choose the players (otherwise we'd be ****, I suspect) 

[Indigo]

Obvious caveat that Transfermarkt valuations can be a bit wayward, but interesting all the same.

 

[Philosopher]

42 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Yeah but surely you must recognise that an injury doesn't effect the quality of the signing at the time. It's just luck.

If we somehow managed to sign MBappe in January and two games in he had a career ending injury, it would still be an incredible signing. It would just have been ended by bad luck

The quality of the player it doesn't affect. But regardless injuries are one of the major reasons signings don't work out.

Coutinho was a fantastic talent, still is, but his hamstrings keep tearing. So poor signing. If you sign a player with a history of injury issues, like Coutinho, like Heaton and injuries mean their transfer doesn't work out that's a poor signing.

Wesley had no history of injuries and got a nasty injury that's ruined him. Really he and Villa should sue the **** out of Ben  Mee. That's really bad luck, the signing is unsuccessful, but you can't say poor.

[Don_Simon]

23 minutes ago, Indigo said:

Obvious caveat that Transfermarkt valuations can be a bit wayward, but interesting all the same.

 

I would say Kamara and Luiz on their own are worth £180,000,000. Never mind profit we'd make on selling Martinez, Konsa, McGinn and Watkins. 

[Delphinho123]

1 hour ago, Philosopher said:

The quality of the player it doesn't affect. But regardless injuries are one of the major reasons signings don't work out.

Coutinho was a fantastic talent, still is, but his hamstrings keep tearing. So poor signing. If you sign a player with a history of injury issues, like Coutinho, like Heaton and injuries mean their transfer doesn't work out that's a poor signing.

Wesley had no history of injuries and got a nasty injury that's ruined him. Really he and Villa should sue the **** out of Ben  Mee. That's really bad luck, the signing is unsuccessful, but you can't say poor.

I take your point, but Wesley was garbage so whilst unsuccessful because of the injury, it was also a poor signing. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Philosopher said:

The quality of the player it doesn't affect. But regardless injuries are one of the major reasons signings don't work out.

Coutinho was a fantastic talent, still is, but his hamstrings keep tearing. So poor signing. If you sign a player with a history of injury issues, like Coutinho, like Heaton and injuries mean their transfer doesn't work out that's a poor signing.

Wesley had no history of injuries and got a nasty injury that's ruined him. Really he and Villa should sue the **** out of Ben  Mee. That's really bad luck, the signing is unsuccessful, but you can't say poor.

Heaton had one major injury before signing for us and before that was playing 40 games a season

[wishywashy]

I think with injuries relating to recruitment you have to take it on a case by case basis. Coutinho had a long history with injuries, everyone knew the risks involved, and said injuries happened. (Although to be fair Lange was clearly less involved with that one: had Gerrard/Purslow written all over it). On the other hand, I don't think it's fair to evaluate the recruitment using players such as Heaton when his ACL went after an innocuous, routine catch: with no prior history of knee injuries.

Also IMO even though it didn't work out on the pitch Coutinho was a signing that made a lot of sense, even with his injury history: given the position we were in at the time it was a bit of a no-brainer medium-risk, high-reward deal.

Edited September 27, 2023 by wishywashy

[CVByrne]

2 hours ago, Indigo said:

Obvious caveat that Transfermarkt valuations can be a bit wayward, but interesting all the same.

 

As a % of purchase price that would have us above City. So top 4 in terms of squad value increase as a % 

[CVByrne]

6 hours ago, Philosopher said:

Heaton certainly wasn't a success. In fact he was a failure. Injuries are down to luck really, Villa and Heaton didn't have much luck together. Same for Wesley. Ultimately they are signing that worked out badly for both the club and the players.

In our first team group, Mings, Konsa, Luiz and McGinn were signed under previous directors of football, Martinez, Cash, and Watkins had little to do with Lange as well. Ramsey is an academy product.  Pau and Moreno are clearly Emery signing. Zaniolo is more Emery and Monchi. 

The Lange signings are Sanson, Ings, Buendia, Bailey, Carlos, Kamara, Digne, and now Tielemens and Diaby. Carlos and Tielemens the jury is still out, but I'm hopeful. Kamara and Diaby excellent signings. Sanson and Ings poor signings. Bailey and Buendia so far passable at best.

Lange has done okay, but for me the jury is still out.

It seems you are having some completely other conversation about Johan Lange or something!! 

I'm just discussing the clubs recruitment as a whole which has got us a squad who are performing well today. You have come into it from an angle specifically around Lange for some reason.

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, Zatman said:

Heaton had one major injury before signing for us and before that was playing 40 games a season

It was two. And he had become Burnley's no 2. So he wasn't playing 40 games a season.

[Philosopher]

9 minutes ago, CVByrne said:

It seems you are having some completely other conversation about Johan Lange or something!! 

I'm just discussing the clubs recruitment as a whole which has got us a squad who are performing well today. You have come into it from an angle specifically around Lange for some reason.

People were praising Lange. Saying he's done a good job. My point (from the beginning) was most of our best players have nothing to do with Lange, and that the jury is still out!

[CVByrne]

14 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

People were praising Lange. Saying he's done a good job. My point (from the beginning) was most of our best players have nothing to do with Lange, and that the jury is still out!

I think Pitarch, Lange, McKenzie, Deano & Emery all deserve some credit for building the squad we have now.

As far as I'm aware from all the reporting at the time. Sanson, Kamara & Duran were players Lange pushed for strongly based on data etc..

Edited September 27, 2023 by CVByrne

[MWARLEY2]

3 hours ago, Indigo said:

Obvious caveat that Transfermarkt valuations can be a bit wayward, but interesting all the same.

 

Another measure of recruitment is to stay within ffp limits. It involves purchasing and selling at the right time at the right value to maximise  profit while minimising impact on the squad. Apart from the season after Grealish left we have not been caught short. We have not had to sell a single player we didnt want to. And lets be honest we are not a strong club in terms of revenue yet are paying top 6 salaries for the most part. That is because the recruitment had been good enough to not leave too many gaping holes in the squad make up.

 

 

[VillaJ100]

5 hours ago, Don_Simon said:

I would say Kamara and Luiz on their own are worth £180,000,000. Never mind profit we'd make on selling Martinez, Konsa, McGinn and Watkins. 

Yeah in a world where Rice is worth £105 million Doug has to be worth £130mil minimum 

[BG_Villa_Fan]

Inspired by the Trezeguet thread, I'm always surprised when reading posts about that first transfer summer in the Premier league people often say that only Luiz, Konsa and Mings were hits but so many others were as well, including Trez, El Ghazi and others. They were the right players for the time at the right price. Were they ever supposed to be in the team years later when chasing top 5/6? Not really, no. I actually doubt any of the 3 aforementioned were supposed to be if not for their immense individual improvement. But at the time, during that summer, when we had to buy a whole new squad we actually did impressively well considering the task at hand. Only Samatta and Drinkwater were failures and both were brought under pressure due to injuries. Everyone else played their role, so that we can be here now. 

Suso lost his job because of Wesley's transfer most likely, but he should get his fair share of praise for the job he did. The only issue was it was damn clear there were Suso signings and Deano signings, which probably wasn't the ideal approach. This seemingly continued in the following seasons as well.

Anyway, point is, the club's recruitment and structure have grown a lot as well and we should be more forgiving for the occasional missteps, especially having a look around at what other teams have been doing lately.

[Sulberto21]

There’s no Suso , Lange , Monchi, Deano etc signings they’re Aston Villa signings. 

Except for Coutinho he was a Slippy G signing. 

[DaveAV1]

On 27/09/2023 at 13:25, Don_Simon said:

I would say Kamara and Luiz on their own are worth £180,000,000. Never mind profit we'd make on selling Martinez, Konsa, McGinn and Watkins. 

That’s a fair point, but they’re all first team starters and would need to be replaced, but their value ti the team is higher than their sale value. I doubt we could make a profit without seriously damaging the team but then again that’s the whole point of building a good team. Football is the one business that whilst not ignoring money, isn’t judged by the bottom line but by the results on the pitch. Which is why the football manager and his support staff, coaches etc are the most important people at the club alongside players. 

[DaveAV1]

On 27/09/2023 at 12:57, Condimentalist said:

Purslow did a good job overall but he didn't choose the players (otherwise we'd be ****, I suspect) 

Agreed but unfortunately he chose the manager who chose the players and that didn’t work out too well. I’m not convinced by other aspects of his role as CEO either. There was an article in the press a few months ago that showed the club was loosing a fortune during his time as CEO. That is now impacting on our ability to be strong in the market thanks to FFP which only seems to affect us and not the oil rich clubs or Chelsea. Although I thought that one of the reasons he was employed was his apartment expertise in the subject of FFP! Not as good as he or many of the posters in here thought or continue to think he was. 

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

Inspired by the Trezeguet thread, I'm always surprised when reading posts about that first transfer summer in the Premier league people often say that only Luiz, Konsa and Mings were hits but so many others were as well, including Trez, El Ghazi and others. They were the right players for the time at the right price. Were they ever supposed to be in the team years later when chasing top 5/6? Not really, no. I actually doubt any of the 3 aforementioned were supposed to be if not for their immense individual improvement. But at the time, during that summer, when we had to buy a whole new squad we actually did impressively well considering the task at hand. Only Samatta and Drinkwater were failures and both were brought under pressure due to injuries. Everyone else played their role, so that we can be here now. 

Suso lost his job because of Wesley's transfer most likely, but he should get his fair share of praise for the job he did. The only issue was it was damn clear there were Suso signings and Deano signings, which probably wasn't the ideal approach. This seemingly continued in the following seasons as well.

Anyway, point is, the club's recruitment and structure have grown a lot as well and we should be more forgiving for the occasional missteps, especially having a look around at what other teams have been doing lately.

Apparently Suso had a fall out with Purslow(unsurprising) about transfers and recruiting

Was a story that when Deano was under pressure in 2020 Suso wanted to hire Lage but Purslow wanted his mate

[VillaChris]

1 hour ago, BG_Villa_Fan said:

Inspired by the Trezeguet thread, I'm always surprised when reading posts about that first transfer summer in the Premier league people often say that only Luiz, Konsa and Mings were hits but so many others were as well, including Trez, El Ghazi and others. They were the right players for the time at the right price. Were they ever supposed to be in the team years later when chasing top 5/6? Not really, no. I actually doubt any of the 3 aforementioned were supposed to be if not for their immense individual improvement. But at the time, during that summer, when we had to buy a whole new squad we actually did impressively well considering the task at hand. Only Samatta and Drinkwater were failures and both were brought under pressure due to injuries. Everyone else played their role, so that we can be here now. 

Suso lost his job because of Wesley's transfer most likely, but he should get his fair share of praise for the job he did. The only issue was it was damn clear there were Suso signings and Deano signings, which probably wasn't the ideal approach. This seemingly continued in the following seasons as well.

Anyway, point is, the club's recruitment and structure have grown a lot as well and we should be more forgiving for the occasional missteps, especially having a look around at what other teams have been doing lately.

Didn't Suso want N'zonzi in that January and had agreed the deal with Sevilla but DS had met Drinkwater and for some reason wanted to sign him instead?

Reina was another who got loads of stick in his early games for us but he was really crucial in the last 4-5 matches when we only conceded twice so that was a clever signing.

I think the main issue with the summer 2019 signings were we just didn't sign enough experience which you need in the first year back up. Of course at the time it was said we needed to sign younger players but some of them like Engels and Gulibert quickly fell out of favour so no guarantee with that approach they'll all develop like Konsa and Luiz have.

We were also massively understocked at CF with Wes the only signing there and backups being Kodj (who had declined and would go in January) and Davis.