The Hawk Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, Kiwivillan said: They outlawed cannonball tackle in rugby league due to danger to ACL injuries as far as I'm aware. How is scissor tackle that results in what happened to Wesley allowed. Won the ball is bollocks. You can't go through the back of someone and win the ball. Mee has history. Ref was a disgrace to let that go I suggest you watch the footage again... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) 19 minutes ago, DCJonah said: I think Kodjia is poor and said so when I said we should still try him. Love the idea that a 20 minute cameo, coming on while the team is under pressure, having played only minutes of premier league football previously, now proves everything yet Wes playing every single game still is up for debate. Brilliant. So why does "the team being under pressure" give Kodjia a pass/excuse, but the team being all round shite, under pressure, not being able to pass to each other, get out of their own half or supply support to the attacking line for the past 7 or 8 games not aid to Wesley's form or get consideration? It seems we all selectively account for these things when it suits our narrative. I mean according to you guys the team was shite and underpressure because of the striker being shite and not making the ball "stick" up front so inviting pressure etc. So shouldn't he have been able to ease the pressure? Those are the conditions Wes has been playing under most of the time. Edited January 2, 2020 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This is Mee's 3rd or 4th offence. He wins the ball but is out of control and scissors Wesley for no reason. The FA need to take a long look at his conduct. That challenge was way too aggressive and he wanted to make an impact on Wesley that is why he was so aggressive in the challenge. Now, I know there are many old-schoolers who will say it was a great tackle - I'm one of them - but, you see this kind of challenge regularly being punished by referees where they say that getting the ball simply isn't a good enough reason for injuring a player. That tackle was only ever going to result in Wesley getting hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 18 minutes ago, Villan_of_oz said: Kodjia didn't even put in, he didn't put the team first. He barely jogged. He is in no shape to lead the line of PL club. Sorry if that doesn't suit the narrative. To be clear I'm not saying Wes is amazing just the alternative is way way worse!! And likewise I don't think anyone said kodjia was the answer. Wes had a 12 game run of not scoring. A 5 game period where he hit the target once. I still don't think it was crazy to suggest a change during that period. 3 pts and a good performance against Burnley doesn't change anything that went before it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, Five Ken McNaughts said: Is it not possible that the previous criticism of Wesley and yesterday's criticism of Kodjia are both correct? Perhaps, always usually somewhere in the middle, the truth. However we all skew things to suit our individual arguments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: So why does "the team being under pressure" give Kodjia a pass/excuse, but the team being all round shite, under pressure, not being able to pass to each other, get out of their own half or supply support to the attacking line for the past 7 or 8 games not aid to Wesley's form or get consideration? It seems we all selectively account for these things when it suits our narrative. I mean according to you guys the team was shite and underpressure because of the striker being shite and not making the ball "stick" up front so inviting pressure etc. So shouldn't he have been able to ease the pressure? Those are the conditions Wes has been playing under most of the time. It's not an excuse. Kodjia was shit when he came on yesterday 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Five Ken McNaughts Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 10 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: This is Mee's 3rd or 4th offence. He wins the ball but is out of control and scissors Wesley for no reason. The FA need to take a long look at his conduct. Agreed. Though after seeing Aaron Cresswell's straight red absurdly downgraded to a yellow by VAR, it seems the current trend is towards encouraging the "but I got the ball" scissors tackle rather than punishing it. More staggering ineptitude from the clowns in the booth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 'Getting the ball' does not mean something wasn't a foul. Much like 'there was contact' does not mean something was a foul. Honestly, the overall standard of officiating we have from the very top to the 4th officials is the absolute worst I've ever seen it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 These are my thoughts on the Wesley v Kodjia scenario: Wesley is young and new to the country/league etc and is keen and eager to impress and do well but has struggled to adapt so far but yesterday showed that he is a threat and can score when given a chance. Kodjia has had his time here, clearly isn't seen as good enough by Smith and Co and, plays like he hasn't a care in the world. In fact, yesterday's substitute performance gave the impression that he knows he is going this month. We must bring in another striker. If we could buy one and loan the other I'd be up for that. If Wesley isn't out for too long I'd like to see us get Benteke in on loan until the end of the season. I think he could help young Wesley to settle in. He came from the same league to play here, at a similar age and can maybe help him to settle down and adapt to the rigours of the Premier League. I think we'd also bring someone in who would try harder for the club when given a chance due to how he was loved here in the past. I'm not saying he's the answer to our problems but I wouldn't mind him as back-up instead of Kodjia and Davis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brummybloke Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said: So why does "the team being under pressure" give Kodjia a pass/excuse, but the team being all round shite, under pressure, not being able to pass to each other, get out of their own half or supply support to the attacking line for the past 7 or 8 games not aid to Wesley's form or get consideration? It seems we all selectively account for these things when it suits our narrative. I mean according to you guys the team was shite and underpressure because of the striker being shite and not making the ball "stick" up front so inviting pressure etc. So shouldn't he have been able to ease the pressure? Those are the conditions Wes has been playing under most of the time. I dont think anyone is saying kodja did himself any favours. But the intensity from the first half had completely gone at the start of the 2nd half, without being nasty to wes, if he had shown the same intensity he did in the first half, he would have been at the ball quicker for the foul. The whole team in the second half stopped challenging stopped winning the 2nd ball, that was with wes on the pitch too. It was no worse than wes has played for entire games for months, so while kodja was poor, 25 minutes of poor is hardly the same as 1000 plus minutes of being poor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mat Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 (edited) There's no doubt that Mee's intention was to clatter Wesley with the follow through. It was a classic reducer, trying to rough him up and lessen his impact on the game. I love to see big challenges but not at the cost of seeing some young players career put at risk. To top it off the the Burnley fans booing and calling him a w*nker as he was stretchered off was classless. Edited January 2, 2020 by The Other Mat 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, The Other Mat said: There's no doubt that Mee's intention was to clatter Wesley with the follow through. It was a classic reducer, trying to rough him up and lessen his impact on the game. I love to see big challenges but not at the cost of seeing some young players career put at risk. To top it off the the Burnley fans booing and calling him a w*nker as he was stretchered off was classless. Agree - although in Mee’s defence he’s done it in the “fairest” way possible in that it was a fifty-fifty ball that was there to be won rather than a tackle from behind as some are claiming. The fact that Wes has come away injured makes it seem worse, but his leg was unfortunately planted awkwardly and resulted in a hyperextension. Plenty of similar tackles occur where the players get up straight away and get on with it unscathed (if a little rattled). Theres a camera angle of the tackle filmed over by the touchline where it occurred and you can clearly see Mee had all eyes for the ball whereas generally if the intent is to seriously injure you usually see the perpetrators take a glance to see where their victim is right before making the challenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 A scissor is a scissor is a scissor. You don't jump in like that unless you want to hurt someone. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Other Mat Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 6 minutes ago, The Hawk said: Agree - although in Mee’s defence he’s done it in the “fairest” way possible in that it was a fifty-fifty ball that was there to be won rather than a tackle from behind as some are claiming. The fact that Wes has come away injured makes it seem worse, but his leg was unfortunately planted awkwardly and resulted in a hyperextension. Plenty of similar tackles occur where the players get up straight away and get on with it unscathed (if a little rattled). Theres a camera angle of the tackle filmed over by the touchline where it occurred and you can clearly see Mee had all eyes for the ball whereas generally if the intent is to seriously injure you usually see the perpetrators take a glance to see where their victim is right before making the challenge. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I cant. His eyes were on the ball but he is still seeing Wesley's legs. Obviously I don't think he meant to destroy his knee, but the intention was there to give Wesley a knock, thats enough for it to be considered dangerous and bordering on wreckless. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Hawk Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 5 minutes ago, The Other Mat said: I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I cant. His eyes were on the ball but he is still seeing Wesley's legs. Obviously I don't think he meant to destroy his knee, but the intention was there to give Wesley a knock, thats enough for it to be considered dangerous and bordering on wreckless. Red card worthy? I’d hate to be a defender if so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villan_of_oz Posted January 2, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted January 2, 2020 1 hour ago, DCJonah said: And likewise I don't think anyone said kodjia was the answer. Wes had a 12 game run of not scoring. A 5 game period where he hit the target once. I still don't think it was crazy to suggest a change during that period. 3 pts and a good performance against Burnley doesn't change anything that went before it. My original post was anyone demanding Kodjia is the answer looks silly. You keep talking about Wes's performances but I'm talking about Kodjia's.... I agree we could've given Wes a rest IF we had someone competing for his spot.... Which we don't. I hope Ive clarified my point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hippo Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 Have we got a recall option on Hogan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Danishlad Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 50 minutes ago, The Hawk said: Red card worthy? I’d hate to be a defender if so Red card all day long for me, could end his career. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sir_gary_cahill Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, hippo said: Have we got a recall option on Hogan. He was out his depth in The Championship Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
praisedmambo Posted January 2, 2020 Share Posted January 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, hippo said: Have we got a recall option on Hogan. **** that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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