The Hawk

Fair enough, each to their own. I’d rather see us kick on and establish ourselves in the top echelons of both English and European football than win a 3rd tier trophy that West Ham won last season.

Am I the only one thinking that the Conference league has to take a back seat after England’s results last night all but ruled out a 5th Champions League spot? Brentford on the weekend now has more importance than this game in my eyes so personally id be starting the likes of Iroegbunam and Duran this evening.

Every week we complain about how rubbish the referees are in the UK and that they favour the big sides. But i've never seen a more incompetent refereeing performance in my entire life. He wasn't biased, just blatantly incorrect for an unbelievable amount of decisions. It was like watching the referee from Balls of Steel...

I think that’s exactly what they think. As much as I respect the FA Cup, our current league position (and even the conference knockouts) is far more important in my eyes.

Agree on the hospitalisations argument, much more compelling than the transmission argument. How likely is a professional footballer in their 20s to end up hospitalised with Covid? It does happen, but in exceptionally rare numbers. On that basis, if a player doesn’t want a vaccine because they are concerned with long term effects for example, I personally don’t believe the circumstances deserve vitriol and hatred.

With all due respect Stevo, that is not how it works. It caps out long before reaching such numbers as the previously infected aren’t continually reinfected. Nor did I frame this as a reason not to get vaccinated. I framed it as a reason to not blame all of our COVID woes on the unvaccinated. Those sorts of irrational accusations belong in the post-match threads

You’re correct in that the initial virus was roughly 3 as you say, Alpha strain roughly 4-5 and Delta 5-8. The difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant because in both scenarios, everyone will still eventually be infected, which isn’t necessarily the worst thing if we can manage severe outcomes (hospitalisations/deaths) via treatment protocols. Like other viruses, if the above pattern continues then over time it will become more transmissible but less deadly. Circling back to why I agree with the likes of Villalad, based on the above it isn’t going away and we must learn to live with this. Freaking out over cases and shutting down is an outdated approach.

I never thought I’d be entering a vaccine debate on VillaTalk let alone agreeing with Villalad21 but here we are. Some frighteningly simplistic viewpoints being put forward in this thread eg false equivalences comparing all vaccines as the same - they’re not... The more traditional protein-based vaccines in most cases provide sterilising immunity whereas mRNA Covid vaccines barely reduce transmission and are more of a therapy designed to reduce symptoms. A close associate of mine develops vaccines and believes the basic reproduction number (R nought) of a COVID vaccinated person at the height of their immunity period (note: these vaccines quickly wane) is roughly 5 whereas for an unvaccinated person it is 6, meaning an unvaccinated person is likely to pass on the virus to one more person than a vaccinated person at their peak immunity. Exponential mathematics show the difference between 5 vs 6 is irrelevant. Bill Gates himself says so below. I’m all for vaccinations, but blaming the unvaccinated for all our problems is a lazy, uninformed and divisive stance. We need better vaccines (or other therapeutics) before that argument stands up.

We’ve had the exact same journey my friend.

Is that why up until tonight we and Leicester were the only remaining teams that had a 100% win record after scoring first??? What a load of nonsense.

Spot on

Woah woah woah... Careful bringing those sorts of realistic expectations and rational thinking here, this thread does not tolerate it.

He would be expensive

People who can’t move on

Triple post

Double post

Their foundations were built. Ours weren’t. We needed to buy a whole new team. They didn’t.

It’s well documented that Purslow said that the expectation/aim was to be promoted within two seasons once Smith took the helm. Setting a goal is not the same as “determining when we will get promoted”. Boards set goals, that’s a basic fact. Smith achieved the goal set for him and the club in year one, hence it was ahead of expectations. You then started suggesting that other people were suggesting that the board “did not want promotion in year one” and that they were thinking “oh, now we got promoted we should get relegated and start again” which is just nonsense and not what was being said at all.

What’s your blueprint for achieving this? Collectively the dynamics of the players we bought (different leagues, nationalities etc) was a dogs breakfast but as individuals nearly all of our signings fit the bill of what you are saying.

Sure, if you view failing to achieve promotion from the championship for two consecutive years the same as getting promoted in year one and then getting relegated. I dont. As for this season alone, relegation would be a failure of very fine margins. The difference between this season being a “success” and a “failure” could be a last minute goal on the final day. In either scenario, I’d be giving Smith until Nov/Dec before considering the sack.

Thank you for pointing out that a board can’t see into the future with complete certainty. This nothing statement alone proves you’ve missed the point. What a board CAN do however is make an evaluation of their current position and set a realistic target/goal for promotion. As for your comment about your realistic expectation as a fan - fair enough and I agree to an extent. The board want attacking football as in the long run it’ll give us greater opportunity to reach the heights that we want to versus playing defensive survival football. Smith has committed to this, it hasn’t worked out, and you can definitely argue that he’s been stubborn in his approach to changing this despite the change in formation. I firmly believe however that the damage was done with our summer recruitment and that even if we shifted to a more defensive style we would still be rubbish. We bought players from completely random nationalities and leagues and made the task of integrating a new squad together even more difficult as a result. As the season has gone on, our confidence has completely disappeared which has led us to our current predicament. It’s not necessarily a matter of “Smith has taken us backwards”, people need to realise that.

No one is suggesting this, you’ve missed the point completely. The board set a realistic target of promotion within two seasons which Smith achieved within 1 = overachievement. That early promotion thrust us into the premier league with barely half a squad and a complete rebuild to do which is a ridiculously tough task in any league let alone arguably the toughest league in the world. This has ultimately put Smith’s job at risk because the majority of our fan base have absolutely no concept of realistic expectations nor patience.

More a case of fans seeking to make sense of a bad situation by attributing blame to something or someone - a scapegoat. Trez is an easy target as out of all of our players he has the worst touch and “footballing brain” which makes him stand out. Like I said, he’s not been great but he’s certainly chipped in with some important moments. He’s not been that far off an £8.75m signing.

Agree with you Gaz. He hasn’t been great, but the abuse he gets needs to be tempered and put in perspective.

Wow, a voice of reason!