Wesley Moraes

[Guest av1]

1 minute ago, bobzy said:

As much as Wesley has been an obvious fault, I actually think a lot of the problem is our midfield.  It sounds weird, because it's arguably the strong point of our team, but everyone seems to sit deep and/or central which stifles our ability to get forward effectively.  Our goal scoring tally isn't that bad in the league, but I would wager a lot of these have come from set pieces.

When you watch Wesley play (league, at least) he is either used as a target man for long balls when we're under pressure (he isn't great at this, although does win flick-ons) or as a hold-up forward to get the midfield up the pitch.  Neither works that well, although they're roles he needs to perform.

It's quite rare that our midfield are up with him or getting beyond him.  3 of his goals have happened when the ball is wide left and he's able to get at the near post - against Arsenal (Grealish assist?), Norwich (Hourihane) and last night (Trezeguet).  Although last nights' was a run and - very good - finish, it was the same principle.  With another body up with him, he was able to make something happen.

Naturally, we need to see more of the movement that we saw in his goal against Everton.  He'll be inconsistent, too, as he's still adapting and learning about both the league and the team.  We need to see more from Wesley, but I also think we need to see more from our midfield.  Out of all of them, Trezeguet is the only one who properly bombs forward.  Maybe he's the 'answer'?

Agree with all that mate. Maybe Jack moving back to the center. 

[birdman]

While I have no problem at all with Kodjia potentially starting at weekend let's not forget he has had the luxury of starting against a very young, less physically strong side. Of course he looked good and did well but to make a direct comparison with what Wes has done so far is ridiculous.

1 hour ago, villalad21 said:

Hate to be that guy but Kodjia showed more to me in that game than Wesley has done all season.

 

[Dave-R]

I'm surprised the (Wesley V Kodjia) thread hasn't popped up yet.

[A'Villan]

38 minutes ago, bobzy said:

As much as Wesley has been an obvious fault, I actually think a lot of the problem is our midfield.  It sounds weird, because it's arguably the strong point of our team, but everyone seems to sit deep and/or central which stifles our ability to get forward effectively.  Our goal scoring tally isn't that bad in the league, but I would wager a lot of these have come from set pieces.

When you watch Wesley play (league, at least) he is either used as a target man for long balls when we're under pressure (he isn't great at this, although does win flick-ons) or as a hold-up forward to get the midfield up the pitch.  Neither works that well, although they're roles he needs to perform.

It's quite rare that our midfield are up with him or getting beyond him.  3 of his goals have happened when the ball is wide left and he's able to get at the near post - against Arsenal (Grealish assist?), Norwich (Hourihane) and last night (Trezeguet).  Although last nights' was a run and - very good - finish, it was the same principle.  With another body up with him, he was able to make something happen.

Naturally, we need to see more of the movement that we saw in his goal against Everton.  He'll be inconsistent, too, as he's still adapting and learning about both the league and the team.  We need to see more from Wesley, but I also think we need to see more from our midfield.  Out of all of them, Trezeguet is the only one who properly bombs forward.  Maybe he's the 'answer'?

I'm not sure if Trezeguet is going to be the answer to our survival cause.

This is why I wanted Gaitan badly, and why I would be more than open to Pedro coming.

I don't think we're going to pay up the fee for Benrahma, though I don't have the slightest clue.

I actually prefer El Ghazi to Trezeguet, but do appreciate what you're saying about getting forward.

Trezeguet looks to get on the front foot before opponents can settle, and catch them on the back peddle.

The thing is we actually do get men forward, at times we average 7 players in the attacking half over 90 minutes.

That's part of the reason we're so susceptible to transitions in play turning into goals via few touch counter attacks.

We're averaging 15 shots per game and 1.5 goals, last I checked that's good for European placing, it's defensive liabilities which are costing us.

It would be nice to have some counter attacking options that are viable in this side, that's why I like Pedro, Gaitan and Benrahma, they've got that in them.

Being so new to the league and each other it's demanding enough without expecting the team to play it up the pitch as a unit every attack.

Being able to punish teams on the break through direct play is something a team in our position should have in the repertoire.

[PussEKatt]

What suprises me the most is that Wesley is that he didnt get a season loan in the championship first.FFS compare how good wesley is compared to Tammy A, and yet Tammy was with us in the championship first.Wesley goes streight in to the PL with a team that has just gone up.The major fault lies not with Wesley but with D.S

[rodders0223]

Agreed, we should have loaned out a £22m striker to Barnsley and dusted off the olive branch to Ross and Scottie.

 

[PussEKatt]

We shouldent of paid 22m for a striker that was not good enough to go streight into the PL

[OxfordVillan]

It’s difficult to gauge, given the opposition. Wesley took his goal well, Kodjia took both his goals well. I don’t think either player is the silver bullet for us this season, but it’s obvious that they play very differently. It’s what you prefer. I prefer a forward that stays predominantly forward and looks to break between opposition CBs, I think that way you keep the opposition a little further back rather than allowing them to squeeze up on a forward that much of the time plays almost as an advanced midfielder. It’s a better form of defence as well as being more dangerous going forward, if you like. I think we don’t cause opposition CBs anywhere near enough problems, I always want my forward pushing up near the halfway line when we’re defending, pressing the CBs so that they can’t squeeze up for fear of the forward breaking through. I’m not so bothered about my forward dropping deep to help out, for me we’re better helped having him keeping the CBs occupied as far upfield as possible. Just what I prefer. We’ve just got to be less predictable, change things a little more often than we have been doing. 

[DJ_Villain]

I’d be intrigued to see how Wesley and Kodjia play together in the same team with Kodjia sat further forward in a predatory role... We lack options between the midfielders and the forwards and are reliant on Jack to draw 3 players out of position... We don’t have a problem scoring goals, it’s the conceding them that we need to stop... and part of that comes with our midfield bombing forward to goalscoring opportunities and leaving us wide open to a counter attack...

In my opinion

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, PussEKatt said:

What suprises me the most is that Wesley is that he didnt get a season loan in the championship first.FFS compare how good wesley is compared to Tammy A, and yet Tammy was with us in the championship first.Wesley goes streight in to the PL with a team that has just gone up.The major fault lies not with Wesley but with D.S

What bizarre logic.

[mikeyp102]

4 hours ago, bobzy said:

As much as Wesley has been an obvious fault, I actually think a lot of the problem is our midfield.  It sounds weird, because it's arguably the strong point of our team, but everyone seems to sit deep and/or central which stifles our ability to get forward effectively.  Our goal scoring tally isn't that bad in the league, but I would wager a lot of these have come from set pieces.

When you watch Wesley play (league, at least) he is either used as a target man for long balls when we're under pressure (he isn't great at this, although does win flick-ons) or as a hold-up forward to get the midfield up the pitch.  Neither works that well, although they're roles he needs to perform.

It's quite rare that our midfield are up with him or getting beyond him.  3 of his goals have happened when the ball is wide left and he's able to get at the near post - against Arsenal (Grealish assist?), Norwich (Hourihane) and last night (Trezeguet).  Although last nights' was a run and - very good - finish, it was the same principle.  With another body up with him, he was able to make something happen.

Naturally, we need to see more of the movement that we saw in his goal against Everton.  He'll be inconsistent, too, as he's still adapting and learning about both the league and the team.  We need to see more from Wesley, but I also think we need to see more from our midfield.  Out of all of them, Trezeguet is the only one who properly bombs forward.  Maybe he's the 'answer'?

Yep agreed said similar in the smith thread

[Laughable Chimp]

I don't think I mind either Wesley or Kodjia starting vs Southampton. Both gave a good account of themselves last night.

I'd probably start Wesley and sub Kodjia in very early if Wesley has shown himself to be completely useless again. Like, there's no point leaving him on when he is like that, you know he's never gonna suddenly become great for the rest of the match.

[villa4europe]

2 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

We shouldent of paid 22m for a striker that was not good enough to go streight into the PL

Nope

What we shouldnt have done is spent £22m on a striker who wasn't a straight PL fit and then bought no one else... 

And to be fair the not fitting stuff is really hard to tell, I would disagree with anyone who says it's constant, at times he does look good enough

And then also to be fair the other striker we went for was apparently maupay who would also be new to the league and the exact same risk

I still think the fair measuring stick for him is to compare him with the leagues other new strikers, haller for example was double the price and has 1 more goal, even more favourable comparison is kean who on paper is a far better signing but he's having a mare so far 

[Zatman]

6 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Hate to be that guy but Kodjia showed more to me in that game than Wesley has done all season.

Yep Kodjia showed more against a team that had school the next day than Wesley has vs Premier League defences

[Delphinho123]

6 hours ago, av1 said:

Really? It's amazing that Kodjias 2 goals (in 70mins) show he is a goal scorer, but Wesley's 1 goal in 20mins, for some is laughed off as "scoring against kids"

It's also interested that one of the things people criticise Wesley for is his attitude, yet overlook the petulant, embarrassing strop from Kodjia when he thought he should have won a penalty. 

I still prefer Wesley by quite a considerable distance. 

*3 goals. 

[Guest av1]

42 minutes ago, Delphinho123 said:

*3 goals. 

It was 2 goals. Besides, the maths still stand up. As much as you hate Wesley he is better than Kodjia. 

Bit I'm not going to get into an argument with someone that would prefer a center half upfront. 

[Delphinho123]

6 minutes ago, av1 said:

It was 2 goals. Besides, the maths still stand up. As much as you hate Wesley he is better than Kodjia. 

Bit I'm not going to get into an argument with someone that would prefer a center half upfront. 

It was 3 goals. 

[villalad21]

1 hour ago, av1 said:

It was 2 goals. Besides, the maths still stand up. As much as you hate Wesley he is better than Kodjia. 

Bit I'm not going to get into an argument with someone that would prefer a center half upfront. 

Sky credited Kodjia 3 goals

[Dodgyknees]

1 minute ago, villalad21 said:

Sky credited Kodjia 3 goals

Sky have also put Fantastic Four,Tooth Fairy, and Jack & Jill in their Returning "Favourites" section on Sky Go.

[Guest av1]

1 hour ago, Delphinho123 said:

It was 3 goals. 

 

36 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Sky credited Kodjia 3 goals

OS says 2.