Wesley Moraes

[villalad21]

Another point with Kodjia is he is used to the English game and is known as a prolific goalscorer at Championship level.

If just man managed correctly he could have been ok for us this season.

But instead of that we left him in the dust. Never gave him a chance. And here we are.

A fully motivated Kodjia is not a bad player at all.

Edited December 15, 2019 by villalad21

[Laughable Chimp]

2 hours ago, thunderball said:

Looks a different player in footage from then, but as I said he has it in him on this basis, and has scored in the Champions league. If you read this thread he has zero abilities which clearly isn’t true.

I don't know why people look at scoring in the champions league so much. He scored 2 goals in the CL, and both goals against a Monaco side who gained only a single point in the group stage and were absolutely no match to any other team in their group that season.

[Laughable Chimp]

30 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Don't disagree with that.

I blame both. I think I'm allowed to blame or at least hate/dislike players for being crap, not just management. 

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

10 hours ago, jjaacckk91 said:

I honestly think it might.

Quite simply the team don't trust him.

I had hope he could turn it around until something I picked up on in the Newcastle game, he had already missed a sitter we were 2-0 up and it was about 90 minutes so the game was done.

We broke with Jack and Wesley was wide open for a simple through ball to be clean through.

Jack ignored him, stalled a bit and brought it forward and laid it off for mcginn I think who was in a much worse position.

Any other player I think he puts it on a plate for them, and if that's happening when the game is already won and the pressure is off how is that lack of trust in him affecting our build up, especially when we're being pressed and pressured like today/yesterday.

But with this train of thought, how does it explain the good team performances we have had with him in the team?

Bad decision making is something we never do?

How often do you watch us? lol

If it was Kodjia he would have probably taken the ball and tried to re - beat 3 defenders before skying a shot.

I genuinely think people see what they want to see, based on sentiment, and what they would like to be true.

Either way, as always, truth about all of this is probably somewhere in between all the extremes.

Edited December 15, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[VillaCas]

Hard to believe there are some still finding ways to back him. A really really terrible footballer who is the cause of many of our troubles. CF is one of the key positions on the pitch and we’ve bought ourselves a shocker

We need a new forward (preferably two) urgently otherwise I fear that instead of just keeping our heads above water we will sink without trace

[Mister_a]

I really thought he might turn out good. During the pre-season friendlies, he showed some good link up play, and had a good eye for a pass etc. Unfortunately, it seems that that was all he is ok at. We desperately need more options up front, regardless of how he is playing, but especially now he’s not living up to any kind of promise from pre-season.

[Philosopher]

4 hours ago, Hobbit Feet said:

He actually held the ball up 1 time which was refreshing to see. What did Wesley do? Oh yeh he had one shot against the side netting, which he took so long to hit it was always going on the side netting, he almost looked surprised with himself like oh I can actually shoot, look fans ok not that bad. I’d start Kodja at this point. I mean how must he feel watching from the bench thinking of I can’t get a game in front of this guy then somethings very wrong. He’s a Ivory Coast international don’t forget. 11 goals in 24 games

Actually Wesley held up the ball on a few occasions and was linking up quite well. When he got a decent ball into him. The problem with Wesley is that he isn't offering a proper focal point upfront because he comes deep often. That's more to do with how the manager is instructing him I believe. But it's also the underperforming midfield problem as when Wes drops deep, someone needs to go past him, and we need to be having more of the ball in the other teams half.

These three matches have been woeful and Wesley has certainly not been the worse performer in any of the games. Although that's not saying much.

The fact is Kodja offers even less than Wesley. Kodja was rubbish yesterday. 

I have no problem with people criticising Wesley, but much of the criticisms are unfair. The scapegoating of Wesley needs to stop it's unfair on a hardworking and talented young player. 

[Philosopher]

1 hour ago, Mister_a said:

I really thought he might turn out good. During the pre-season friendlies, he showed some good link up play, and had a good eye for a pass etc. Unfortunately, it seems that that was all he is ok at. We desperately need more options up front, regardless of how he is playing, but especially now he’s not living up to any kind of promise from pre-season.

Who is living up to their preseason promise. Our main problems is we are hemorrhaging cheap goals, and losing the midfield battles.

[Philosopher]

2 hours ago, VillaCas said:

Hard to believe there are some still finding ways to back him. A really really terrible footballer who is the cause of many of our troubles. CF is one of the key positions on the pitch and we’ve bought ourselves a shocker

We need a new forward (preferably two) urgently otherwise I fear that instead of just keeping our heads above water we will sink without trace

This is total BS. Our main issues are failing to string passes together, simply defensive errors, and a lack of top level experience. His first touch for his one chance yesterday was good, he played some nice passes and held the ball up 2 or 3 times, that's not a terrible footballer. He did okay in the circumstances yesterday. He is.not the guy that will produce a moment of brilliance to change a game, but he is a team player, and hard worker.

[sharkyvilla]

1 hour ago, Mister_a said:

I really thought he might turn out good. During the pre-season friendlies, he showed some good link up play, and had a good eye for a pass etc. Unfortunately, it seems that that was all he is ok at. We desperately need more options up front, regardless of how he is playing, but especially now he’s not living up to any kind of promise from pre-season.

The chance he had where he hit it into the side netting at the near post kind of summed him up.  Any experienced striker knows you have to go across goal.  It's just frustrating but I'm hoping in the next two home games we will play on the front foot and get runners going beyond Wes.  His best games have come in matches like Newcastle when he can take the ball and move it on quickly to another attacker.  If he gets isolated he gets bullied too easily.  Yesterday he was up against 3 centre halves which didn't help either.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

20 minutes ago, Philosopher said:

Who is living up to their preseason promise. Our main problems is we are hemorrhaging cheap goals, and losing the midfield battles.

I don;t have a problem with saying he is playing poorly, or not showing enough currently, or doesn't look "good enough", or even cast doubt on him ever making it.

I'll repeat again, it's the extreme hyperbole and the myth that the whole team is shite because of him which winds my gears.

ALSO, the prediction of that a 23 year old, RAW player which has been scouted by a professional team will NEVER amount to anything based on his showing in a new country, with a new team, after 16 Premier League games (Arguably the toughest in the World).

They are not giving ratings, or current opinions, they are literally STATING that he will NEVER be a professional footballer, much less good enough. lol

They also go out of their way to be completely blind to the pathetic displays from the rest of the team, or acknowledge how it could possibly be affecting not only him, but other players as well.

I will state again, on here, a couple of months ago, I said that he NEEDED to be dropped for his own good, and the good of the team overall. As he is obviously very raw, wasn't doing enough, and fans were starting to turn on him, so I said he needed time to be coached more and integrated slowly. Then we got the injury to Davis.

So what choice do we have? Try to support a player who is pretty much our only outlet, or try to destroy his confidence even further?

Because the only thing better than a "shit player", is a "shit player" with no confidence hey?

There have been MANY players we have disagreed about on here and had actual differences of opinions on and useful debates about.

However I can;t remember the last time a seen a vendetta so vitriolic, and I genuinely don't think it is fair.

I don't get it.

Edited December 15, 2019 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN

[AntrimBlack]

My problem with him is that up front and scoring is not his natural game, and I doubt that we will ever be able to make him into that type of player. When we attack he is often too far back, not in the box to give himself a chance to score.

He does sometimes show deft little touches and layoffs, but I actually think Davis is better at both of those things and also holds the ball up better.

Heaton needs to stop with the long punts, we do not have the frontman for that, and the ball more often than not comes straight back at us.

We seriously are in need of a good, goal scoring striker, someone like...................Abraham................sigh.

 

[sir_gary_cahill]

Just give Wesley time, he’s only young and we paid a lot money for him, to expect instant success is silly, a lot of fans are on here and at the ground are getting on his back. In my opinion, he has already shown a lot of potential for us, some of his link play and finishing has been great. He just needs a scrappy goal to go in off his backside and then fans will be on his side again, we’re a fickle bunch

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

My problem with him is that up front and scoring is not his natural game, and I doubt that we will ever be able to make him into that type of player. When we attack he is often too far back, not in the box to give himself a chance to score.

He does sometimes show deft little touches and layoffs, but I actually think Davis is better at both of those things and also holds the ball up better.

Heaton needs to stop with the long punts, we do not have the frontman for that, and the ball more often than not comes straight back at us.

We seriously are in need of a good, goal scoring striker, someone like...................Abraham................sigh.

 

Rushian Hepburn-Murphy? I know I sound like a broken record but I think he is beginning to show his potential at Tranmere. In my opinion, at the end of his loan, he can come back here and have an impact 

[sir_gary_cahill]

1 hour ago, AntrimBlack said:

My problem with him is that up front and scoring is not his natural game, and I doubt that we will ever be able to make him into that type of player. When we attack he is often too far back, not in the box to give himself a chance to score.

He does sometimes show deft little touches and layoffs, but I actually think Davis is better at both of those things and also holds the ball up better.

Heaton needs to stop with the long punts, we do not have the frontman for that, and the ball more often than not comes straight back at us.

We seriously are in need of a good, goal scoring striker, someone like...................Abraham................sigh.

 

Rushian Hepburn-Murphy? I know I sound like a broken record but I think he is beginning to show his potential at Tranmere. In my opinion, at the end of his loan, he can come back here and have an impact 

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

On 14/12/2019 at 18:08, Tomaszk said:

It's taken years but someone has come for Bosko Balaban's crown and absolutely booted him off the throne. £22m. Incredible.

Can't play football.

Fat bloke from the office who comes to 5-a-side, stinks the place out and people wish wouldn't come anymore because no one wants to be on his team.

I thought we might be good enough to just about stay up despite him based on early promise. Incorrect. Other teams are picking up bonus points every week. If we don't replace him we're down.

What was that story about the agent? Needs looking into. People have made money here, and Villa have been taken to the cleaners.

Interesting you should mention him because not long after leaving Villa, he ended up at...Club Brugge. He averaged a goal every other game for them despite looking like it was the first time he’d ever seen a football whilst playing for us. 

[KenjiOgiwara]

How many matches did Balaban even get for us? 5? 

[KenjiOgiwara]

2 hours ago, Philosopher said:

This is total BS. Our main issues are failing to string passes together, simply defensive errors, and a lack of top level experience. His first touch for his one chance yesterday was good, he played some nice passes and held the ball up 2 or 3 times, that's not a terrible footballer. He did okay in the circumstances yesterday. He is.not the guy that will produce a moment of brilliance to change a game, but he is a team player, and hard worker.

Yesterday wasn't even in his top 10 worst matches. But he was poor. 

He simply isn't ready for this level yet. Replace him and bench him. 

[Tomaszk]

2 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Interesting you should mention him because not long after leaving Villa, he ended up at...Club Brugge. He averaged a goal every other game for them despite looking like it was the first time he’d ever seen a football whilst playing for us. 

Remember Bosko playing with boots that seemed to be missing studs. Sliding round all over the place.

[KentVillan]

5 minutes ago, Morley_crosses_to_Withe said:

Interesting you should mention him because not long after leaving Villa, he ended up at...Club Brugge. He averaged a goal every other game for them despite looking like it was the first time he’d ever seen a football whilst playing for us. 

Yep, I think there's a certain type of footballer (e.g. Hourihane, Taylor) who looks quite similar whatever level he plays at.

And then there's players who just seem to get found out at higher levels, despite looking class at lower levels. I'm starting to think McGinn might fall into that category. Wesley definitely seems to have this issue.

Unfortunately, this is why proven Premier League talent costs a lot more money.

I really don't think Wesley was a stupid signing, even at £22m, but to sign a player who has achieved all his success as second striker in a front 2, and then start him every game in the Premier League as a lone striker, seems illogical.

Nothing wrong with converting a player from one role to another, but you shouldn't be gambling the house on that. If we were going to try and make Wesley into a lone striker, then we should have either had a backup system (4-4-2 or 3-5-2) in mind, or a backup striker to ease the burden on him.