trom_borg Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 43 minutes ago, nick76 said: Yet year after year money is getting more and more. We thought that Sky had a monopoly on games and we had no choice but to buy their subscription and thus should be spread across multiple providers yet now I feel I'm paying much more with Sky, BT Sport and Amazon for games. Remember when we thought Shearer was expensive at 15m, then Mbappe and Neymar went to PSG for over ten times that. An average top end player is still quoted at a 9 figure fee and salaries which they get daily more than the average person gets a year. I agree it's dangerous and a slight interruption causes problems but do you seriously think the people running the game (including the high end players) are going to stop this beautiful cash cow they have. You are essentially describing here how the financial side of football is inflated. And some of it due to the expansion to new markets, but that also cant continue in the same pace. In the end its not up to the people running the show to decide to stop the cash cow they have, reality is that they too are constrained by the limits of real economy growth and tumults in the financial economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted April 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2020 18 minutes ago, PaulC said: Very honest Honest yes but also quite obvious. Yes the season being voided benefits us. No it wouldn’t matter if we were 12th apartment from entertainment. Yes if we were in Sheffield Utd’s or Liverpool’s shoes we’d want the season finished even behind closed doors, since they have nothing to loss and everything to gain, whereas we would be at a huge disadvantage playing games behind home games without fans. And yes all of this still depends on only playing if deemed safe to do so, which it won’t anytime soon, certainly not before future seasons start to be affected too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Like any bubble it can only get so big before bursting. Perhaps this will be that pin prick to deflate the entire thing. I don’t see that as a bad thing long term, if FIFA/UEFA crumble and a new body/authority is created, well that’s fine by me. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThunderPower_14 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 It's insane to think the season can finish. Almost 800 people in the UK died yesterday and that number is climbing. The depth and breadth of this surely makes completing the season before August impossible. Every club would be affected, we have players who have been infected, countless people involved who have lost family. Just call the season you corrupt, money hungry leeches. I'm quite happy to give Liverpool the title. I'd even take our relegation over having the season restarted when it's dangerous to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 46 minutes ago, trom_borg said: You are essentially describing here how the financial side of football is inflated. And some of it due to the expansion to new markets, but that also cant continue in the same pace. In the end its not up to the people running the show to decide to stop the cash cow they have, reality is that they too are constrained by the limits of real economy growth and tumults in the financial economy. The problem is that are we there yet? every year we say it cant get any bigger but it does. Every year from what I can remember, we keep saying I cant see this keep going, it's going to burst but it keeps growing. Yes by natural economics it has to hit a ceiling but we just dont know what that ceiling is. Society changing after this may be it or maybe it wont.....I'm just not sure we are at that ceiling yet. What I was saying re the cash cows was they are going to continue to drain this cash cow so why change. Yes constraints are there like the economy and things like the current environment but by god, they will be trying to get back to the status quo post this to continue the gravy train. Therefore they will cash cow it within the constraints of the economy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, The Fun Factory said: Isn't that basically the champions league already? Bar a few random years (like Ajax last year) you can be pretty confident to predict who will be in the last 8 every season. The last time a team outside of England, Germany, Spain or Italy to have won the champions league was Porto in 2004. Every final has been a combination of teams from the said four leagues, not even PSG have reached it yet with billions of euros spent. The last time a team from Eastern Europe to have won it was Red Star Belgrade in 1991. Quite a bit has happened since then. Basically what I am saying why would they get rid of one competition and play in only one super league? It would mean less money in the long run. I see what you are saying but I am talking about a proper league, home and away for all teams like the premiership but an European version. That all the teams play home and away (and likely no relegation to national leagues), it will be a closed league to those 18 to 20 teams. This will reduce the season so we arent at risk of too many games that could be impacted by this, the teams arent at risk of being relegated, less games mean less injuries for players yet the teams and players get to hog almost all the money so are not impacted by less games but have regular big games weekly rather than Palace vs Burnley....they will have regularly Real Madrid vs Liverpool. I hate it but the continued expansion of the European Cup to Champions League has been going this way for years slowly. You say less money long run, I think it'll be different, it'll mean smaller teams like Villa wont get a slice of PL money because that will be in this European league so only the big teams get the money. The big teams combine into a league and thus all the small teams will be excluded and lose out on the money that the big 18 teams can hog in the European league. Yes they have a lot of that due to the Champions League but imagine if they could get most of the PL money as well and cut out 15 teams out of the equation.....it's a gold mine for them. On a smaller level it was almost what happened when the PL was formed back in the 90's, the top league went from having the majority of the money to having the significant majority of the money to the point that relegation from the PL is such a major financial impact it could send you club under.....that would never happen in the 70's or 80's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 This has really allowed me to take stock and reaffirm how much I hate the premier league and also reinforces why I’ve shown so little interest this season. I don’t want stupid Instagram posts, fancy new hairdos and rocket polishers turning up in their range rovers. They’ve really all confirmed how out of touch they are with the fans and normal hard working people who care deeply about the clubs which frankly no longer have anything to do with the fans. I want to have a strong cup of tea in a polystyrene cup made by Doris or a local beer from doubtfully cleaned pipes and freeze my tits off on the touch line watching a “worse” version of the game where there’s no VAR and nonsense brought to you by Bud Light. Hence why the only football I was actually physically going to watch before leaving the UK was non-league. That’s the only way to have a proper football experience now. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 35 minutes ago, Spoony said: This has really allowed me to take stock and reaffirm how much I hate the premier league and also reinforces why I’ve shown so little interest this season. I don’t want stupid Instagram posts, fancy new hairdos and rocket polishers turning up in their range rovers. They’ve really all confirmed how out of touch they are with the fans and normal hard working people who care deeply about the clubs which frankly no longer have anything to do with the fans. I want to have a strong cup of tea in a polystyrene cup made by Doris or a local beer from doubtfully cleaned pipes and freeze my tits off on the touch line watching a “worse” version of the game where there’s no VAR and nonsense brought to you by Bud Light. Hence why the only football I was actually physically going to watch before leaving the UK was non-league. That’s the only way to have a proper football experience now. Yes I feel that way myself now. Listening to OGS and Neville discussing how United are going to take advantage of their wealth by splashing out the cash on players was totally nauseating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 2 hours ago, ThunderPower_14 said: It's insane to think the season can finish. Almost 800 people in the UK died yesterday and that number is climbing. The depth and breadth of this surely makes completing the season before August impossible. Every club would be affected, we have players who have been infected, countless people involved who have lost family. Just call the season you corrupt, money hungry leeches. I'm quite happy to give Liverpool the title. I'd even take our relegation over having the season restarted when it's dangerous to do so. and nearly 1000 today. Who cares about football or the money grabbing people who are part of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trom_borg Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 2 hours ago, nick76 said: The problem is that are we there yet? every year we say it cant get any bigger but it does. Every year from what I can remember, we keep saying I cant see this keep going, it's going to burst but it keeps growing. Yes by natural economics it has to hit a ceiling but we just dont know what that ceiling is. Society changing after this may be it or maybe it wont.....I'm just not sure we are at that ceiling yet. What I was saying re the cash cows was they are going to continue to drain this cash cow so why change. Yes constraints are there like the economy and things like the current environment but by god, they will be trying to get back to the status quo post this to continue the gravy train. Therefore they will cash cow it within the constraints of the economy. Again, it depends how you view the current global financial situation. In any case I agree there are unknowns so no outcome is given here. But I think that the global economy is entering a phase not seen in almost 100 years, parts of it likely never seen before. That will also affect football in a big way. While I understand your point, there is a problem with your statement in bold. You can not simply adapt to new economical constraints in the way your alluding to here, because your cost structure is based on previous income streams. Those income streams will change as a result of a severe global recession/depression, but adapting your costs is not so easy, many players are on long contracts, player instalments still having to be paid ect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 46 minutes ago, trom_borg said: Again, it depends how you view the current global financial situation. In any case I agree there are unknowns so no outcome is given here. But I think that the global economy is entering a phase not seen in almost 100 years, parts of it likely never seen before. That will also affect football in a big way. While I understand your point, there is a problem with your statement in bold. You can not simply adapt to new economical constraints in the way your alluding to here, because your cost structure is based on previous income streams. Those income streams will change as a result of a severe global recession/depression, but adapting your costs is not so easy, many players are on long contracts, player instalments still having to be paid ect. So you are assuming their income streams are materially going to decline. Even after the Global Financial Crisis of 2008, Ronaldo went to Real Madrid for 80m in 2009, Club tv payments continued to increase. Even a few years later Bale to Real Madrid and Neymar to Barcelona went for similar figures. So impact to football after the GFC wasn’t that bad and maybe this time it won’t be....or maybe it will be. Still plenty of cash in football because demand is there. Edited April 8, 2020 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post OutByEaster? Posted April 8, 2020 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted April 8, 2020 The problem isn't the amount of money coming into the game, it's what they do with it. Player salaries, transfer fees, payments to agents. Football is currently raking in billions of pounds - the game is financially light years away from the way it was even twenty years ago - there are umpteen billions of pounds coming in and it's possible that those numbers could still stretch - and yet, very few clubs make a profit. Manchester United made a profit of £18.88m last year on turnover of £630m. They have debts of over £400m and they're looking at spending more than couple of hundred million pounds on players this summer. Barcelona are on the verge of being broke - they're barely solvent - they're the second richest club in the world - they've furloughed their staff - they're looking to buy Neymar this summer for £180m.. It doesn't matter how much money is coming into the front door if you're just throwing it straight out of the window. We are reliant on the useless crooks at UEFA and FIFA and the FA to find ways to ensure that clubs use some of that money to protect themselves against the unexpected and to make sure that their unique status as assets within their communities, as cultural objects as much as economic ones are secured. Here's a couple of very simple things that would be better than we have now: Don't let any club make a signing while they have debt - clubs without debt don't collapse. Put a cap per team on wages across the league that is identical for every team. Let owners put in as much money as they like as long as it doesn't create debt. Set up a membership fund for Premier league teams who would pay in each season so that there's cash in the bank for the unexpected. Anything but the absolute carnage we have at the moment, where in the first year of a super-duper-extra-massive-multi-billion pound TV deal, some clubs make a marginal profit, then gradually throw that money into players they can't afford. The problem has become that football relies on permanent, infinite growth to support its demands and if that growth is interrupted, even momentarily, it collapses. And absolutely no one is talking about changing it - everyone involved is making money and none of them give a f**K about fans, football clubs or the long term health of the game. There's an article in one of the papers today where different experts were invited to talk about how to fix football - in amongst it, three of them suggested that we needed to play more young English players - the ignorance is staggering, they're at the Somme with a dustpan and brush. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 9 hours ago, jim said: I’m calling shenanigans on that one. Yeah, I have no idea if it’s valid. I personally find it hard to believe. Just figured I’d pass along the info 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2020 The players have pretty much declared war on the Premier league this evening - social media from lots and lots of players discusses how they've set up a fund to directly help the NHS and how they'll ll be contributing directly through that (as opposed to giving their money back to the club through a pay cut). I've seen Samatta, Grealish and Mings from Villa that have posted the statement, I'm sure there are others. I don't think players were at all happy with the league deciding they were all going to take a pay cut for the benefit of the their clubs and then announcing it to the world without asking them. It'll be interesting to see what happens next. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted April 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2020 49 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: The players have pretty much declared war on the Premier league this evening - social media from lots and lots of players discusses how they've set up a fund to directly help the NHS and how they'll ll be contributing directly through that (as opposed to giving their money back to the club through a pay cut). I've seen Samatta, Grealish and Mings from Villa that have posted the statement, I'm sure there are others. I don't think players were at all happy with the league deciding they were all going to take a pay cut for the benefit of the their clubs and then announcing it to the world without asking them. It'll be interesting to see what happens next. I don't know what's right or wrong but going to war on The Premier league smacks of biting the hand that feeds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spoony Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, sidcow said: I don't know what's right or wrong but going to war on The Premier league smacks of biting the hand that feeds. But the point is they don’t want there to be a “hand that feeds”. That’s the very issue with it all. All the power and money is consolidated at the very top at unprecedented levels. It kills everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zatman Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 SPL look set to abandon the league and award Celtic the title. Also will relegate Hearts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, Zatman said: SPL look set to abandon the league and award Celtic the title. Also will relegate Hearts Just saw that. They are proposing they use average points per game. Hearts threatening to sue if it goes ahead as they are only 4 points off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 9, 2020 9 hours ago, Zatman said: SPL look set to abandon the league and award Celtic the title. Also will relegate Hearts Good - at least it provokes the Premier League into action - there is far more money to lose in the Premier League so not sure I see them being so controversial... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OxfordVillan Posted April 9, 2020 Share Posted April 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Jareth said: Good - at least it provokes the Premier League into action - there is far more money to lose in the Premier League so not sure I see them being so controversial... I think we need to consider “precedent”. If a number of leagues throughout Europe do similar, then we could well be in trouble. The bottom line is that if there was a Premier League vote on this type of finish then you could probably bet your house on 17 clubs being in favour! The big difference between the Premier League & SPL is that only 2 clubs have played a game less in the SPL, Rangers & St Johnstone, and neither of those 2 clubs can really gain anything with a 3pt win with the game in hand. Villa, on the other hand, could win their game in hand and jump to 15th in the table and thus avoid relegation. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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