It's Your Round Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 @OutByEaster? I agree with every word you say, but sadly I think it’s just a dream. There’s too many people with too many filthy fingers in rotten pies that stand to lose revenue if wholesale changes are made for the good of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Has anyone heard a single word, even a hint, from anyone involved in the game - from the league, from the PFA, from FIFA, from UEFA, from owners, from players, from pundits, from the media, anywhere at all, even a whisper of them changing the way the game works so that it's not this vulnerable in future? We hear that we might lose clubs, we might lose leagues, players must take massive pay cuts, there might be mass redundancies, there's a threat to thousands of jobs - all on the back of one missed TV payment - but we don't hear one word about changing things to make sure it doesn't happen again. Now is absolutely the time to be discussing ideas like a league fund where each Premier league team puts in a million a year so there's money centrally for a rainy day. Now is the time to discuss scrapping FFP and putting in salary caps and limits on agents and transfer fees. Now is the time to talk about governing football clubs by their debt, not their top line. Now is the time to talk about making it possible for success to come at sensible budgets, to reduce the reliance on endlessly growing TV deals, to reduce the risk to footballing business's that by design at the highest levels within the game operate right on the edge of their existence. The unseemly scramble for money has exposed the rotten core of our league; its grubby reliance on cash, the way it uses and drains fans, players and anyone who comes into contact with it, the way it's governed to ensure that every club strains for finance and that those that draw in the biggest TV numbers are protected at all times.Coronavirus has given the world a peek behind the curtain of football and what we see is sordid, crooked and massively flawed. All this on the back of the continuing idea that Manchester United will spend £100m on Jaden Sancho as soon as the window opens, that big clubs will make big deals, that Jim White will cream himself over the yellow ticker on deadline day, that players will earn £500k a week. All this on the idea that as soon as things are back to normal, they'll carry on exactly as they are and we'll learn absolutely nothing, change absolutely nothing. It's all very well restarting the machine, even in empty stadiums, but those aren't the only doors that seem to be closed - and no one is talking about opening the game up. Sorry mate but you’re in la la land. The people in the first paragraph you are asking to change are the people that are raking in the money and have a beautiful cash cow and will do everything they can to continue that. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobbit Feet Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 (edited) People keep mentioning the tv money, I take it sky/bt won’t pay up because the games won’t be on but are they going to refund people there subscription money? Because if not why should they hold the money back and keep it? They would be massively profiting from the pandemic which the government had said it would be cracking down on. Edited April 7, 2020 by Hobbit Feet Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 5 minutes ago, Hobbit Feet said: People keep mentioning the tv money, I take it sky/bt won’t pay up because the games won’t be on but are they going to refund people there subscription money? Because if not why should they hold the money back and keep it? They would be massively profiting from the pandemic which the government had said it would be cracking down on. Because we are the little man, we will get screwed. We may get a token discount/refund but basically screwed. Interesting to see if the season is voided what the Villa do with the unplayed home games for season ticket holders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 7, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 7, 2020 1 hour ago, nick76 said: Interesting to see if the season is voided what the Villa do with the unplayed home games for season ticket holders. Even if it's not voided it's extremely unlikely we'll be able to attend. It's likely that we won't be able to attend games well into next season too - it'll be very interesting what clubs do about season tickets in that circumstance. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted April 7, 2020 Share Posted April 7, 2020 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 7 hours ago, MNVillan said: I’m calling shenanigans on that one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted April 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2020 8 hours ago, MNVillan said: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) Well I believe it when I see it. Having got uefa/fifa to agree to extend the season beyond June why would they announce this now unless the UK government has bascially told them they can't restart and just focus on having a 20/21 season in the autumn. Edited April 8, 2020 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
delboy54 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Has anyone heard a single word, even a hint, from anyone involved in the game - from the league, from the PFA, from FIFA, from UEFA, from owners, from players, from pundits, from the media, anywhere at all, even a whisper of them changing the way the game works so that it's not this vulnerable in future? We hear that we might lose clubs, we might lose leagues, players must take massive pay cuts, there might be mass redundancies, there's a threat to thousands of jobs - all on the back of one missed TV payment - but we don't hear one word about changing things to make sure it doesn't happen again. Now is absolutely the time to be discussing ideas like a league fund where each Premier league team puts in a million a year so there's money centrally for a rainy day. Now is the time to discuss scrapping FFP and putting in salary caps and limits on agents and transfer fees. Now is the time to talk about governing football clubs by their debt, not their top line. Now is the time to talk about making it possible for success to come at sensible budgets, to reduce the reliance on endlessly growing TV deals, to reduce the risk to footballing business's that by design at the highest levels within the game operate right on the edge of their existence. The unseemly scramble for money has exposed the rotten core of our league; its grubby reliance on cash, the way it uses and drains fans, players and anyone who comes into contact with it, the way it's governed to ensure that every club strains for finance and that those that draw in the biggest TV numbers are protected at all times.Coronavirus has given the world a peek behind the curtain of football and what we see is sordid, crooked and massively flawed. All this on the back of the continuing idea that Manchester United will spend £100m on Jaden Sancho as soon as the window opens, that big clubs will make big deals, that Jim White will cream himself over the yellow ticker on deadline day, that players will earn £500k a week. All this on the idea that as soon as things are back to normal, they'll carry on exactly as they are and we'll learn absolutely nothing, change absolutely nothing. It's all very well restarting the machine, even in empty stadiums, but those aren't the only doors that seem to be closed - and no one is talking about opening the game up. Totally agree with this, but money is the king in the Premier League and there are so many vested interests. Football though is overdue a reset with reality Regards to all Derek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trom_borg Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 14 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: Has anyone heard a single word, even a hint, from anyone involved in the game - from the league, from the PFA, from FIFA, from UEFA, from owners, from players, from pundits, from the media, anywhere at all, even a whisper of them changing the way the game works so that it's not this vulnerable in future? We hear that we might lose clubs, we might lose leagues, players must take massive pay cuts, there might be mass redundancies, there's a threat to thousands of jobs - all on the back of one missed TV payment - but we don't hear one word about changing things to make sure it doesn't happen again. Now is absolutely the time to be discussing ideas like a league fund where each Premier league team puts in a million a year so there's money centrally for a rainy day. Now is the time to discuss scrapping FFP and putting in salary caps and limits on agents and transfer fees. Now is the time to talk about governing football clubs by their debt, not their top line. Now is the time to talk about making it possible for success to come at sensible budgets, to reduce the reliance on endlessly growing TV deals, to reduce the risk to footballing business's that by design at the highest levels within the game operate right on the edge of their existence. The unseemly scramble for money has exposed the rotten core of our league; its grubby reliance on cash, the way it uses and drains fans, players and anyone who comes into contact with it, the way it's governed to ensure that every club strains for finance and that those that draw in the biggest TV numbers are protected at all times.Coronavirus has given the world a peek behind the curtain of football and what we see is sordid, crooked and massively flawed. All this on the back of the continuing idea that Manchester United will spend £100m on Jaden Sancho as soon as the window opens, that big clubs will make big deals, that Jim White will cream himself over the yellow ticker on deadline day, that players will earn £500k a week. All this on the idea that as soon as things are back to normal, they'll carry on exactly as they are and we'll learn absolutely nothing, change absolutely nothing. It's all very well restarting the machine, even in empty stadiums, but those aren't the only doors that seem to be closed - and no one is talking about opening the game up. I could not agree more, and it really is mirroring many of the dynamics of the economy as a whole. The current growth trajectory of money in football is unsustainable even in the best of times, and with the whole world now facing a tougher economic immediate future (or even long term depending what you believe) it is clear that the economic football bubble will deflate/burst. If done in a conscious and attempted controlled way, with the integrity of the game and the best interest of the majority grass-root of fans in mind, it should lead to a better and more healthy football league for all involved parties in the long run, made for those who love the game. If it is instead left to the interest of money, which is the current trend, it will likely lead to a uncontrolled collapse of some sort, and the fundamental league and club structure might forever be changed. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_Steve Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 Idiots: Quote Tottenham Hotspur have reminded their players to respect social distancing guidelines after manager Jose Mourinho was pictured holding a makeshift training session in a public park in north London. Mourinho was spotted working with Tanguy Ndombele on Hadley Common on Tuesday, while footage of Davinson Sanchez and Ryan Sessegnon running side by side was also shared on social media. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 1 hour ago, trom_borg said: I could not agree more, and it really is mirroring many of the dynamics of the economy as a whole. The current growth trajectory of money in football is unsustainable even in the best of times, and with the whole world now facing a tougher economic immediate future (or even long term depending what you believe) it is clear that the economic football bubble will deflate/burst. If done in a conscious and attempted controlled way, with the integrity of the game and the best interest of the majority grass-root of fans in mind, it should lead to a better and more healthy football league for all involved parties in the long run, made for those who love the game. If it is instead left to the interest of money, which is the current trend, it will likely lead to a uncontrolled collapse of some sort, and the fundamental league and club structure might forever be changed. How will it burst? Football will still be as popular afterwards, tv money will still be there because we pay for the tv subscriptions. It’s still the biggest sport in the world so advertisers will still flock to spend millions. Not sure what you are expecting to change as unless a large portion of fans back away from the game then it won’t change and fans won’t, in material numbers, move away from the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trom_borg Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 4 minutes ago, nick76 said: How will it burst? Football will still be as popular afterwards, tv money will still be there because we pay for the tv subscriptions. It’s still the biggest sport in the world so advertisers will still flock to spend millions. Not sure what you are expecting to change as unless a large portion of fans back away from the game then it won’t change and fans won’t, in material numbers, move away from the game. Well, as mentioned it depends what you believe in general about the short to mid term global/European economic future. But I think we're heading towards a global depression with high unemployment, in which things like expensive tv subscriptions will be a unaffordable luxury for an increasing amount of people. Advertisers dont have endless budgets either. The current model is increasingly squeezing the average fan economically because, as you say, interest is still there and people pay for it. But if theres not enough new influx of money the bubble will eventually burst, it can not live on interest alone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OutByEaster? Posted April 8, 2020 Moderator Share Posted April 8, 2020 17 minutes ago, nick76 said: How will it burst? Football will still be as popular afterwards, tv money will still be there because we pay for the tv subscriptions. It’s still the biggest sport in the world so advertisers will still flock to spend millions. Not sure what you are expecting to change as unless a large portion of fans back away from the game then it won’t change and fans won’t, in material numbers, move away from the game. But it's already over inflated to a dangerous degree - the game can't cope with the slightest interruption because every club is already operating on the edge of collapse - and what's more, every club is encouraged to operate on the very edge of collapse, the mantra is that as long as you're growing your top line, growing the league, the reach, then screw the bottom line, screw your actual health as a going concern. This virus has most effect on those that already have existing health conditions - football is completely failing to recognise that its current situation is to a large extent down to how sick it was to start with and I can't see anyone out there looking at ways to make it healthier in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sparrow1988 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 6 minutes ago, nick76 said: How will it burst? Football will still be as popular afterwards, tv money will still be there because we pay for the tv subscriptions. It’s still the biggest sport in the world so advertisers will still flock to spend millions. Not sure what you are expecting to change as unless a large portion of fans back away from the game then it won’t change and fans won’t, in material numbers, move away from the game. Things are changing though. They have changed before and will again. How are Match/Shoot magazines doing these days? I heard it being dicussed on a podcast some time back. Youngsters "consume" football on youtube, twitter, highlights direct from clubs social media accounts etc. Very few watch sky or similar. There is so much other stuff to do/watch these days that they just want to watch the important stuff - in other words - highlights and not the 90% of the game where very little happens. What happens to Sky subscriptions if these habits follow through in to adult life? The number of people subscribing to Sky is already falling. It's a trend and as mentioned above if this crisis results in a global depression then the number of cancelled subscriptions will accelerate. Why pay Sky when you can watch it cheaper/for free? They also mentioned at what point will the clubs realise why are they outsourcing to Sky when they could just take the full amount themselves. Now obviously Sky/BT have the infrastructure already in place and from the reports of AVTV, the clubs don't but it is possible that it could happen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted April 8, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted April 8, 2020 18 hours ago, PaulC said: Of course but you wouldn’t expect anyone to admit it i'll happily admit it based on where we are now, i'd love season to be voided if we were say, 12th and guaranteed safe, i wouldn't mind either way but preference would be finish season in front of crowds so we can enjoy the last few games if we were in and around the european places i'd want season completed...in front of crowds or not...in this country or not...with the hope of a european tour next season all this based on the environment being safe to do so i will say, and not taking emergency services off the front line in the current climate not checked and nor will i be, but i bet you see a very different opinion to ours on liverpool and sheff utd forums...they'll want the season completed in any way it's possible to do so Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nick76 Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 53 minutes ago, OutByEaster? said: But it's already over inflated to a dangerous degree - the game can't cope with the slightest interruption because every club is already operating on the edge of collapse - and what's more, every club is encouraged to operate on the very edge of collapse, the mantra is that as long as you're growing your top line, growing the league, the reach, then screw the bottom line, screw your actual health as a going concern. This virus has most effect on those that already have existing health conditions - football is completely failing to recognise that its current situation is to a large extent down to how sick it was to start with and I can't see anyone out there looking at ways to make it healthier in the future. Yet year after year money is getting more and more. We thought that Sky had a monopoly on games and we had no choice but to buy their subscription and thus should be spread across multiple providers yet now I feel I'm paying much more with Sky, BT Sport and Amazon for games. Remember when we thought Shearer was expensive at 15m, then Mbappe and Neymar went to PSG for over ten times that. An average top end player is still quoted at a 9 figure fee and salaries which they get daily more than the average person gets a year. I agree it's dangerous and a slight interruption causes problems but do you seriously think the people running the game (including the high end players) are going to stop this beautiful cash cow they have. They continue to tap into new markets, as we are with Tanzania. There is still countless viewers that arent being tapped yet and the live, in the stadium, is becoming less important apart from a bit of tv viewing atmosphere. I agree with the other person commenting on this that YouTube, Streaming (both legal and illegal) are likely to impact this over the coming years but the audience for football is still there, there is still money to be made. Maybe in line with what you are saying and combining with what I am saying, maybe the outcome is a super european league of 18 teams and one competition. It's what they have always wanted and to hog all the money and then teams like Villa will go into a national league with the remaining ~15 teams from the PL that are not deemed worthy of this new league and we will have equivalent money of the championship or worse. At least football would be reset, we'd get our old first division football back and cover a lot of what you are talking about and the cash cow big wigs get their international money pits they have always wanted but havent had an excuse that would satisfy the masses without reprecussions. Too much money there at the moment for big cheeses to lose out on though. Edited April 8, 2020 by nick76 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fun Factory Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 (edited) 28 minutes ago, nick76 said: Maybe in line with what you are saying and combining with what I am saying, maybe the outcome is a super european league of 18 teams and one competition. Isn't that basically the champions league already? Bar a few random years (like Ajax last year) you can be pretty confident to predict who will be in the last 8 every season. The last time a team outside of England, Germany, Spain or Italy to have won the champions league was Porto in 2004. Every final has been a combination of teams from the said four leagues, not even PSG have reached it yet with billions of euros spent. The last time a team from Eastern Europe to have won it was Red Star Belgrade in 1991. Quite a bit has happened since then. Basically what I am saying why would they get rid of one competition and play in only one super league? It would mean less money in the long run. Edited April 8, 2020 by The Fun Factory Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulC Posted April 8, 2020 Share Posted April 8, 2020 56 minutes ago, tomav84 said: i'll happily admit it based on where we are now, i'd love season to be voided if we were say, 12th and guaranteed safe, i wouldn't mind either way but preference would be finish season in front of crowds so we can enjoy the last few games if we were in and around the european places i'd want season completed...in front of crowds or not...in this country or not...with the hope of a european tour next season all this based on the environment being safe to do so i will say, and not taking emergency services off the front line in the current climate not checked and nor will i be, but i bet you see a very different opinion to ours on liverpool and sheff utd forums...they'll want the season completed in any way it's possible to do so Very honest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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