Racism Part two

[bickster]

1 hour ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Freddie Mercury was born in an African colony of BE was he not? Would anyone say he was Ugandan? Or where ever it was. 

Tanzanian by birth.

Indian by Parentage (and schooling for that matter)

Naturalised British Citizen but didn't set foot on UK soil until he was a refugee at the age of 18

You can ignore the last one as it isn't relevant to the St Nich debate

 

[villa4europe]

31 minutes ago, tonyh29 said:

Millwall players released a statement before the game to say they supported the knee ... doesn’t seem to have made any difference 

their statement alludes to the “knee “ stopping in the new year and the club doing something else ... think that’s a club thing rather than an all clubs thing 

I can kind of see it

They're saying that nothing seems to have changed or moving so let's stop taking a knee and do something else, unfortunately I think corona would stop a chunk of it but these clubs could all go out in to their communities and try and make real change and influence on this, I'm not sure how that looks but I think it should be done, that's what the NFL seems to be doing now, they could of course do both... 

[mjmooney]

38 minutes ago, Follyfoot said:

Slightly off topic but I heard yesterday that Kim Jong whatever is name holds the course record at the main North Korean golf course, did he shoot an 11 under par 60 or maybe a 59? No he shot at 34 allegedly and he had only ever played golf once and that was his only round. All hail Kim

The stage is set for the champion golfer of the universe playoff, against Trump. 

[chrisp65]

I only have a single experience of Millwall and their fans.

We had a pre season friendly against them and the local police decided it had to be behind closed doors as they couldn’t be dealing with Millwall fans on an August weekend.

Millwall brought a press pack of about 70 or 80 with them, mostly in their teens and twenties and mostly wearing Burberry.

Have to say, every one of them was lovely, chatty and smiley. It was a good afternoon.

 

 

[HanoiVillan]

4 hours ago, Mark Albrighton said:

I don’t visit other clubs forums generally but thought I’d have a quick look to see the proportion of Millwall supporters condemning what happened today.

Wish I hadn’t, what a depressing read. 

I wouldn't get too down about it, my assumption is that about half the accounts are Rod Liddle talking to himself under different identities.

[dAVe80]

A conversation that definitely happened at The New Den 5th December 2020:

"Marxist innit, Clive? I'm no racist right, it's just I won't stand for a method of socioeconomic analysis right, that uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as histoical materialism, to understan class relations and social conflict as well as a dialectical perspective to view social transformation. BOOOOOOOOOOO!"

[Xela]

2 hours ago, dAVe80 said:

A conversation that definitely happened at The New Den 5th December 2020:

"Marxist innit, Clive? I'm no racist right, it's just I won't stand for a method of socioeconomic analysis right, that uses a materialist interpretation of historical development, better known as histoical materialism, to understan class relations and social conflict as well as a dialectical perspective to view social transformation. BOOOOOOOOOOO!"

Rubbish.

No one called Clive would support Millwall! 

[Wainy316]

I’ve been to the Den once for that last minute FA Cup defeat a few years back.

Their fans to the left of us were absolute scummy wrong’uns.  I even remember a fair amount of monkey gestures when Zog was taking a corner in front of them.

[Follyfoot]

On 05/12/2020 at 18:45, It's Your Round said:

I’m not surprised to hear the Millwall fans were booing the taking of the knee. They’ve always had a sizeable racist element. To be fair, most football clubs have a portion of fans that are racist rocket polishers. Villa are no different, much as that pains me to say. Football fans are just one cross section of society. It’s the most popular sport in the world, people of all types follow it. The difference with those Millwall fans was they were on telly, whereas you’re average racist dickhead is out of sight, spouting his bollocks in the pub, or on Facebook. To me, the world seems more racist now than it’s ever been in the last 20 years. 

Yes they have some idiots as many clubs have but they were no where near on a par with the likes of Chelsea who used to have people selling the Bulldog outside the Shed and later strong links with combat 18. They draw support from a very multi racial fanbase with many black and Turkish supporters, you only have to look at the turnout for Tiny's funeral, one of theor prominent black supporters from the 60's onwards, he was given a guard of honour by the club and fans around the ground who joined the onward procession. They have voted a black player, player of the year for five years on the spin, Saturdays booing has little to do with racism in my opinion. Yes they have had and still have a massive hooligan problem that they seem all to proud of but do not get fooled into the massive hype about them having a majority racist fan base, it is just not true.

This article from 2004 goes into detail from a Millwall fans point of view 

Quote

The old racism allegation rears it ugly head again.....

By Gazza

A reworking of an old article....

In the light of Stan Ternent's remarks, I have revised an article I wrote a couple of years ago in the wake of an anonymous Man City fan writing an outrageous slur on all Millwall fans that was picked up by the website Football365.com and then published in the Guardian. Since then the media stereotype has been reinforced by further attacks, which again are entirely unfounded.

http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacists2004.htm

 

[maqroll]

Knob

[theboyangel]

2 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Knob

What’s he done now? 

[Mark Albrighton]

10 minutes ago, maqroll said:

Knob

Hollywood’s having another stab at remaking the Lone Ranger and this is the replacement for Johnny Depp’s Tonto?

[Xela]

We can't talk about Jay Kay without mentioning one of my favourite videos

 

[maqroll]

1 hour ago, Xela said:

We can't talk about Jay Kay without mentioning one of my favourite videos

 

I couldn't even finish watching that it's too stupid

[maqroll]

This turns up near the top of a web search, lol

[HanoiVillan]

10 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Yes they have some idiots as many clubs have but they were no where near on a par with the likes of Chelsea who used to have people selling the Bulldog outside the Shed and later strong links with combat 18. They draw support from a very multi racial fanbase with many black and Turkish supporters, you only have to look at the turnout for Tiny's funeral, one of theor prominent black supporters from the 60's onwards, he was given a guard of honour by the club and fans around the ground who joined the onward procession. They have voted a black player, player of the year for five years on the spin, Saturdays booing has little to do with racism in my opinion. Yes they have had and still have a massive hooligan problem that they seem all to proud of but do not get fooled into the massive hype about them having a majority racist fan base, it is just not true.

It's maybe worth noting that at least one of Millwall's black players doesn't feel that the booing had little to do with racism:

'Afterwards some supporters claimed their actions were not racist but merely expressing their disdain for the politics of the “Marxist” Black Lives Matters movement. The Millwall defender Mahlon Romeo saw through that. “Spreading hatred”, he called it.

“What they’ve done is booed and condemned a peaceful gesture which was put in place to highlight, combat and stop any discriminatory behaviour and racism,” said Romeo, a London-born black player who has represented Antigua and Barbuda. “That’s it – that’s all that gesture is. But in society there is a problem – and that problem is racism.”'

quote from: https://www.theguardian.com/football/blog/2020/dec/06/toxicity-on-show-at-millwall-goes-beyond-the-club-and-football

[Keyblade]

"Marxist" is just a buzzword. The people who regurgitate that line have no idea it's an anti-Semitic dogwhistle in the context they use it. I'm fairly certain their opposition isn't an economic one.

[maqroll]

11 hours ago, Follyfoot said:

Yes they have some idiots as many clubs have but they were no where near on a par with the likes of Chelsea who used to have people selling the Bulldog outside the Shed and later strong links with combat 18. They draw support from a very multi racial fanbase with many black and Turkish supporters, you only have to look at the turnout for Tiny's funeral, one of theor prominent black supporters from the 60's onwards, he was given a guard of honour by the club and fans around the ground who joined the onward procession. They have voted a black player, player of the year for five years on the spin, Saturdays booing has little to do with racism in my opinion. Yes they have had and still have a massive hooligan problem that they seem all to proud of but do not get fooled into the massive hype about them having a majority racist fan base, it is just not true.

This article from 2004 goes into detail from a Millwall fans point of view 

http://www.millwall-history.org.uk/MillwallvTheRacists2004.htm

 

I wonder if the Millwall booing thing is about feeling put upon by a social movement that didn't start in Britain? Maybe they think it's gone on too long now. No matter what is is, it's not a good look for the club.

Playing Devil's Advocate, mind you.

Edited December 7, 2020 by maqroll

[Keyblade]

1 minute ago, maqroll said:

I wonder if the Millwall booing thing is about feeling put upon by a social movement that didn't start in Britain? Maybe they think it's gone on too long now. No matter what is is, it's not a good look for the club.

The crux of the issue opposed by that social movement ironically can be sourced directly to Britain.

Also, regardless the PL and FA have made pretty clear that the gestures/slogans etc are in opposition to racism in general and not just in solidarity with the United States.

[LondonLax]

5 minutes ago, Keyblade said:

"Marxist" is just a buzzword. The people who regurgitate that line have no idea it's an anti-Semitic dogwhistle in the context they use it. I'm fairly certain their opposition isn't an economic one.

The original founders of BLM had stated they are Marxists with the intention of the movement being a political frame (though obviously the majority of people who have taken up the cause since are not!) 

Quote

 I think that the criticism is helpful. I also think that it might–. I think of a lot of things. The first thing, I think, is that we actually do have an ideological frame. Myself and Alicia in particular are trained organizers. We are trained Marxists. We are super-versed on, sort of, ideological theories. And I think that what we really tried to do is build a movement that could be utilized by many, many black folk. We don’t necessarily want to be the vanguard of this movement. I think we’ve tried to put out a political frame that’s about centering who we think are the most vulnerable amongst the black community, to really fight for all of our lives. And I do think that we have some clear direction around where we want to take this movement. I don’t believe it’s going to fizzle out. It just gets stronger, and we see it, right.

https://therealnews.com/pcullors0722blacklives

We want to show solidarity in the face of police brutality and racism more generally but it makes things more complicated to get consensus if BLM is going to be the new vehicle for that, in place of ‘kick it out’ or other more neutral organisations that were previously actively fighting racism.

On the other hand maybe controversy/polarisation is a good way to get headlines and keep the topic on people’s minds?

I can’t help but think that this kind of polarisation of opinions only drives people further into a more extreme position though. That Guardian article linked above is a pretty good example. I can’t imagine Millwall fans reading that are going to jump onboard with the cause. It’s more likely to make them even more defensive about their position.