Seat68 Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Last night Millwall and QPR players linked hands and stood together in a show of unity against racism. The 2000 Millwall fans who attended applauded this gesture. It's odd that this has not received comment here. Do you have a comment on it? Its great that Millwall weren’t being racist a second time. Lets pat them on the head for it. Especially now they have proven beyond doubt that it wasnt racism but a nuanced view of marxism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 minute ago, Seat68 said: Do you have a comment on it? Its great that Millwall weren’t being racist a second time. Lets pat them on the head for it. Especially now they have proven beyond doubt that it wasnt racism but a nuanced view of marxism. I had made some comments a couple of pages back musing on whether it is better to push for equality via the approach favored by BLM or by organisations like 'Kick It Out' . It sounds like the Millwall fans are very much more in favour of the second approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Seat68 Posted December 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 9, 2020 3 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I had made some comments a couple of pages back musing on whether it is better to push for equality via the approach favored by BLM or by organisations like 'Kick It Out' . It sounds like the Millwall fans are very much more in favour of the second approach. Seemingly. My view is they chose not to listen to the detail of why the players took a knee. Now the world is watching them, they altered their racist behaviour. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 16 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Last night Millwall and QPR players linked hands and stood together in a show of unity against racism. The 2000 Millwall fans who attended applauded this gesture. It's odd that this has not received comment here. It has, it's odd that you didn't spot it 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Racists win don't they? They booed, the gesture changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, bickster said: It has, it's odd that you didn't spot it Cheers! I'd missed Davkaus's comment last night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 9, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 9, 2020 Just now, LondonLax said: Cheers! I'd missed Davkaus's comment last night. Twas on the same page you posted on. I think it wasn't discussed in length because a) people were watching football b) the PSG v Istanbul thing kind of happened around the same time and c) personally speaking I had nothing to add to what had been said. We also had the QPR Goal Celebration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam-AVFC Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 8 minutes ago, LondonLax said: I had made some comments a couple of pages back musing on whether it is better to push for equality via the approach favored by BLM or by organisations like 'Kick It Out' . It sounds like the Millwall fans are very much more in favour of the second approach. The PL have now distanced themselves from BLM and 'taking the knee' is a gesture that existed long before George Floyd was choked to death by policemen. It was a sportsman who made it (in)famous as a gesture, not 'marxists'. What is the big problem with the approach of players kneeling for 10 seconds? I really struggle to see how this hurts anyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tomav84 Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 28 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Last night Millwall and QPR players linked hands and stood together in a show of unity against racism. The 2000 Millwall fans who attended applauded this gesture. It's odd that this has not received comment here. take a look at the below forum. they chose not to because the eyes of the world were on them...there are even some posts in this of fans unable to attend because they just couldn't bear not to boo for those 10 seconds https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/for-the-sake-of-the-club-we-all-love-please-no-booing-tonight-the-eyes-of-the-world-are-on-us.45662/ have a little browse around that forum whilst you're there. there's a big problem within that club...the booing tells just a small part of the story. utter words removed, the lot of them 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 minutes ago, Sam-AVFC said: The PL have now distanced themselves from BLM and 'taking the knee' is a gesture that existed long before George Floyd was choked to death by policemen. It was a sportsman who made it (in)famous as a gesture, not 'marxists'. What is the big problem with the approach of players kneeling for 10 seconds? I really struggle to see how this hurts anyone. Yes I believe it was NFL player Colin Kaepernick who knelt instead of standing for the US anthem. I think he was swiftly bounced out of the game and has struggled to find a club since. It was a brave gesture which advanced the debate at significant personal cost to himself. Personally I think it's great if players want to show solidarity by making the same gesture. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 42 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Last night Millwall and QPR players linked hands and stood together in a show of unity against racism. The 2000 Millwall fans who attended applauded this gesture. It's odd that this has not received comment here. Noted arbiter of anti-racism Nigel Farage loved it anyway: Personally I think any gesture that not only doesn't discomfit Nigel Farage, but is actually pleasing to him, is quite literally an empty gesture that is completely meaningless. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 6 minutes ago, tomav84 said: take a look at the below forum. they chose not to because the eyes of the world were on them...there are even some posts in this of fans unable to attend because they just couldn't bear not to boo for those 10 seconds https://millwall-forum.vitalfootball.co.uk/threads/for-the-sake-of-the-club-we-all-love-please-no-booing-tonight-the-eyes-of-the-world-are-on-us.45662/ have a little browse around that forum whilst you're there. there's a big problem within that club...the booing tells just a small part of the story. utter words removed, the lot of them Ok so I have read through the four pages of that Millwall thread () and it sounds like the discussion is essentially a crude summary what I was talking about. I didn't see anyone who wanted to boo a regular anti racism gesture/banner like the one that occurred at the start of the match but there are clearly some of them who think 'taking a knee' is a reference to a political cause and a number of them are saying that they are willing to boo that regardless of how that makes them look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 10 minutes ago, HanoiVillan said: Noted arbiter of anti-racism Nigel Farage loved it anyway: Personally I think any gesture that not only doesn't discomfit Nigel Farage, but is actually pleasing to him, is quite literally an empty gesture that is completely meaningless. I suppose it comes down to the age old debate on whether confrontation or collaboration is the more effective strategy. A microcosm of the debate between Malcolm X or Martin Luther King Jr in a way? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 14 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Ok so I have read through the four pages of that Millwall thread () and it sounds like the discussion is essentially a crude summary what I was talking about. I didn't see anyone who wanted to boo a regular anti racism gesture/banner like the one that occurred at the start of the match but there are clearly some of them who think 'taking a knee' is a reference to a political cause and a number of them are saying that they are willing to boo that regardless of how that makes them look. No one likes them, they don't care Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChrisVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 49 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: Racists win don't they? They booed, the gesture changed. Now now. They're not racists because it's technically possible they're all political philosophy graduates. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said: What is the big problem with the approach of players kneeling for 10 seconds? I really struggle to see how this hurts anyone. It's because to promote a movement that is pro-equality, suggests that there is inequality to begin with. And angry white men don't like being told that they're doing something wrong. Therefore they'll deny that racism exists, and there is no need for the movement, and use the cloak of "I don't like political movements in football" to cover their inherent racism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stevo985 Posted December 9, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: there are clearly some of them who think 'taking a knee' is a reference to a political cause and a number of them are saying that they are willing to boo that regardless of how that makes them look. Racists who have read this said by someone else and use it to hide their own racism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 1 hour ago, LondonLax said: I suppose it comes down to the age old debate on whether confrontation or collaboration is the more effective strategy. A microcosm of the debate between Malcolm X or Martin Luther King Jr in a way? Collaboration to do what though? Nothing is actually being achieved by holding hands. I'm not quite seeing the Malcolm X/MLK Jr parallel; Nigel Farage is George Wallace, who hated them both. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 Just now, HanoiVillan said: Collaboration to do what though? Nothing is actually being achieved by holding hands. I'm not quite seeing the Malcolm X/MLK Jr parallel; Nigel Farage is George Wallace, who hated them both. Haha Farage was not supposed to be either of them I was thinking more that 'BLM' was Malcolm X and 'Kick it Out' was MLK Jr in this analogy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bannedfromHandV Posted December 9, 2020 Share Posted December 9, 2020 2 hours ago, Sam-AVFC said: The PL have now distanced themselves from BLM and 'taking the knee' is a gesture that existed long before George Floyd was choked to death by policemen. It was a sportsman who made it (in)famous as a gesture, not 'marxists'. What is the big problem with the approach of players kneeling for 10 seconds? I really struggle to see how this hurts anyone. How long does it go on for? Indefinitely? The point has been made as much as it’s going to be made, it’s losing any effectiveness it may have had as a symbolic gesture of support and is now just something the players do as a matter of course. If it had been down to the PL and the clubs I suggest this would have stopped already but they’ll let it drag out until it’s more socially acceptable to stop it altogether. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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