Dean Smith

[sidcow]

One thing I would like to discuss is the pressure of being Villa manager. 

There has been much talk on here about how managers need to hit the ground running, the weight of expectation crushing managers, the pressure turning them to jelly etc. 

I just don't get this. I think Villa Park is actually quite forgiving and sticks with managers through a lot of thin. 

Social media throws up a lot of keyboard warriors and every club has a few dickheads around the dugout but in reality managers here can go quite a while with poor performances, going out of cups early, dour football  before the crowd really turns.   Even against Preston there were some Stevie Bruce chants going after 2 years of underperfomance and mind numbingly dull football. 

Quite a number of people still think we got rid of DiMatteo too early then and even now. 

I actually think we are a quite forgiving bunch who will put up with a fair bit before the crowd turns. 

It baffles me when I keep hearing people talk about the pressure of the job. 

 

 

Edited October 18, 2018 by sidcow

[srsmithusa]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

But it’s only really Barry that’s actually been of a high calibre. 

Albrighton won the league (not single handedly, or course)

[TRO]

36 minutes ago, mjmooney said:

What? Ask  Villa fans ANYTHING, and I guarantee they won't be unanimous, they'll immediately split into diametrically opposed factions! 

So Brexit is not unique.

[DaveAV1]

1 hour ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

We're a Championship club. They are all of a high calibre relative to our position, which is the entire point. Maybe Doyle-Hayes, Mitch Clark and O'Hare aren't 'top level' players, but there's little evidence they can't be at least good enough, or better than, our current position. 

Ni Lampety , you’re all forgetting Ni Lampety....

 

[Tommo_b]

7 hours ago, srsmithusa said:

Albrighton won the league (not single handedly, or course)

Hah oh cmon now, although Alrighton won the league he wasn’t a great footballer in fact most of that Leicester team were not great, which is why it made it for me at least refreshing they won the league, gave me hope that with the right blend of hard work and determination anyone could challenge.

[wilko154]

9 hours ago, stegzy said:

I just hope we all have patience with the style  as I’m sure there will be plenty of mistakes for a while as the team get used to playing exciting 1 touch football as there will be misplaced passes because we have become so used to playing it slow and sensible (or aimless booting) for a long time now.

Would probably be worth having Jedinak playing in front of the defence as we transition to mop up any mistakes and be the one person with the instruction to play it safe (and win all the headers).  Once we have adapted to the style of play and our defence form an understanding I could see McGinn taking over that role.

Don't want it to go the way of Lambert as he seemed to try and play football at first but when it wasn’t working he ended up getting more defensive and then lost any sort of style at all In the end.

If we are patient and he sticks with his philosophy I believe we are really going places this time.

UTV

Personally I would rather see Whelan in front of the defence mopping up mistakes, unfortunately Jedinak is now too slow and he gets caught out on the turn. Aerially he is superb, and so he needs rotating with Whelan in the appropriate games until we can play without a defensive midfielder in their mould.

[wilko154]

8 hours ago, sidcow said:

One thing I would like to discuss is the pressure of being Villa manager. 

There has been much talk on here about how managers need to hit the ground running, the weight of expectation crushing managers, the pressure turning them to jelly etc. 

I just don't get this. I think Villa Park is actually quite forgiving and sticks with managers through a lot of thin. 

Social media throws up a lot of keyboard warriors and every club has a few dickheads around the dugout but in reality managers here can go quite a while with poor performances, going out of cups early, dour football  before the crowd really turns.   Even against Preston there were some Stevie Bruce chants going after 2 years of underperfomance and mind numbingly dull football. 

Quite a number of people still think we got rid of DiMatteo too early then and even now. 

I actually think we are a quite forgiving bunch who will put up with a fair bit before the crowd turns. 

It baffles me when I keep hearing people talk about the pressure of the job. 

Agreed.

It's the Twitter and Forum keyboard warriors that turn the quickest on managers. It happened on here last season where people were against Bruce even when we were in the top 6.

I go home and away and it's only been the last 4-5 games where the fans have started turning, yet even up until Bristol City the away fans were divided between getting behind the team and rallying against the manager.

Personally I think Smith will get a 1-2 months grace here before the fans start worrying about results. I also don't think he will need it with his and his teams tactical ideas combined with the first team we have. Just playing players in their correct positions for a start will help!

[blandy]

8 hours ago, mjmooney said:

they'll immediately split into diametrically opposed factions! 

Oh no they won’t.

[TrentVilla]

8 hours ago, sidcow said:

One thing I would like to discuss is the pressure of being Villa manager....

I came into this thread with the same topic in mind, I can almost guarantee somewhere in the media tomorrow someone will be talking about the 42k attendance at Villa Park and talking abou the pressure of the job, the expectancy of the fans.

The reality for me is that with a succession of managers the fans have been pretty supportive, tolerant even of some fairly abject football. Yes there have been grumbles but its taken quite a lot for the fans on mass to turn, Bolton at home was the breaking point with McLeish, Bruce's was more gradual but I'd argue could and should have happened much earlier. In general though I think the fans have tried to support the managers in the main.

That said, there is clearly a pressure to the Villa job, there has been in recent times a disconnection between expectations and reality particularly I feel in the post O'Neill Lerner years not so much under XIa.

What has been clear though is that managers have felt pressure, just look at pictures of Lambert when he arrived, towards the end of his tenure and then now. You can see what the pressure of the job did to him it is literally all over his face.

I also think the pressure of the job has influenced the way managers play, not Bruce or McLeish but definitely Lambert and perhaps even Garde and Houllier. We've seen managers come to Villa with a positive passing game, an attacking style only to morph in the job into something else. That can only be due to the pressure of the job, the demand for results and our inability to act effectively in the transfer market.

In Smith we've a manager who is committed, utterly committed to playing the game a certain way. What will be crucial for his and our success is that he sticks to his philosophy, that he is strong enough to stick to it through any poor periods of results, that the pressure of the job doesn't make him buckle and change. Because there is a pressure being Villa manager and not especially one that comes from the stands, for Smith you would imagine there will be an internal pressure because of what this job means to him.

What Villa needs more than anything is a manager with the right philosophy and who is strong enough to stick to it, I think we've got that guy and if you listen to Purslow speak he thinks we've got that guy. Forget what was said about FFP I think that was the most important point made in the press conference, in Purslow we've someone who understands the importance of a football philosophy, something ingrained in club and which the manager sticks to regardless of results, I hope and believe Smith will do that as Purslow does.

As a club we've flip flopped, O'Neill's counter attack to Houllier's more measured approach then panicked and went for no attack and lump it McLeish, then a more attacking (initially) style with Lambert, then Sherwood and I still don't know what, then Garde and an attempt to go continental again, then Di Matteo who wasn't around long enough to know, then Bruce....

It is a mess as has been the squad throughout this period as its been ripped up and built numerous times, with various players and millions discarded  along the way.

We as a fan base will I'm sure support Smith as we've done those before him, what we need from him is the strength of belief and character to stick to his principles irrespective of results, much as Howe has always done at Bournemouth, as a fan base we need to recognise and support that and crucially so do those running the club.

Pressure will come but if we are ever to move forward again as club, from the owners down the club needs to be united on its path but more than anything it needs Smith to hold true to his beliefs. If he does then the results will come and Villa Park will be rocking again, its been way too long since that was the case.

 

[markavfc40]

9 hours ago, sidcow said:

One thing I would like to discuss is the pressure of being Villa manager. 

There has been much talk on here about how managers need to hit the ground running, the weight of expectation crushing managers, the pressure turning them to jelly etc. 

I just don't get this. I think Villa Park is actually quite forgiving and sticks with managers through a lot of thin. 

I don't think there is any way of really knowing how he will handle the pressure here. There is nothing in his past in terms of where he has played and managed to show he can handle it but that isn't to say he can't.

I just hope as Trent said that he doesn't waver in his beliefs in how the game should be played and sticks to his philosophies even if he if he isn't getting results. As a fan base we have a big part to play in that by being 100% behind the manager whilst he implements his way of playing and by showing some patience with the the players and allow them time to transition to a new style of playing without becoming edgy and getting on their backs especially at Villa Park.

Despite how some of the media portray us I think if as a fan base we can see a clear plan and that we are striving for a definitive way of playing that we will get right behind it. The problems have come when you can clearly see the manager has ran out of ideas, or didn't really have any in the first place, and is flip flopping from one formation and way of playing to another hoping to get lucky and when that fails going completely into his shell and ultra negative when not losing becomes the key objective rather than trying to win. That shouldn't be the case under Smith. He does have a philosophy and the fact it is an attacking one means that we should all be happy to get behind him and allow the team time to evolve.

This club is straining at the leash in wanting to really take off. We sit 15th in the table and tomorrow is a sell out. When, and I believe it is a case of when not if, Smith gets the team week in week out playing attractive on the front foot attacking football and results are coming with it those sold out signs will be a regular occurrence and this club will really lift off again.

It is an amazing opportunity for Smith at a huge football club. It is also an amazing opportunity for us as supporters for the first time in years to get behind someone with a defined philosophy and a way of playing that will be a joy to watch. If we all embrace it and give it time to evolve we are going to be on to something really special.

Edited October 19, 2018 by markavfc40

[Vive_La_Villa]

Anything other than a mid table finish this season is a bonus for me. I think we are a poor team and massively overrated. Smith will need at least two windows to put his stamp on the team.

This season is almost a free pass in my opinion. After next summer he will be properly judged.

[mikeyp102]

18 minutes ago, Vive_La_Villa said:

Anything other than a mid table finish this season is a bonus for me. I think we are a poor team and massively overrated. Smith will need at least two windows to put his stamp on the team.

This season is almost a free pass in my opinion. After next summer he will be properly judged.

I think you do the squad a massive disservice. Yes the defence is weak, but going forward we have players who should be terrifying most teams. Look at Albion, they can’t defend either so have gone all out attack. 

With Kodj and Abraham, and Hogan as back up, we have a strike force to rival all others in this league. Then throw in Grealish and Bolasie and we have approx £40m of talent feeding them. Then McGinn and hourihane from midfield add even more goals. We should be aiming for play offs at least.

[Stevo985]

6 minutes ago, mikeyp102 said:

I think you do the squad a massive disservice. Yes the defence is weak, but going forward we have players who should be terrifying most teams. Look at Albion, they can’t defend either so have gone all out attack. 

With Kodj and Abraham, and Hogan as back up, we have a strike force to rival all others in this league. Then throw in Grealish and Bolasie and we have approx £40m of talent feeding them. Then McGinn and hourihane from midfield add even more goals. We should be aiming for play offs at least.

I half agree with you. 

I think we have a huge deficiency in the squad. but it's in defence. In front of that I think we're incredibly strong.

If we can find a way to make the most of that then we can still have a good season.

Bruce's problem is that he builds from the back. Which I don't have a problem with generally. But he ended up with a top heavy squad and didn't know how to use it. he was still trying to build us from the back but we have a crap defence. It doesn't work.

If Smith can get us relying on our attack to outscore the opponents then we can still be successful this season. And it may well be very exciting at the same time.

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

I came into this thread with the same topic in mind, I can almost guarantee somewhere in the media tomorrow someone will be talking about the 42k attendance at Villa Park and talking abou the pressure of the job, the expectancy of the fans.

The reality for me is that with a succession of managers the fans have been pretty supportive, tolerant even of some fairly abject football. Yes there have been grumbles but its taken quite a lot for the fans on mass to turn, Bolton at home was the breaking point with McLeish, Bruce's was more gradual but I'd argue could and should have happened much earlier. In general though I think the fans have tried to support the managers in the main.

That said, there is clearly a pressure to the Villa job, there has been in recent times a disconnection between expectations and reality particularly I feel in the post O'Neill Lerner years not so much under XIa.

What has been clear though is that managers have felt pressure, just look at pictures of Lambert when he arrived, towards the end of his tenure and then now. You can see what the pressure of the job did to him it is literally all over his face.

I also think the pressure of the job has influenced the way managers play, not Bruce or McLeish but definitely Lambert and perhaps even Garde and Houllier. We've seen managers come to Villa with a positive passing game, an attacking style only to morph in the job into something else. That can only be due to the pressure of the job, the demand for results and our inability to act effectively in the transfer market.

In Smith we've a manager who is committed, utterly committed to playing the game a certain way. What will be crucial for his and our success is that he sticks to his philosophy, that he is strong enough to stick to it through any poor periods of results, that the pressure of the job doesn't make him buckle and change. Because there is a pressure being Villa manager and not especially one that comes from the stands, for Smith you would imagine there will be an internal pressure because of what this job means to him.

What Villa needs more than anything is a manager with the right philosophy and who is strong enough to stick to it, I think we've got that guy and if you listen to Purslow speak he thinks we've got that guy. Forget what was said about FFP I think that was the most important point made in the press conference, in Purslow we've someone who understands the importance of a football philosophy, something ingrained in club and which the manager sticks to regardless of results, I hope and believe Smith will do that as Purslow does.

As a club we've flip flopped, O'Neill's counter attack to Houllier's more measured approach then panicked and went for no attack and lump it McLeish, then a more attacking (initially) style with Lambert, then Sherwood and I still don't know what, then Garde and an attempt to go continental again, then Di Matteo who wasn't around long enough to know, then Bruce....

It is a mess as has been the squad throughout this period as its been ripped up and built numerous times, with various players and millions discarded  along the way.

We as a fan base will I'm sure support Smith as we've done those before him, what we need from him is the strength of belief and character to stick to his principles irrespective of results, much as Howe has always done at Bournemouth, as a fan base we need to recognise and support that and crucially so do those running the club.

Pressure will come but if we are ever to move forward again as club, from the owners down the club needs to be united on its path but more than anything it needs Smith to hold true to his beliefs. If he does then the results will come and Villa Park will be rocking again, its been way too long since that was the case.

 

Excellent post, and this is the most important bit. The fans also have a big part to play in supporting him in what may well be a slow process.

[bobzy]

1 hour ago, TrentVilla said:

In Smith we've a manager who is committed, utterly committed to playing the game a certain way. What will be crucial for his and our success is that he sticks to his philosophy, that he is strong enough to stick to it through any poor periods of results, that the pressure of the job doesn't make him buckle and change. Because there is a pressure being Villa manager and not especially one that comes from the stands, for Smith you would imagine there will be an internal pressure because of what this job means to him.

What Villa needs more than anything is a manager with the right philosophy and who is strong enough to stick to it, I think we've got that guy and if you listen to Purslow speak he thinks we've got that guy. Forget what was said about FFP I think that was the most important point made in the press conference, in Purslow we've someone who understands the importance of a football philosophy, something ingrained in club and which the manager sticks to regardless of results, I hope and believe Smith will do that as Purslow does.

Great post - hits the nail on the head really.  Just picking up this part as I think this is crucial in terms of absolutely everything we've done beforehand.

I think, whilst there are certainly still expectations of promotion (some think we have the strongest squad in the league), these are somewhat softened compared to the last 2 seasons.  Maybe it's all just part of adjusting to life in a lower division, I don't know, but it seems to be there.  The way the managers have been sold - from Di Matteo; "CL winning manager, got promoted from the Championship" to Bruce; "no other manager has been promoted from the Championship as often" and now Smith is basically "plays attractive football, develops players", the stance is softening.  That isn't to say we shouldn't be aiming for as high as is possible - we absolutely should be - just that maybe the pressure is easing a little.  Maybe we're actually more interested in getting behind a man who loves the club and a team which plays aesthetically pleasing football, whatever that may be...

...and that ties in with your comment, I think Smith automatically gets afforded more time.  The fan base now is more interested in being able to affiliate with the team again and Smith, being a Villa fan, will tug at the heart strings somewhat.  We'll have sticky patches of form, but a philosophy, an identity, a way of getting a cohesive team together and signs of things getting better will be the key points.  Obviously, struggling mid to lower league won't work and pressure will build.  Otherwise, I think he's got the job at almost the perfect time and it could well be a long-term bond between us and Smith.  Here's hoping, anyway.

[TrentVilla]

28 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I half agree with you. 

I think we have a huge deficiency in the squad. but it's in defence. In front of that I think we're incredibly strong.

If we can find a way to make the most of that then we can still have a good season.

Bruce's problem is that he builds from the back. Which I don't have a problem with generally. But he ended up with a top heavy squad and didn't know how to use it. he was still trying to build us from the back but we have a crap defence. It doesn't work.

If Smith can get us relying on our attack to outscore the opponents then we can still be successful this season. And it may well be very exciting at the same time.

I agree with your overall point, I just don't believe Bruce built anything from anywhere in terms of a style of play. It was solid at the back and hope for the best/depend on players talent and nothing more but that is gone now.

I agree with you entirely re our squad and being on the front foot.

[TrentVilla]

16 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Excellent post, and this is the most important bit. The fans also have a big part to play in supporting him in what may well be a slow process.

Fans and board. I think the fans are probably now ready to support this process and I think we now have a board that is willing to do so particularly in Christian Purslow. In the past I don't think that either were particularly the case.

Those old enough to remember Brian Little's appointment might recall how we struggled a little when he first arrived, we draw a fair few games if I recall correctly. There was though no pressure from the fans because it was so evident what he was trying to do with the team, you could see the work from the training ground, you could see a philosophy, a system he was trying to embed and people gave him time. And yes, who he was helped. I see a lot of similarities from that period with the coming weeks with Dean Smith.

Conversely that is why I was so damned fast to be on the case of McLeish and Bruce, even when we were winning games consistently under the later because of the absolute absence of evidence of coaching, of player or system development, style or philosophy. It was never ever ever going to last because it was built upon sand.

[markavfc40]

22 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

Those old enough to remember Brian Little's appointment might recall how we struggled a little when he first arrived, we draw a fair few games if I recall correctly. There was though no pressure from the fans because it was so evident what he was trying to do with the team, you could see the work from the training ground, you could see a philosophy, a system he was trying to embed and people gave him time. And yes, who he was helped. I see a lot of similarities from that period with the coming weeks with Dean Smith.

In fairness that whole first few months between when he arrived in November until the end of the season was a real struggle and we were only confirmed as staying up on the last day of the season.

I think the reason fans gave Little more grace is like you say we could see what he was trying to do and also the fact he did have that connection with the club along with his coaching staff. It is not too dissimilar to now in that Smith has a connection with him being a local lad and a fan of the club and having an ex player/captain in Terry on his coaching staff. 

I don't foresee us struggling this season and am hopeful we will see a big upturn in results and performances. If he can get the best out of our midfield and attack and have them playing the way Brentford did then given man for man our players are of a higher standard then that is some prospect. 

The big issue is the defence but I don't think a centre back pairing of Chester and Axel then 2 from 4 in Bree, Hutton, Elmo, Taylor at fullback is that bad for this level. I'd like to think having more of a front foot approach in games and not asking our defence to soak up pressure will help us defensively.

I am certainly not writing this season off in terms of us achieving promotion but if we don't, or don't even come close, that certainly shouldn't be used as a stick to beat Smith with so long as we can see progress is being made in terms of how we are playing and we end the season with plenty to be optimistic about for the following season.

Edited October 19, 2018 by markavfc40

[Condimentalist]

Any idea when his pre match presser is? 

[markavfc40]

6 minutes ago, PatrickCousens said:

Any idea when his pre match presser is? 

I am not sure he will do one given he did a press conference on Monday and spoke about tomorrows game then.