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Just now, villalad21 said:

That's all fair enough.

Still have a good squad on paper though and i would expect the team to win comfortable against Wigan, Ipswich and Reading, but we aren't.  

we dont though, I said it in summer that we had a mid-table squad that was unbalanced. Players that arent good enough. Adomah, Jedinak, Hutton, Taylor, Whelan, Elmo among others are past it and wont get a higher club next season.

Then we had 1 senior centre back for 5 months, Tuanzebe was still unproven at this point and an untested goalkeeper who was really treated like shit also by the club as a better keeper was needed when playing in front of such a weak defence

How many Villa players not including loans would get into the top 6 teams in this division? Jack yes maybe McGinn at a push

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1 hour ago, Dave J said:

No - just because I disagree with you - does not make me silly - you sound just like another poster on here - that you know well.

Tell you what phone the club and ask to speak with the powers that be - they'll tell you in more elequent terms than I ever could - just how much a disaster last season was.

You do realise because of the promotion guru's inability to deliver his targets ( again I must add) - we could have lost our club?

Yes I agree that he wasn't in charge of the clubs coffers - but if he had delivered  -  the mess would not have happened and we might still have Johnstone, Terry and Snodgrass 

And this is where the conversation ends Dave.

You think Bruce is to blame for everything that went wrong, I think whilst Bruce played a part in it, that responsibility was shared by 30 or more people.

I don't think you look silly because you disagree with me Dave, I think you look silly because you cannot see past your contempt for Bruce as an individual.

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3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

Still blaming injuries for the bad results i see.

We get smacked by Wigan 3-0, narrowly beat Ipswich and fail to score against Reading. It's obviously only because we miss Jack and Axel, no way is there any other reason to why we can't beat the worst teams in the league.

There is a reason if our team isn't good enough.

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26 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

And this is where the conversation ends Dave.

You think Bruce is to blame for everything that went wrong, I think whilst Bruce played a part in it, that responsibility was shared by 30 or more people.

I don't think you look silly because you disagree with me Dave, I think you look silly because you cannot see past your contempt for Bruce as an individual.

Completely and utterly unfounded.

I'm one of a number on here who have never resorted to personal abuse of the man - I just happen to think that he is a totally average football manager.

I have held these thoughts for many years - way before he unfortunately rocked up with us.

I knew the day  he arrived what we would be getting - unfortunately he didn't disappoint 🙁

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6 hours ago, Vincenzo said:

I’m guessing that most of us would probably choose the following 4 players out of our squad as key:

Jack Grealish 

Axel

John McGinn

Tammy Abraham

They are the spine of our team imo

Then we lose 2 of them to injuries

The Stoke game highlighted the problem we have had since Grealish got injured. No one in midfield who can collect and carry the ball forward confidently. So it gets passed out to the full backs or wingers who are immediately closed down.

Losing Axel made it worse as he could play it out of defence more effectively than our other centre halfs (don’t know about Mings yet)

It’s no surprise then that we have struggled. DS still wants to play the same way but the players aren’t able to or don’t feel confident enough  taking on the responsibility.

I blame the players for letting him down. That’s why he persists with Whelan because he has the confidence to ask for the ball. Unfortunately he is limited with what he can do with it.

Changing tactics because your players aren’t able to adapt to your style of play is a backward step.

Players need to adapt or leave.

I’ve no doubt Dean Smith and his coaching staff will come good, but it will take time.

UTV

 

I am not as sure as you about that....but accept it is an issue.....like all the rest.

I think Dean has realised, that after subsequent games, his players can't do consistently what he is asking and had to adjust his thoughts to what he has....not ideal, but maybe necessary to secure points....could be why its starting to look a little bit like Bruce's team again.

I understand your view, but you still have to pick up points and only transition will suffice...its tricky.

I think he will get it right, but not necessarily in the timescale we want.

We have to remember....The 10 years or so of bumping along and making mistakes, has no bearing on any manager coming in and getting instant success.

The scale of the problem that Dean has not manufactured, cannot necessarily be negated in a few windows....I just simply cannot believe that he doesn't see what we see. He knows....but knowing it and fixing it is a whole different thing.

 

 

Edited by TRO
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5 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Never? Can't believe that.

I meant the quality of the league was really poor. Cardiff got second playing long balls over full backs. We just did our usual Brucey nonsense. Some people enjoyed it, some people didn't.

I enjoyed it because I went to every game thinking we could win. Last season I was counting down the days until the next game and that isn't something I'd done for years. Before that going to the Villa felt horrible and it was hard work getting exited about going. 

I hope Smith can get that back. He'll be getting the same treatment that I gave Bruce he'll get next season to prove himself.  Those that didn't give Bruce the same time surely it's a bit hypocritical to give Smith more time than you gave Bruce. 

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8 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

We'd be in the Premier League now if Dean Smith was appointed June 2016.

I agree with most of your post. Just not this bit yet.

Again this isn't a dig at Smith. I'm happy we have him and I'm optimistic with him in charge. But I think we need more time to judge whether he'll be a success here.

I'm so far unconvinced, despite him having my full backing.

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8 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Did you not have it around November/December as well? It was the best football I've seen Villa play for at least 10 years. Couldn't wait to go to the next match.

It was the sort of stuff we should have been playing since we've been relegated. Football Bruce should have been playing. We'd have romped the league if we had had a decent manager in charge.

It's always missed when Bruce is praised above Lambert/McLeish/Houllier. We're in the division below!! We should have been dominating. We probably still should to be honest. The man in charge has a plan now, even if it's faltering with the various injuries and disgraceful holes left for him in the squad. I'll take that over unsustainable, dull, no-idea football.

We'd be in the Premier League now if Dean Smith was appointed June 2016.

I agree with you post Tomaszk except the last piece, it's an unknown entity imo.

We certainly had the squad to do it last season.

4 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I agree with most of your post. Just not this bit yet.

Again this isn't a dig at Smith. I'm happy we have him and I'm optimistic with him in charge. But I think we need more time to judge whether he'll be a success here.

I'm so far unconvinced, despite him having my full backing.

This is where I am also at.

The honeymoon period was a breath of fresh air, since then it's not been all that.

(Yes we've been without Jack and Axel) but it's worried me that this squad has looked like a League 1 outfit since their injuries.

Certain managers have a ceiling. I hope this doesn't apply to DS. Time will tell.

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He seem very limited tactically which is dissappointing because that's one of the things i wanted in our next manager when Bruce left.

We play the same exact way in every game, he never changes his formation and i can't remember him changing anything tactically that has changed a game so far. Except for him bringing on Hause and Whelan when w were losing 1-0 to Wigan ending in us losing 3-0. Also very weird subs a ttimes which makes no sense. We are so predictable to play against which is dissappointing.

Hopefully he can change and turn it around, but unfortunately i think he is an average manager.

Edited by villalad21
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10 hours ago, Tomaszk said:

Did you not have it around November/December as well? It was the best football I've seen Villa play for at least 10 years. Couldn't wait to go to the next match.

It was the sort of stuff we should have been playing since we've been relegated. Football Bruce should have been playing. We'd have romped the league if we had had a decent manager in charge.

It's always missed when Bruce is praised above Lambert/McLeish/Houllier. We're in the division below!! We should have been dominating. We probably still should to be honest. The man in charge has a plan now, even if it's faltering with the various injuries and disgraceful holes left for him in the squad. I'll take that over unsustainable, dull, no-idea football.

We'd be in the Premier League now if Dean Smith was appointed June 2016.

November and December you mean what 5 games? You do realise its a 46 game season? And as I said I looked forward to all the games last season. I'd prefer to look forward to ALL the games in the season not just the small amount we've had under Smith so far. 

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8 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

November and December you mean what 5 games? You do realise its a 46 game season? And as I said I looked forward to all the games last season. I'd prefer to look forward to ALL the games in the season not just the small amount we've had under Smith so far. 

I think you missed his point.

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20 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

Surely not getting promoted was a bit of a blessing?

That's not in any way a defence of Bruce. It's a completely separate and coincidental point.

Had we got promoted I imagine we'd still be under Xia, as opposed to our new owners who by all accounts seem to be a much more competent outift.

I'm not so sure, if we had got promoted I think we would have been ok under Xia, and similarly if we are still in the Championship in a year or two's time we will be in deep financial shit even under Edens and Sawiris.  This club is too big to run outside of the Premier League for long periods of time in the FFP era really.

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7 minutes ago, Stuartc445 said:

November and December you mean what 5 games? You do realise its a 46 game season? And as I said I looked forward to all the games last season. I'd prefer to look forward to ALL the games in the season not just the small amount we've had under Smith so far. 

I don't see your point if your  going to compare the 2 managers I think you have to compare the 2 first seasons as manager  of the club and personally i think that Smith is slightly doing better than Bruce was at this stage of their aston villa tenure 

I can't understand how Bruce was given so much time yet people are starting to question Smith already 

He literally had one window and that's not  even the good one 

Let's get behind what he is doing and hopefully he brings back to where we belong

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28 minutes ago, sharkyvilla said:

I'm not so sure, if we had got promoted I think we would have been ok under Xia, and similarly if we are still in the Championship in a year or two's time we will be in deep financial shit even under Edens and Sawiris.  This club is too big to run outside of the Premier League for long periods of time in the FFP era really.

I think Xia would have killed us if brought us up. Look at Fulham they have made a mess and we needed as big as an investment with Xia having a lot less wealth as Fulham owner

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2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He seem very limited tactically which is dissappointing because that's one of the things i wanted in our next manager when Bruce left.

 

Time will tell in terms of whether he's an 'average manager', however I'm also a little bit disappointed with him tactically. I was expecting a lot more, including more variation, rather than peddling the same old and tired 4-5-1 that we had under Bruce. This formation isn't bad at all, when Grealish in the side, however without him, or at least a more creatively minded player we just look lethargic and ponderous. There's been no attempt to switch to a 3-5-2 or 4-4-2. I frankly expected a lot more innovation under Smith so far.

Edited by Dr_Pangloss
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2 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He seem very limited tactically which is dissappointing because that's one of the things i wanted in our next manager when Bruce left.

We play the same exact way in every game, he never changes his formation and i can't remember him changing anything tactically that has changed a game so far. Except for him bringing on Hause and Whelan when w were losing 1-0 to Wigan ending in us losing 3-0. Also very weird subs a ttimes which makes no sense. We are so predictable to play against which is dissappointing.

Hopefully he can change and turn it around, but unfortunately i think he is an average manager.

I have to agree with you.

Hopefully he turns it round.

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3 hours ago, villalad21 said:

He seem very limited tactically which is dissappointing because that's one of the things i wanted in our next manager when Bruce left.

We play the same exact way in every game, he never changes his formation and i can't remember him changing anything tactically that has changed a game so far. Except for him bringing on Hause and Whelan when w were losing 1-0 to Wigan ending in us losing 3-0. Also very weird subs a ttimes which makes no sense. We are so predictable to play against which is dissappointing.

Hopefully he can change and turn it around, but unfortunately i think he is an average manager.

Pretty much sums up where I am at as well.

If he does turn things around, then I'll be the first to admit I was wrong but unfortunately, looking at his record at his other clubs he looks to be a very limited manager and no amount of time will change that. 

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