Dean Smith

[nick76]

7 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

It appears you are not allowed to do that. You have to say Deano is much better. Suggesting Potter is a good manager is disrespectful to Dean as he is unquestionably the best manager who can do no wrong

Feels like the opposite that some are saying Potter is a really good manager that plays good football and has a style unlike Smith.

Seems some think Potter is being disrespected in this comparison and some think Smith is being disrespected in this comparison.  People on both sides trying to argue they are being reasonable including me but the opposite side don’t agree.

[nick76]

1 hour ago, Woody1000 said:

This is getting a bit like the Jack Grealish for England situation, it is possible to rate one without slating the others. 
In this particular case, isn’t it fair to say that both Dean and Potter are doing good jobs?

I think the problem is that it’s continuous…this season it’s comparing to Potter, last season Bielsa, the season before it was Wilder comparisons and for some,  Smith always is slightly downplayed against the latest flavour of the month in manager.  

As I’ve said before, critical analysis is always good, Smith also has his flaws but for some it’s the constant underlying disrespect that makes some of us come to Smith’s defence so often.

I like Potter but since he’s took over the results are no better, just prettier football than his predecessor and continue to just avoid relegation each season.  Could Potter do more at a bigger club? Maybe, he looks good but I just don’t see how he can be compared to Smith.  I can see the Bielsa and Wilder comparisons because we had been on similar journey’s at those points but I just don’t see what Potter has done apart from prettier football but results haven’t moved the needle and less than 24% win rate season after season.  I think he’s got more attention at the moment because of a good start but they’ve had an easy early fixture list so we’ll see if he can continue that at half way into the season.  I hope he does because he’s a local lad.

[VillanousOne]

I don't think you can directly compare Dean and Potter and our clubs, it's apple and oranges.

No dispute that Potter is a good English manager who has done well and Brighton have done well to survive and thrive at this level.

But that has no reflection on what Dean has done for this club since taking over and in no way undermines his immense achievements.

I despise Burnley's brand of hard tackling 1960s football but I think what Sean Dyche has managed to do with little investment, is far more impressive than what Potter has done even if I respect both managers.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Which one of you is this?

[useless]

6 hours ago, useless said:

Just because Potter has been linked to bigger clubs by the clickbait media that doesn't mean to say that he was ever in serious contention for those jobs, if Spurs were serious about wanting him for example he'd be their manager now. Smith is already managing at a club bigger than any club that Potter is likely to manage.

Allow me to apply the finishing touch to this  point ... The reason Smith might not get linked to the 'top jobs' in the same way that Potter does, presuming by 'top jobs' people mean the Tottenham job, then that might have something to do  with the possibility that the media knows the idea of Smith leaving Villa of his own accord to go and manage at Spurs, a  is a lot less likely and believable than Potter leaving Brighton to manage Spurs.

Edited October 15, 2021 by useless

[Tommo_b]

26 minutes ago, useless said:

Allow me to apply the finishing touch to this  point ... The reason Smith might not get linked to the 'top jobs' in the same way that Potter does, presuming by 'top jobs' people mean the Tottenham job, then that might have something to do  with the possibility that the media knows the idea of Smith leaving Villa of his own accord to go and manage at Spurs, a  is a lot less likely and believable than Potter leaving Brighton to manage Spurts.

That said… and whilst I 100% agree with your post… it is also what I thought about Grealish, I was adamant he would never choose to leave Villa, oh how foolish of me. 

Edited October 15, 2021 by Tommo_b

[useless]

Golden Grealicious Jack leaving us to join Man City was a lot more likely and believable than Smith leaving us to join Tottenham Hotspurs. If Man City were to offer their managerial job to Smith then I'm sure he'd very much tempted by the possibility, but him leaving us to manage someone like Spurs I couldn't see happening, and not just because he's a Villa fan.

Edited October 15, 2021 by useless

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, Tommo_b said:

That said… and whilst I 100% agree with your post… it is also what I thought about Grealish, I was adamant he would never choose to leave Villa, oh how foolish of me. 

Maybe but its Tottenham, if was United or Liverpool I be more worried but not Spurs. He would get more backing here than from that chairman who would have no problem sacking him 

[Peter Griffin]

2 hours ago, useless said:

Golden Grealicious Jack leaving us to join Man City was a lot more likely and believable than Smith leaving us to join Tottenham Hotspurs. If Man City were to offer their managerial job to Smith then I'm sure he'd very much tempted by the possibility, but him leaving us to manage someone like Spurs I couldn't see happening, and not just because he's a Villa fan.

I would say DS is still at a position in life where he would like to make some very serious money. He is 'only' on about 1.5m a year, so about 800k a year net. he has only had this level of salary for the last few years too. It is nice money, but if it was me I would want a little more than that in the bank to be able to look after family and have an exceptionally comfortable retirement. If Spurs offered him 10m a year and a 4 year contract I think would be mad not to take it unless Purslow gave him a major pay rise

[VillanousOne]

2 minutes ago, Peter Griffin said:

I would say DS is still at a position in life where he would like to make some very serious money. He is 'only' on about 1.5m a year, so about 800k a year net. he has only had this level of salary for the last few years too. It is nice money, but if it was me I would want a little more than that in the bank to be able to look after family and have an exceptionally comfortable retirement. If Spurs offered him 10m a year and a 4 year contract I think would be mad not to take it unless Purslow gave him a major pay rise

maybe you should offer to be Dean's financial advisor, tell him how many millions he should be earning and saving for that island he has his eye on buying for the wife

[Peter Griffin]

49 minutes ago, VillanousOne said:

maybe you should offer to be Dean's financial advisor, tell him how many millions he should be earning and saving for that island he has his eye on buying for the wife

Good idea, I could also give him a few tips on formation and team selection while I am at it

[VillaFaninLondon]

8 hours ago, nick76 said:

Brighton were already a PL team whereas Smith had dragged us up from bottom half of the Championship into the playoffs and promoted and then had to rebuild and settle almost a new squad in the PL.  its  light and day that position two years ago.  

Also Smith won 9 league games.  

Brighton under previous management won 9 league games per season for two years and then Potter came and he’s won 9 league games per season for two seasons…he’s not improved them.

Smith won 9 games and then 16 games…massive increase!

You’re kidding right? We finished 6 points behind them and then 14 points above them the following season.  We flipped 20 points while they stayed the same.  If you don’t think beating them by 14 points is huge, that’s crazy.

In your opinion and you stated above you only watched them occasionally and I disagree with your view about Villa.  We were playing some beautiful football first half of last season, we hit a dark patch 2nd half I agree but many mitigating factors for that and also some not mitigating factors but your overall assessment I can’t agree with.

Yeah but over five years the outlay is only 50m less.  Yes Potter wasn’t there for over half of that but they already had an established PL team we were playing catch up to actually build a team, we had very few players when we were promoted.  I think that’s an unfair comparison.

So Brighton should be relegated each season because on 41 points, if they are above where you think they should be means they should relegated.

Fair enough if that’s your opinion, I honestly don’t see it and obviously don’t agree.  I don’t think it’s even close, Smith is a much better coach and tactician.

I agree we did improve massively last season and should have finished higher IMO, so maybe my point about only being a few places higher than them last season was harsh. But I also felt Brighton massively underachieved last season given how they played and should have been midtable at least rather than 16th. 

 

My mistake we did win 9 games the season before, you are right. Still not very good. 

 

I'm not saying we are a long ball team at all, but we have never been great at retaining the ball under Smith and I've noticed this season due to having the set piece coach perhaps that we are trying to score more from the long throw and corners. Like against Spurs in our last game we kept trying to throw the ball into the box at every opportunity rather than work the ball in, when we actually tried to play football second half we looked better and scored a goal through it. We were the same against Everton until Bailey came on (and then our football was really good) but to be fair to Smith I don't think our injuries have helped. It will be interesting to see how we play with a fully fit team. 

 

And I was referring to Brighton this season not last season. They are above where I'd expect them to be. I don't think they'll stay there because Potter can';t work miracles, but for them to be where they are and playing the dominant football they do with the players they have is impressive. 

[KMitch]

5 hours ago, nick76 said:

I think the problem is that it’s continuous…this season it’s comparing to Potter, last season Bielsa, the season before it was Wilder comparisons and for some,  Smith always is slightly downplayed against the latest flavour of the month in manager.  

As I’ve said before, critical analysis is always good, Smith also has his flaws but for some it’s the constant underlying disrespect that makes some of us come to Smith’s defence so often.

I like Potter but since he’s took over the results are no better, just prettier football than his predecessor and continue to just avoid relegation each season.  Could Potter do more at a bigger club? Maybe, he looks good but I just don’t see how he can be compared to Smith.  I can see the Bielsa and Wilder comparisons because we had been on similar journey’s at those points but I just don’t see what Potter has done apart from prettier football but results haven’t moved the needle and less than 24% win rate season after season.  I think he’s got more attention at the moment because of a good start but they’ve had an easy early fixture list so we’ll see if he can continue that at half way into the season.  I hope he does because he’s a local lad.

You hit the nail on the head here.  

[nick76]

29 minutes ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I agree we did improve massively last season and should have finished higher IMO, so maybe my point about only being a few places higher than them last season was harsh. But I also felt Brighton massively underachieved last season given how they played and should have been midtable at least rather than 16th. 

 

My mistake we did win 9 games the season before, you are right. Still not very good. 

 

I'm not saying we are a long ball team at all, but we have never been great at retaining the ball under Smith and I've noticed this season due to having the set piece coach perhaps that we are trying to score more from the long throw and corners. Like against Spurs in our last game we kept trying to throw the ball into the box at every opportunity rather than work the ball in, when we actually tried to play football second half we looked better and scored a goal through it. We were the same against Everton until Bailey came on (and then our football was really good) but to be fair to Smith I don't think our injuries have helped. It will be interesting to see how we play with a fully fit team. 

 

And I was referring to Brighton this season not last season. They are above where I'd expect them to be. I don't think they'll stay there because Potter can';t work miracles, but for them to be where they are and playing the dominant football they do with the players they have is impressive. 

I guess overall we’ll have to agree to disagree because we don’t agree on individual assessments or some of the points both have made.

[TRO]

11 hours ago, VillaFaninLondon said:

I think that's pure bias towards Smith if I'm being honest. Saying he's a much better manager than Potter because Potter only won 9 games in the past 2 seasons, Smith only won 7 games in his first season with us in the Prem! 

And also the league positions, Brighton finished 15th and 16th, we finished 17th and 11th under Smith in the same seasons, so a couple of places below them and then a few places above them. You could say Potter took over a PL team, fine - but they weren't established. They nearly got relegated twice under Hughton.

Brighton also finished in those positions playing front foot football against every team (including Man City, Liverpool etc) and outplaying a lot of good teams in that time but maybe not getting the results. Whereas we have played with no consistent style in that time and have reverted to very direct, even long ball at times to get results. 

Smith has also spent a lot more. In the same period, Smith has spent £350m roughly (and also got £100m back for Grealish), Potter has spent roughly £100m in the same period so a lot less. That's why I think we're where I'd expect us to be as a minimum with the squad we have - whereas Brighton are above where I think they should be despite having some decent players. 

 

I would say as a coach and tactician Potter is the much better manager and that's why he's being linked with the top jobs. But I'll probably get a load of stick for saying that.

its not a case of getting stick, its your opinion, so you shouldn't.

But how can it be measured...its just someones perception.

just an interesting comparison of 2 managers at their respective clubs, but contrasting perceptions, but the numbers don't back it up.

Steve Bruce 96 games....29.2 win ratio.

Graham Potter 94 games 29.8 win ratio.

and yet the perception of the 2 managers is colossal in difference.

[ciggiesnbeer]

There maybe better managers than Dean Smith I have no idea. But there is none better I would like managing our club. I am enjoying the ride, I want to see where Dean takes us next.

I love to watch us play, we are in no relegation danger anymore , we have very good players across the squad and very strong academy.  Thats what I have been asking for for years. My cup runneth over.

[villalad21]

54 minutes ago, TRO said:

its not a case of getting stick, its your opinion, so you shouldn't.

But how can it be measured...its just someones perception.

just an interesting comparison of 2 managers at their respective clubs, but contrasting perceptions, but the numbers don't back it up.

Steve Bruce 96 games....29.2 win ratio.

Graham Potter 94 games 29.8 win ratio.

and yet the perception of the 2 managers is colossal in difference.

That's a very black and white way of looking at it. Lots of variables in those numbers when you look into them.

Quite funny seeing where the respective clubs currently are on the table. It's more of a true reflection on how the teams has statistically performed over the last 2 seasons.

[villa4europe]

6 minutes ago, ciggiesnbeer said:

There maybe better managers than Dean Smith I have no idea. But there is none better I would like managing our club. I am enjoying the ride, I want to see where Dean takes us next.

I love to watch us play, we are in no relegation danger anymore , we have very good players across the squad and very strong academy.  Thats what I have been asking for for years. My cup runneth over.

Yeah and me

I just like the guy, I want him to succeed here 

No guarantees in football, smith seems to work with what we're trying to do as a team, the next guy no matter how he looks on paper might not, got no problem with patience and riding it out with deano 

[TRO]

8 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

That's a very black and white way of looking at it. Lots of variables in those numbers when you look into them.

Quite funny seeing where the respective clubs currently are on the table. It's more of a true reflection on how the teams has statistically performed over the last 2 seasons.

That may be so, but anything other than that, would be selecting a period to prove a point.

Its what they have done as a whole, is what matters.

i.e .....you can't win 10 games on the trot and start looking at win ratio's.....they are designed to evaluate the warts 'n all.

[tomav84]

4 hours ago, Peter Griffin said:

I would say DS is still at a position in life where he would like to make some very serious money. He is 'only' on about 1.5m a year, so about 800k a year net. he has only had this level of salary for the last few years too. It is nice money, but if it was me I would want a little more than that in the bank to be able to look after family and have an exceptionally comfortable retirement. If Spurs offered him 10m a year and a 4 year contract I think would be mad not to take it unless Purslow gave him a major pay rise

no way is deano only on 28k a week.