Dean Smith

[sne]

From F365. Agree a lot with it tbh.

I guess you can use it as a reason to keep Smith but also as an explanation to why you'd want Smith replaced. For me, even with the underlying reasons behind it I'd look at this as why I feel Smith has at least partly failed this season, and why I'd like us to go for another manager should we stay up.

Quote

Ralph Hasenhuttl
A good manager raises the standards of a select few players who have already shown obvious ability.

A great manager improves one area of the team through meticulous tactical planning and draws performances out of those less talented.

An excellent manager imprints his entire philosophy on every player regardless of skill level, age and position, enhancing both defence and attack.

A special manager accomplishes all of the above with what he is given rather than what he has signed.

It makes an absolute mockery of the profession of coaching when someone is given a free pass because of the squad they have inherited. An artist should embrace the challenge of creating a masterpiece with crayons and a manager should be no different.

Ralph Hasenhuttl has utilised the transfer market to give himself better tools and materials, but he has never relied heavily upon it. As much of a revelation as Danny Ings has been, as sublime as Che Adams’ winner against Manchester City was and as high as Kyle Walker-Peters showed his ceiling to be (to the frustration of Raheem Sterling), the performances of Jack Stephens, Stuart Armstrong and Jan Bednarek felt more instructive.

These were players discarded or overlooked by different managers, picked up, dusted off and refined by a coach that saw something in them to develop.

Walker-Peters might be the most interesting case, a player ignored and marginalised by Mauricio Pochettino and Jose Mourinho excelling in a position his parent club need to improve. Southampton have shown they can make a feast from scraps; Tottenham are throwing in-date food in the bin.

The north London club will not be the only ones looking enviously at what an actual coach can do instead of pointing fingers of blame in every direction other than at himself. Southampton afforded him time and patience after that Leicester defeat in October but Hasenhuttl earned that trust.

https://www.football365.com/news/premier-league-winners-losers-hasenhuttl-greenwood-hodgson

All clubs are different, can't compare and yada, yada, yada...

[Davkaus]

I agree. I think the most damning thing about Smith is how backwards some players have gone over the course of this season. I'm not sure whether that's tactics, fitness, or simply a loss of confidence.

It was always going to be a tough season, but I don't think we're getting the best out of this squad.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Davkaus

[PieFacE]

I change my mind daily on whether our issues stem from Smith, or purely the squad he has to work with. Probably a bit of both I guess in reality. 

Edited July 6, 2020 by PieFacE

[Johnnyp]

1 hour ago, Sam-AVFC said:

Quality. Proper rib cracker that one. 

I've criticised him plenty and there's plenty there to do it with which is why some of the reaching is laughable. 

I just find it hilarious you think you can objectively judge he's had the exact right amount of criticism and praise. 

Try not to be so defensive and making everything 'hurr hurr you're his boyfriend'. 

Of course you can't quantify the exact amount of criticism and praise he has taken. I meant it figuratively, i didn't think we were playing a numbers and percentages game here. I'm not neccesarily worried about the spend ( 150 million for 12 players is pretty tame anyway by PL standards ) and not naive enough to think just because we are Villa we have a right to come up and boss it. We don't. My eyes don't deceive me though, and others here have said the same. Positionally we are poor. Tactically very naive. We switch off constantly. No 2 players on the team look on the same wave length. This has to fall on the managers doorstep. Yes, we don't have the best group ( signings arguably worse than the relegation year but we have the benefit of hindsight with where those players are at now ) I just feel a better manager would get more out of this group. Are Southampton, player for player, miles ahead of us ? I'd argue not. As a team though, us and them are night and day right now. One's extremely well coached. The other......

[foreveryoung]

Hardly anyone is being personal towards Smith, I just want to make that clear. In all my comments I have never been personal, I respect for what he is trying to achieve and love him as a true Villa man. Though what I will have to say, is his first season in the Premier league should be classed (especially if we go down) as unacceptable by the board and most of the fans. We spent £100+ million, not to struggle our knackers off, but to give Smith a good start. No one expected miracles this season, not even us fans, but what we did expect was good football and a few of the signings to come good under Smith, who was signed for his, apparently excellent coaching abilities.

So where are we now? Well, Smith has failed to improve any of the signings, the football has gone from entertaining to, "i'm scared to lose" football. We still can't take a corner or most of the time, even a throw in, an the team continue, even while fighting for relegation, to be very poor. We can blame the players as most are, but I think some evidence is 80% of the time, Smith can't even get the best out of Jack, so I can't really see how he can really get the best out of anyone.  It is not a drilled team at all, we are lacking the mentality to fight, to chase, to win. This is not down to poor players, (although i'm not saying they are great) this is down to a weak, inexperienced manager, who has basically run out of ideas and has gone as far as he can go, that he still has Grealish as captain speaks volumes. If we go down and he stays, expect a few seasons in the Championship, cause there is not a chance is hell he will get us up first season, not a chance!!

 

 

[hippo]

24 minutes ago, foreveryoung said:

Hardly anyone is being personal towards Smith, I just want to make that clear. In all my comments I have never been personal, I respect for what he is trying to achieve and love him as a true Villa man. Though what I will have to say, is his first season in the Premier league should be classed (especially if we go down) as unacceptable by the board and most of the fans. We spent £100+ million, not to struggle our knackers off, but to give Smith a good start. No one expected miracles this season, not even us fans, but what we did expect was good football and a few of the signings to come good under Smith, who was signed for his, apparently excellent coaching abilities.

So where are we now? Well, Smith has failed to improve any of the signings, the football has gone from entertaining to, "i'm scared to lose" football. We still can't take a corner or most of the time, even a throw in, an the team continue, even while fighting for relegation, to be very poor. We can blame the players as most are, but I think some evidence is 80% of the time, Smith can't even get the best out of Jack, so I can't really see how he can really get the best out of anyone.  It is not a drilled team at all, we are lacking the mentality to fight, to chase, to win. This is not down to poor players, (although i'm not saying they are great) this is down to a weak, inexperienced manager, who has basically run out of ideas and has gone as far as he can go, that he still has Grealish as captain speaks volumes. If we go down and he stays, expect a few seasons in the Championship, cause there is not a chance is hell he will get us up first season, not a chance!!

 

 

Not many managers with 1 win since January - and a probable relegation do survive to start the next season.

I understand that Farke at Norwich has such assurances. The position on Smith is less clear . Even John Percy has said that he has only got assurances until the end of the season.

I think he's toast myself.

[useless]

Currently we haven't won in nine games, if we go down then it will probably be because between now and the end of the season we win no more than one more game, if that were to happen it will have meant that we would have won just one of the last fourteen games of the season, no way Smith would survive that, even if we win two more games between now and the end of the season that will still be a woeful run of forms we've been on and will probably still cost Smith his job, especially if it's not enough to keep us up.

[mykeyb]

Is it harsh to say we are 30 odd games into the season with a big break and it appears that Smith not only doesn't know his best 11 but also doesn't know the best formation to get the most out of his players.

And some people want him in charge next season in the Championship?

[Johnnyp]

9 minutes ago, hippo said:

Not many managers with 1 win since January - and a probable relegation do survive to start the next season.

I understand that Farke at Norwich has such assurances. The position on Smith is less clear . Even John Percy has said that he has only got assurances until the end of the season.

I think he's toast myself.

I agree. You definetely don't get the sack vibe around farke and howe as much as you do Smith. Norwich spent pittance, i do think however they got a little bit carried away with the plaudits they were getting last season with the football they played and people saying they'd take to this league easily. They had all day on the ball against inferior players last season. They don't play high tempo. As for Howe, he has credit in the bank surely. 5 years he kept them in the league ( not relegated yet ) You get the vibe though that Smith's job isn't safe.

[hippo]

16 minutes ago, Johnnyp said:

I agree. You definetely don't get the sack vibe around farke and howe as much as you do Smith. Norwich spent pittance, i do think however they got a little bit carried away with the plaudits they were getting last season with the football they played and people saying they'd take to this league easily. They had all day on the ball against inferior players last season. They don't play high tempo. As for Howe, he has credit in the bank surely. 5 years he kept them in the league ( not relegated yet ) You get the vibe though that Smith's job isn't safe.

Yes if you distance yourself from the fact it's the club you support - the default stance is that relegation usually gets the manager the sack  - there's the odd exception - but that's the probable outcome - if we get radio silence after relegation is confirmed you know what's coming.

[Dave-R]

1 hour ago, mykeyb said:

Is it harsh to say we are 30 odd games into the season with a big break and it appears that Smith not only doesn't know his best 11 but also doesn't know the best formation to get the most out of his players.

And some people want him in charge next season in the Championship?

Well said, we really should of brought someone much better in as soon as we started the season, many knew then he wouldnt be able to do the job for whatever the reason, we all just chose to chance it, it failed.

At most Smith and Co were given the chance as a group to get the best out of these players, was always a tall order asking for them to compete against some of the best in the world. At most we should of got someone in from the moment there was a break from this Corona, they would of had the time.

People on here say but no one better would of came, I disagree, imagine what that would of done for the coach/manager who kept us up with these inexperienced players. I seriously wonder what Smith, JT and the other coaches were paid for all this, I bet we could of brought someone seriously good at survival challenges with abit extra for all weve paid all this guys to coach our lads. Then theres the scouts wonder how much they have cost the club, whatever it was it was not worth it and could of better spent the money towards someone who could of signed his own players without the need for fans to wonder who signed who. Yes I dont like this way of having all these people in charge of signings, hasn't benefited us one bit, it seems like there are to many bodys involved in transfers and it has done us more harm than good.

All we will have from this season to show for it is player sales because of relegation which will be a recoup on what weve already spent this season anyway which was a fortune.You know it wouldnt of bothered me one bit if we had something to show from our signings but the only ones I see worth the trouble are Mings and Luiz, out of how many signings a good fourteen plus?? That's very bad having that many bad apples pop up. The fact we now have to sell Grealish, Mings, Luiz, McGinn and all the crap that is in the team with them, I would not want them at Villa. Those players just couldn't show there worth, 27 points out of 30+ games, if we get relegated it will be there own doing and they deserve no more top flight football or to be in a villa shirt. We supported them throughout this season laid our faith in them and for what, a trip back down to where we came from, do these players not have any pride or heart to go get us some results to maintain premier status. Relegation happens I will not be sorry to see many of them leave and hope we learn from this and build a squad that will fight for points and show how talented they are.

Build from the championship and see what loans we can get from the premier, start again and learn to play football properly, dont cheap it out by buying from abroad if the scouting is not done properly just dont go there. And for the love of god fetch someone in who can Coach better and make better tactical decisions. Build a subs bench of players that can change bloody games, it's one thing to have a first eleven but you also need game changers at your disposal which has hindered us massively this season. Use Youth and use the championship to start blooding them for a fight in the premier, I expect to see our Youth used it has to be better for them and they must have a way into the squad because Smith has kept them down since hes arrived and he said they would get far chance, that has not happened.

Edited July 6, 2020 by Dave-R

[Zatman]

1 hour ago, hippo said:

Not many managers with 1 win since January - and a probable relegation do survive to start the next season.

I understand that Farke at Norwich has such assurances. The position on Smith is less clear . Even John Percy has said that he has only got assurances until the end of the season.

I think he's toast myself.

Nigel Pearson be probably getting worried as well if thats the case  

[hippo]

4 minutes ago, Zatman said:

Nigel Pearson be probably getting worried as well if thats the case  

If they go down I would have thought he is 100% to get the boot - the owners at Watford don't mess about.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, useless said:

Currently we haven't won in nine games, if we go down then it will probably be because between now and the end of the season we win no more than one more game, if that were to happen it will have meant that we would have won just one of the last fourteen games of the season, no way Smith would survive that, even if we win two more games between now and the end of the season that will still be a woeful run of forms we've been on and will probably still cost Smith his job, especially if it's not enough to keep us up.

We've got an emergency loan keeper in goal. A January panic signing and a kid, who played non league a few years ago, as our forwards. 

We're also playing back up players across our defence. And have 2 wingers who have shown they aren't premier league quality.

Why do people think this squad should be winning games? 

It still amazes me what it's based on. Especially with some of injury issues.

[lexicon]

3 hours ago, Davkaus said:

I agree. I think the most damning thing about Smith is how backwards some players have gone over the course of this season. I'm not sure whether that's tactics, fitness, or simply a loss of confidence.

It was always going to be a tough season, but I don't think we're getting the best out of this squad.

Which ones have gone backwards, would you say? 

Hardly any of them had any premier league experience, so we're seeing what they can do at this level for the first time. 

[Davkaus]

Just now, lexicon said:

Which ones have gone backwards, would you say? 

Hardly any of them had any premier league experience, so we're seeing what they can do at this level for the first time. 

I think the two that concern me most are two I considered to be our two best players. I think McGinn looked much better 6-7 games in. Even before his injury he'd dropped off significantly, looks like a fitness issue to me. Grealish looks like a shadow of himself since the restart. Head turned, or just fed up of the general incompetence of the team? Who knows.

I'm much the same as @PieFacE. Sometimes I think "well they're not great, but surely he can get more out of them", and sometimes I look at them and think "Trezeguet. Nakamba. Hause. In the Premier **** League, are you kidding me?".

I can't really decide where the blame lies. We looked a hell of a lot livelier in the first few games of the season, and I can't decide if it's the players initially were really fired up and have dropped off, or if they're just not good enough. 

[useless]

It's easy to twist the description of players to put them in a negative light, in an attempt to try and justify our bad form, but it doesn't really paint an accurate picture, and we all know in our heart of hearts that we should be doing better than having no wins in the last nine games. If say we win one game between now and the end of the season meaning we will have only won of the last fourteen games, the owners aren't going to stand for that, he will be gone, whether people like it or not or whatever excuses are made.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, useless said:

It's easy to twist the description of players to put them in a negative light, in an attempt to try and justify our bad form, but it doesn't really paint an accurate picture, and we all know in our heart of hearts that we should be doing better than having no wins in the last nine games. If say we win one game between now and the end of the season meaning we will have only won of the last fourteen games, the owners aren't going to stand for that, he will be gone, whether people like it or not or whatever excuses are made.

So negative is twisting it but saying we know in our hearts is a reasonable response.

That doesn't make sense. 

 

[lexicon]

1 minute ago, Davkaus said:

I think the two that concern me most are two I considered to be our two best players. I think McGinn looked much better 6-7 games in. Even before his injury he'd dropped off significantly, looks like a fitness issue to me. Grealish looks like a shadow of himself since the restart. Head turned, or just fed up of the general incompetence of the team? Who knows.

I'm much the same as @PieFacE. Sometimes I think "well they're not great, but surely he can get more out of them", and sometimes I look at them and think "Trezeguet. Nakamba. Hause. In the Premier **** League, are you kidding me?".

I can't really decide where the blame lies. We looked a hell of a lot livelier in the first few games of the season, and I can't decide if it's the players initially were really fired up and have dropped off, or if they're just not good enough. 

McGinn hasn't showed that he's up to it at this level, yet. He did look better against Liverpool mind, but he was out for a long time and he's had a disrupted season. 

With Grealish, he's not been up to scratch, but he's played so well for Smith in plenty of games, so it's not like Smith can't get the best out of him.

I'm reluctant to blame Smith for the performance levels of those two tbf. 

I'm definitely inclined to believe that the players we have aren't good enough. We've tightened up a lot at the back and are looking more organised defensively now, but our attacking players just seem to mess it up constantly. 

[Sam-AVFC]

2 hours ago, Johnnyp said:

Of course you can't quantify the exact amount of criticism and praise he has taken. I meant it figuratively, i didn't think we were playing a numbers and percentages game here.

I know you can't which is why I found it such an odd comment to make that he's had the "correct amount" of attention.

The fact you followed it up with a 'homo' joke because I dared to say something in here that wasn't tearing him apart. Lovely touch. You'll notice I wasn't even coming out in support of him.