Dean Smith

[TRO]

5 minutes ago, Tomaszk said:

Ability to do what? Finish top 10? 15th?

Did you see a change in style last year from Bruce to Smith? I'd put that down to coaching.

I think it's a fair assumption that coaching has continued with these players.

But this time we're playing Liverpool and Man Utd, not Blackburn and Nottingham Forest.

Putting it all on Smith is wrong.

Who then? Doris the tea lady.

so if he gets called to a meeting at the end of the season and says " don't put it all on me" " thats wrong" i read it on VT, even they know its not just me.

that should go down well.

Edited July 6, 2020 by TRO

[hippo]

45 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

- What the club say in public and think in private may be two different things. If you sincerely believed 14th would be our finishing position I can understand your disappointment - I just hoped for survival this season and it has gone pretty much as I expected

- It’s NOT the manager who governs football matters. The CEO sets the strategy (buy young, wages structures, no loanees etc etc), the DofF manages the scouting network and player acquisition. The manager is in the mix, he is responsible for tactics, coaching but  also but works in the structure.

- I won’t list the mistakes Smith has made as their are plenty of people ready to point them out. My opinion is that he will have learnt from many of those mistakes and it would be foolish to throw that learning away and start again with a new manager who has to learn for himself from scratch - UNLESS we are going to bring in a manager who is clearly of a top level which I doubt is in the plans

- I think if we stay up we will sign a different type of player in the close season - a couple of Cahill-type signings would have made all the difference. Drinkwater was a gamble that didn’t come off but that type of signing is what was missing this year

- If we go down and lose two or three I think we could recruit for the Championship but with an eye on the PL

I’m of the opinion that our problems were , a “bad” squad built by Bruce, an unexpected promotion and too many ‘projects’ and not enough experience in the transfer window

If we keep changing managers every 18 months it will breed the short term attitude that resulted in the Bruce squad - signIng loanees and almost-over-the-hill one season wonders, rinse and repeat

Many may not agree but I want somebody to be given the chance of building something over a longer period - Smith knows the club, did great last season, will have learnt a lot this season and despite difficulties seems to still have the players on his side

Come on TRO, come over from the dark side!!

Is Smith Learning though ? 

He seems to have gone a similar route to Lambert - very defensive at the expense of the attacking football he was in part, hired for.

So for every ounce of experience gained - is he loosing a couple in confidence ? 

[VillaCas]

8 minutes ago, TRO said:

He has been with us for 18 months, you cannot realistically, keep citing Steve bruce, he is in his second club since he has gone and done ok with both......Drop the Steve Bruce cop out..."a bad workman blames his tools"

You’re just plain wrong on this one TRO.

If you don’t think that the squad Smith inherited is not the main catalyst for our issues you’ve not been paying attention

18 (!!?!!?!) of them had to be released that lead to 15 new players being recruited. The recruitment was poorly done.

Do you honestly think that if Bruce had built a more balanced squad, perhaps a bit younger that only needed 4 or 5 quality additions for the PL we wouldn’t be in a much better position

Steve Bruces Squad is 100% the catalyst for our issues today

[nick76]

4 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

You’re just plain wrong on this one TRO.

If you don’t think that the squad Smith inherited is not the main catalyst for our issues you’ve not been paying attention

18 (!!?!!?!) of them had to be released that lead to 15 new players being recruited. The recruitment was poorly done.

Do you honestly think that if Bruce had built a more balanced squad, perhaps a bit younger that only needed 4 or 5 quality additions for the PL we wouldn’t be in a much better position

Steve Bruces Squad is 100% the catalyst for our issues today

Completely agree!  They are many things we can criticise the current people at the club but Bruce started this.....

[hippo]

Nobody has said we need a progressive manager for ages !

[briny_ear]

So let’s just see if I’ve got this?

Steve Bruce was responsible for the make up of the squad when he was manager.

But Dean Smith Is not responsible for the make up of the squad now he is manager.

OK, fine.

Edited July 6, 2020 by briny_ear

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

You’re just plain wrong on this one TRO.

If you don’t think that the squad Smith inherited is not the main catalyst for our issues you’ve not been paying attention

18 (!!?!!?!) of them had to be released that lead to 15 new players being recruited. The recruitment was poorly done.

Do you honestly think that if Bruce had built a more balanced squad, perhaps a bit younger that only needed 4 or 5 quality additions for the PL we wouldn’t be in a much better position

Steve Bruces Squad is 100% the catalyst for our issues today

I just don't see it like you, in fact he too had a mess to sort out too.

I just disagree in principal.....i have wrote about this umpteen times....The club went down a route, that nearly worked, because it didn't and everything was on it, Armageddon arrived, no wonder he left holes in the team, we couldn't pay the tax bill, never mind sign players....i am now glad we didn't, beat Fulham...hindsight is wonderful, I'll bet Fulham would have wished they had lost now.

We loaned too many players, sure, if we had the money, we would have bought them...all the mitigation for Smith and non for Bruce and folk have the temerity to accuse me of that.

Look, I am tired of this monologue, i stated my view so many times, folk are bored with it.....I just don't see it your way, sorry.

[TRO]

10 minutes ago, nick76 said:

Completely agree!  They are many things we can criticise the current people at the club but Bruce started this.....

No he didn't Martin O'Neill did....and it hasn't been right since.

Bruce inherited shit too....and like them all created a bit himself.

[QldVilla]

It’s not as simple as someone taking responsibility, it’s far more complex.

The club was not ready to be promoted to the PL, and previous regimes can take responsibility for no plan or vision for the club. Therefore being promoted was a double edge sword, keep an ageing squad with experience or start again, so far it’s a 50/50 call whether we will stay up. But experience has depth has shown to be a huge issue with this club, as well as long term injuries to key players.

We went into a PL season with an inexperienced PL squad and manager.

Yes there should be some questions around Smiths aptitude for the PL, but the glaring issue is the club wasn’t ready for promotion and that is down to previous regimes.

[Demitri_C]

57 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

Garbage 

Designed to generate calls

Every goal that ever goes in can be unpicked like this

Mings doesn’t lack guts

Taylor isn’t better than Targett

Heaton is our best goalie - Nyland is crap and Reina is a pale shadow but did ok yesterday

Plenty of games where we were crap but yesterday wasn’t one. We worked very hard all game against a team that had better players in every position 

 

We were ok to average. Liverpool were no where near their best yet we struggled to dk absolutely anythjng.

And he was right about the goals you cabt argue that. Mings and hause were a complete mess.

Taylor was motm yesterday 

[VillaCas]

2 minutes ago, TRO said:

Bruce inherited shit too....and like them all created a bit himself.

I don’t doubt he did, but it is clear to see that we were woefully unprepared for the PL and that the signings we made haven’t worked out

If those signings were down to Smith then he should go but it seems clear to me that the real failures Wesley, Trez, Nakamba, Samatta are Suso signings

The worst thing that happened to DS was winning the playoff final. Had we lost we would be currently riding high in the Championship and Smith would be being lauded

[penguin]

As all with almost arguments/debates, especially on the internet, everything has gone very binary.

Dean Smith is not completely at fault for our position, there are obviously mitigating factors.

What I do believe is he has to shoulder a decent portion of the blame. We have showed enough promise (especially early in the season; which makes it worse as you'd have thought we'd kick on once the players gelled and got used to the tactics) to suggest we are capable of more than we are seeing. The amount of points dropped from winning positions says it all. Do we even know our best formation. Our best 11? 

Make as many excuses as you want but we spent 100m+ in the summer we aren't an huddlesfield-esque underdog story, 2 points from the last 27 when we are fighting for our lives is unforgivable. 

[villalad21]

4 minutes ago, QldVilla said:

It’s not as simple as someone taking responsibility, it’s far more complex.

The club was not ready to be promoted to the PL, and previous regimes can take responsibility for no plan or vision for the club. Therefore being promoted was a double edge sword, keep an ageing squad with experience or start again, so far it’s a 50/50 call whether we will stay up. But experience has depth has shown to be a huge issue with this club, as well as long term injuries to key players.

We went into a PL season with an inexperienced PL squad and manager.

Yes there should be some questions around Smiths aptitude for the PL, but the glaring issue is the club wasn’t ready for promotion and that is down to previous regimes.

Inexperienced or not. That's not a valid excuse for not turning up every week or not being able to defend  corners.

[QldVilla]

4 minutes ago, villalad21 said:

Inexperienced or not. That's not a valid excuse for not turning up every week or not being able to defend  corners.

It’s not about excuses, it’s about the psychology of sport, the speed of the competition, the games played at that level, the ability to rest players to they recover physically and psychologically so they can play at a high level.

They are key ingredients in elite sport, it’s not a Sunday morning kick around.

[Farlz]

Adrian Durham is a bellend 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I don’t doubt he did, but it is clear to see that we were woefully unprepared for the PL and that the signings we made haven’t worked out

If those signings were down to Smith then he should go but it seems clear to me that the real failures Wesley, Trez, Nakamba, Samatta are Suso signings

The worst thing that happened to DS was winning the playoff final. Had we lost we would be currently riding high in the Championship and Smith would be being lauded

Are you aware that samatta has only just joined the bomb squad.....a few months back he was our shining light?....such is the deterioration in players form.

These players are getting worse VC can't you see that....only since lockdown Luiz has shown signs of the player we thought we had bought.

We don't know enough of what happens behind the scenes to apportion the blame fairly......but in all instances like presiding over this many defeats, the manager has to take responsibility, it might not be all his fault, I'm sure he will have the opportunity to state his case at the seasons end and depending on its credibility, he will stay or go....only they know the truth, lets hope though he is not a scapegoat, though.

We just simply cannot go on losing at the rate we are, in any league.....I just hope the club make the right decision.

[VillaCas]

3 minutes ago, TRO said:

These players are getting worse VC can't you see that....only since lockdown Luiz has shown signs of the player we thought we had bought.

So Luiz is getting better? But that can’t be down to Smith can it?

seriously though TRO if Smith goes at the end of the season then fair enough. If he doesn’t those “behind the scenes” will have seen something that other’s haven’t 

Edited July 6, 2020 by VillaCas

[Tomaszk]

14 minutes ago, TRO said:

Who then? Doris the tea lady.

so if he gets called to a meeting at the end of the season and says " don't put it all on me" " thats wrong" i read it on VT, even they know its not just me.

that should go down well.

What a changed man you are from Bruce to Smith. Wonder which column the next manager will be in. I hope for his sake he's in Brucie's column.

Who shares blame? Suso! As I've said a billion times.

The players are not good enough. They are not of the quality we needed. They were too expensive. That was his job.

Suso takes a big fat juicy portion of the blame along with Smith. He signed all the players TRO. Smith was busy coaching us to promotion so didn't have time to scout 10-15 players we needed. IMO the job this season was made unbelievably difficult by his incompetence.

In places, I'm seeing very little balance. It's just tantrums wanting Smith out applying no context.

The reason I say tantrums is because people are saying obviously incorrect stuff like we've bottled every lead we've had and Smith would purposely lose games if he thought it would keep him a job. Nincompoopery of the highest order.

[PaulC]

Yes the buck always stops with the manager. 

[TRO]

14 minutes ago, VillaCas said:

I don’t doubt he did, but it is clear to see that we were woefully unprepared for the PL and that the signings we made haven’t worked out

If those signings were down to Smith then he should go but it seems clear to me that the real failures Wesley, Trez, Nakamba, Samatta are Suso signings

The worst thing that happened to DS was winning the playoff final. Had we lost we would be currently riding high in the Championship and Smith would be being lauded

So what do we do next?.......sack suso, sign another duff DOF do the same again, Dean accept poor players and rinse &repeat.

We now have 2 people to blame......Manager & DOF 

I say leave the football matters to the manager, he just needs a chief scout to report to him, not  the other way around.