Dean Smith

[bobzy]

10 hours ago, TRO said:

Perhaps, i am looking at all the things we are not doing and wasn't doing under SB

like passing and moving, like ball retention, like first touch, like passing in the last third, like retaining the initiative, like defending our goal, like no composure in the box.

maybe, we look for different things.

Sorry, but you’re just wrong.

Passing in the last third, ball retention, retaining the initiative - we’re doing all of these things at the moment. I’d argue our defending has improved too, although we still look shaky and prone to individual errors.

For whatever reason, it seems you’re not wanting to see a change? Or maybe you’re only looking for results? In which case, sure, we’ve lost 2 out of 3 under Smith so far.

Personally, I feel positive about what I’ve seen. 

[Brumstopdogs]

Have to say (even after we lost) I enjoyed listening to Dean Smith's appraisal of the game and how it went because he seemed to be watching the same game I saw.

The things he said appeared logicial and he clearly has a plan and he is determined to see that plan come to fruition.

The more I see of Smith and what he is trying to do the more confidence I have that this is the right appointment.

We're going to give a team a good spanking soon (insert Kenneth Williams gif here)

[TRO]

5 hours ago, romavillan said:

Can't see where you're coming from here, it's not aesthetics, it's a practical solution to being easily closed down and relieved of the ball. We WANT them to come and press us at the back, it's the whole point, then we move it quickly and exploit the gaps they leave pressing us. We did get pressed, we want that, bu twe were absolutely not reieved of the bal easily at all.

DS has already changed the collective play massively after a handful of training sessions. Bruce had 2 years and they still looked like they'd just met in the car park. 

ok....so whats next?....if its changed massively.

Its semantics IMO

I disagree, I think we lose the ball too easily.....Teams press us and we lose it, we don't move it quickly and exploit the gaps, when we do get pressed, so why would we want it?

Its a simple game.....There are many many styles formations, theories that can sometimes complicate things and challenge a simple game theory.

but it all comes down to winning.....that is what all the huff and puff is for.

The team who wins the most games usually has everyone follow their system and try to emulate their game plan.....Rarely is anything new in this game, its been around for over a hundred years, its all been done somewhere else at some time....its what's in vogue and who has won with it.

The game has changed is another chesnut.....its always changing, it always has....too much is read in to that.

 

Edited October 27, 2018 by TRO

[KenjiOgiwara]

Looking at the match thread, I'm just bemused at the people who's critical of DS. He's been here for 2-3 weeks? Been in charge of 3 matches? In this period there's been an international break? He's had ZERO transfer windows to fix the shite Bruce left us with? What on earth did people expect?

This season is pretty much written off for me. We gotta hope to adapt a solid playing style, add the right players in January, get rid of a couple of bad ones. Add more in the summer, and have a proper pre-season. That's it. Good stuff takes time. 

[TRO]

3 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Looking at the match thread, I'm just bemused at the people who's critical of DS. He's been here for 2-3 weeks? Been in charge of 3 matches? In this period there's been an international break? He's had ZERO transfer windows to fix the shite Bruce left us with? What on earth did people expect?

This season is pretty much written off for me. We gotta hope to adapt a solid playing style, add the right players in January, get rid of a couple of bad ones. Add more in the summer, and have a proper pre-season. That's it. Good stuff takes time. 

I don't think many are critical of Dean Smith, we all know this is going to take time....and yes he has had no time, another reason for me questioning, the degree of improvement...its not possible IMO.

The match thread is what it is is.....Its a reflection of what fans saw during the game.....right or wrong.

[romavillan]

11 minutes ago, TRO said:

ok....so whats next?....if its changed massively.

Its semantics IMO

I disagree, I think we lose the ball too easily.....Teams press us and we lose it, we don't move it quickly and exploit the gaps, when we do get pressed, so why would we want it?

Its a simply game.....There are many many styles formations, theories that can sometimes complicate things and challenge a simple game theory.

but it all comes down to winning.....that is what all the huff and puff is for.

The team who wins the most games usually has everyone follow their system and try to emulate their game plan.....Rarely is anything new in this game, its been around for over a hundred years, its all been done somewhere else at some time....its what's in vogue and who has won with it.

The game has changed is another chesnut.....its always changing, it always has....too much is read in to that.

 

What's next? The great coaching continues and we get better.

We had over two thirds of the possession away from home against one of the form teams in this division. We didn't move it quickly when pressed? What game were you watching? We passed it better than we have for years, our best moments came when we did invite the press and played it from back to front with an effort on goal. As others have mentioned I can't remember the last time we did that.

It's a simple game, Smith is about doing simple things well. What worked for us last night was one touch to control it, the second to pass it and then move into space. Simples.

I'm aware of the game's history too. When we were winning league titles Scotland was the equivalent of Brazil as they had developed a passing game to counter the public schoolboy english style of big egos running with the ball on their own. We had a big scottish component (including McGregor obviously) and we were the biggest and best.

Yes the game changes, it always will, but playing like we did under Bruce would be shit in any era. Doing the basics well, will stand you in good stead, a hundred years ago (or more), in the 70s and 80s and now in the 21st century.

Edited October 27, 2018 by romavillan

[TRO]

47 minutes ago, terrytini said:

After one week you “ don’t see where we are going if we aren’t winning “.

So after one week the only way you’d have seen we were going anywhere is if we’d been winning. Well we Won 1. Did we need to Win all 3 for us to be “ going somewhere “ ? 

I think you are purposely trying to take my comments out of context Terry, because I fail to see your degree of improvement, in a very short space of time....arguably an unfair period of time.

My winning comment was a generalisation.....its what we should aim for.

Draws under the circumstances would have sufficed.

I was talking about the fullness of time, if the improvements do not equate to wins....yes , I don't see where that improvement take us.

In the first Instance, I go to games to see us win, if I can be entertained in the process, fine....I see that as a bonus.

I can count on one hand the games i enjoy when we lose....but that's me.

 

[trekka]

29 minutes ago, Brumstopdogs said:

Have to say (even after we lost) I enjoyed listening to Dean Smith's appraisal of the game and how it went because he seemed to be watching the same game I saw.

The things he said appeared logicial and he clearly has a plan and he is determined to see that plan come to fruition.

The more I see of Smith and what he is trying to do the more confidence I have that this is the right appointment.

We're going to give a team a good spanking soon (insert Kenneth Williams gif here)

[MarkLillis]

Of course the result was disappointing,

The way we played at times was far from it though.Under Bruce we struggled to see any pattern to the team play (i was a fan so i looked really hard!)

Watching the early Smith offerings i would say that soon we will see a side to be proud of. A side that is obviously playing a style of play that the manager has thought about and developed.

Its possible the Bruce plan (big players,doing special things) would of worked but he blew it after the Wolves match.

Who knows the future may be brighter now under Smith than if we had gone on and secured promotion under bruce last season.

[TRO]

16 minutes ago, romavillan said:

What's next? The great coaching continues and we get better.

We had over two thirds of the possession away from home against one of the form teams in this division. We didn't move it quickly when pressed? What game were you watching? We passed it better than we have for years, our best moments came when we did invite the press and played it from back to front with an effort on goal. As others have mentioned I can't remember the last time we did that.

It's a simple game, Smith is about doing simple things well. What worked for us last night was one touch to control it, the second to pass it and then move into space. Simples.

I'm aware of the game's history too. When we were winning league titles Scotland was the equivalent of Brazil as they had developed a passing game to counter the public schoolboy english style of big egos running with the ball on their own. We had a big scottish component (including McGregor obviously) and we were the biggest and best.

Yes the game changes, it always will, but playing like we did under Bruce would be shit in any era. Doing the basics well, will stand you in good stead, a hundred years ago (or more), in the 70s and 80s and now in the 21st century.

amazing.

what I remember is Elmo scurring for a misplaced pass on the bye line, that resembled a player not in tune with whats going on. I remember seeing their 2 centre backs giggling like 2 school girls in an interview after having an easy nights work.

I guess we are all different in what we see.

[mikeyp102]

We are already trying to move the ball more, at present the final third is lacking, but what do we expect after less than 2 weeks on charge.

[Lerner's Driver]

16 minutes ago, TRO said:

I disagree, I think we lose the ball too easily.....Teams press us and we lose it, we don't move it quickly and exploit the gaps, when we do get pressed, so why would we want it?

This is a key point. Hutton advances and his athleticism might jet him past one player, but then he thinks ****, what now and invariably, we see him put his foot on the ball and pass it sideways or backwards.

The problem is, you can say the same about pretty much half the team, to some greater or lesser extent at the moment. In short, we severely lack quality, so is a passing system beyond us?

I don't want it to be, none of us do, but Hutton, Taylor, Tuanzebe and Chester are all prone to dangerously inaccurate passing and It's a massive worry.

Further up the pitch when we do attack, our build up is so painfully slow, predictable and unthreatening, that it doesn't matter how long we keep the ball if we inevitably give it away because Taylor got pressed or Kodjia runs up yet another blind alley.

[TRO]

1 hour ago, terrytini said:

Odd, because the Poster is saying “ some good progress” has to morph into results ( something with which everyone would agree).

You have been saying there has been no progress visible to you, and there can’t have been because we didn’t Win.

Id respectfully suggest the point he is making couldn’t be further removed from the one you’ve been making. 

No its how you perceive it.

I too am looking for good progress and I am looking for that progress to morph in to wins or positive results.

I am saying that the progress you see is superficial/ modest IMO and not sufficient progress for me to see it morph in to wins.

I respectfully suggest you are not in tune with what I am actually saying.

Progress has to start somewhere, i get that.....you and many others have chosen to mention progress that they have witnessed, for my part, I feel its fairly insignificant AT THIS POINT...my opinion.....I have supported my opinion by saying when the progress has turned in to positive results, I feel more inclined to want to talk about it.....for now I will just sit back and let the man get on with it.

I hope that makes my position clearer.....sorry for any ambiguity.

[Lerner's Driver]

38 minutes ago, KenjiOgiwara said:

Looking at the match thread, I'm just bemused at the people who's critical of DS. He's been here for 2-3 weeks? Been in charge of 3 matches? In this period there's been an international break? He's had ZERO transfer windows to fix the shite Bruce left us with? What on earth did people expect?

This season is pretty much written off for me. We gotta hope to adapt a solid playing style, add the right players in January, get rid of a couple of bad ones. Add more in the summer, and have a proper pre-season. That's it. Good stuff takes time. 

All true, but do we have time? If we don't go up this year, which is pretty much a given, then he'll be implementing his passing system with a whole bunch of new players and so it continues, like a never ending game of sliding squares. Unless I'm wrong of course, which is very possible.

[AntrimBlack]

9 minutes ago, Lerner's Driver said:

All true, but do we have time? If we don't go up this year, which is pretty much a given, then he'll be implementing his passing system with a whole bunch of new players and so it continues, like a never ending game of sliding squares. Unless I'm wrong of course, which is very possible.

These will probably be players chosen with his preferred system in mind. That is the difference. We have old dogs who are trying to learn new tricks.

Third oldest team in the Championship, and they look it.

We will just have to be patient.

[villabromsgrove]

I enjoyed watching Villa last night.

We played some exciting football at times and Grealish and McGinn were classy.

The coaching must already be having an effect because even an amateur like me can clearly identify those players who will not fit in to Dean Smith's philosophy.

Hutton, Taylor, Elmohamady and Whelan all looked awkward on the ball last night. They tried hard enough, but their technique is sadly lacking which makes their passing negatively 'safe' rather than incisive.

Chester is a competent and hard working number two in a centre back pairing but he doesn't lead and position his defence. He needs to be organised by a vocally dominate "Cahill" type partner.

Kodjia is mystifying. He has good skill, sufficient pace, but he chooses when and how to use it. He plays for himself rather than the team. Can Smith change his mindset and work rate?

The fact that last night's match was enjoyable to watch despite the loss is an indication that Dean Smith has the right ideas. We need to be patient while he sorts out the right players for the job in hand.

UTV!

[Jareth]

32 minutes ago, MarkLillis said:

Watching the early Smith offerings i would say that soon we will see a side to be proud of. A side that is obviously playing a style of play that the manager has thought about and developed.

[Tumblerseven]

23 minutes ago, TRO said:

No its how you perceive it.

I too am looking for good progress and I am looking for that progress to morph in to wins or positive results.

I am saying that the progress you see is superficial/ modest IMO and not sufficient progress for me to see it morph in to wins.

I respectfully suggest you are not in tune with what I am actually saying.

Progress has to start somewhere, i get that.....you and many others have chosen to mention progress that they have witnessed, for my part, I feel its fairly insignificant AT THIS POINT...my opinion.....I have supported my opinion by saying when the progress has turned in to positive results, I feel more inclined to want to talk about it.....for now I will just sit back and let the man get on with it.

I hope that makes my position clearer.....sorry for any ambiguity.

Or maybe u making some odd comments whitch making u look like u overly critical? 

I agree with terrytini and i think alot of people perceived u like that.

In one comment u say its been a short amount of time. In other comment u sound like u expect BIG changes already. 

Guy made a point about how we move ball from the back and it worked.What was your responce? U said: How can it possibly have worked if we lost? 

I mean this is just nonsence! 

U picked some weird very simplistic positions and thats a fact and thats what confuses people. Because those weird nonsensical comments or positions making u look overly critical of Dean.

Edited October 27, 2018 by Tumblerseven

[Pimlico_Villa]

I'm still reserving judgement on Smith, but on balance haven't been massively impressed.

Think there is a real danger he over-engineers tactics here. 

[Stevo985]

I'm not seeing any difference yet.

BUT

it's way way too early to be making any sort of judgement. If DS changes things the way we all want him to it's going to take longer than 3 matches.
It'll come.