Scott Hogan

[Condimentalist]

Not a starter for me. Green, Kodjia, Adomah should be a front 3. 

[DCJonah]

1 minute ago, Dr_Pangloss said:

Firstly I agree he was a massive overspend, but that's not really his fault. If you just watch the goals he scored at his previous club, the vast majority were either from service into the box, or because he was played in from midfield. Surely Bruce would have understood the sort of player he is when he signed him. 

Again, a bit of service would go a long way with this player, unfortunately Bruce's tactics are an absolute joke.

Don't get me wrong, I'm sure better service would help, but you can say that about every striker. If the service isn't there you can still do things to make life difficult for defenders. He's shown to be quite weak on the ball and his touch isn't great, he has to make up for these things in other ways. No good just walking round the pitch blaming the service. More limited players than him can offer more so it has to be down to him as well. 

Gabby came on and won a free kick in a dangerous position within 5 minutes. Hogan could still be causing there sorts of problems even without the right service. He doesn't do anything and that's an issue at the moment. 

[TrentVilla]

Just now, DCJonah said:

He's a £14 million striker, who had premier league clubs interested. Surely he's got to offer more than just waiting for that perfect through ball. 

Gabby would cause problems even if the ball wasn't perfect. Lots of average players would just based on work rate and desire, 2 things he's barely shown in a villa shirt so far. 

The price is irrelevant.

If you think he can only score from a "perfect through ball" then you are wrong.

Gabby has still despite everything got real pace, that's his one attribute with or without the ball. Hogan's attributes are picking runs, timing and finishing.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because there is nothing you could say that would alter my view.

[DCJonah]

2 minutes ago, TrentVilla said:

The price is irrelevant.

If you think he can only score from a "perfect through ball" then you are wrong.

Gabby has still despite everything got real pace, that's his one attribute with or without the ball. Hogan's attributes are picking runs, timing and finishing.

We are going to have to agree to disagree because there is nothing you could say that would alter my view.

No probs, I'm not trying to alter your view. 

I just disagree that his complete lack of involvement in games is down to everybody else and he has nothing to do with it. 

[VillaChris]

From what I saw last season of Hogan he's pretty lightweight, ball was knocked out to him and he was easily shrugged off the ball by the CB (QPR and Reading games).

Kodjia is miles better at hold up play and is just far superior as our main striker so lets hope he's back in September.

[rodders0223]

12 minutes ago, VillaChris said:

From what I saw last season of Hogan he's pretty lightweight, ball was knocked out to him and he was easily shrugged off the ball by the CB (QPR and Reading games).

Kodjia is miles better at hold up play and is just far superior as our main striker so lets hope he's back in September.

I don't think he trusts his body. You see when he presses, I don't think he ever goes in with the intention of making a tackle or a block.

[terrytini]

I've largely been of the Trent/Pangloss view that he could be very dangerous if we played to his strengths, when in fact I don't think he's been given 3 decent passes since he arrived.

On the other hand DC Jonah is spot on that Gabby - who I don't really rate anymore - immediately caused problems to the opposition. Davies certainly did more in his first five minutes than Hogan all game.

I suppose the point is if we are going to play like we did last year and it looks like we will, Hogan won't be effective.

[hippo]

On 15/07/2017 at 19:48, terrytini said:

I've largely been of the Trent/Pangloss view that he could be very dangerous if we played to his strengths, when in fact I don't think he's been given 3 decent passes since he arrived.

On the other hand DC Jonah is spot on that Gabby - who I don't really rate anymore - immediately caused problems to the opposition. Davies certainly did more in his first five minutes than Hogan all game.

I suppose the point is if we are going to play like we did last year and it looks like we will, Hogan won't be effective.

Playing to his strengths seems to entail delivering the ball to him unmarked 6 yards from goal.

You watch Kjodia's goals from last season, pretty often he has to beat a defender or is presurised from a defender   - he still manages to get past him get his shot on target.

Its as much the lack of service as Hogans near 100% failure rate when he has to beat a defender.

Sorry we have brought a dud here.

[villan_007]

Brought a dud? have a day off. You don't go from goal machine at every level he has played at to dud in a handful of games.

Look at his header last season. Absolute cracking finish from shock horror some service.

In what planet do strikers not need service?? has anyone on here played football before? it's black and white. Salt and pepper.

Feed the lad. He'll score. The first half at shrewsbury showed two very good strikers at this level, stranded, getting nothing, and having to drop deep to get a sniff. People are then expecting them to go on a messi run from deep in the opposition half, beat 6 players and score a goal?? Come on.

[Demitri_C]

28 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

Brought a dud? have a day off. You don't go from goal machine at every level he has played at to dud in a handful of games.

Look at his header last season. Absolute cracking finish from shock horror some service.

In what planet do strikers not need service?? has anyone on here played football before? it's black and white. Salt and pepper.

Feed the lad. He'll score. The first half at shrewsbury showed two very good strikers at this level, stranded, getting nothing, and having to drop deep to get a sniff. People are then expecting them to go on a messi run from deep in the opposition half, beat 6 players and score a goal?? Come on.

But this team has enough creativity in it. Hourinhane, lansbury green, grealish admomah, heck even mccormack can create chances. Is it a mental thing? Can they not play together or is it the coaching/manager? 

[villan_007]

4 minutes ago, Demitri_C said:

But this team has enough creativity in it. Hourinhane, lansbury green, grealish admomah, heck even mccormack can create chances. Is it a mental thing? Can they not play together or is it the coaching/manager? 

The million dollar question mate - it's all there. I guess the finger points to Bruce.

But then, when they're on the pitch surely they should be having a go themselves?

[AntrimBlack]

13 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

The million dollar question mate - it's all there. I guess the finger points to Bruce.

But then, when they're on the pitch surely they should be having a go themselves?

Doesn't really work that way, though, does it.

They need a structure, a system, so they know what their interaction with their team mates should be.

Y'know - coaching. 

[hippo]

50 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

Brought a dud? have a day off. You don't go from goal machine at every level he has played at to dud in a handful of games.

Look at his header last season. Absolute cracking finish from shock horror some service.

In what planet do strikers not need service?? has anyone on here played football before? it's black and white. Salt and pepper.

Feed the lad. He'll score. The first half at shrewsbury showed two very good strikers at this level, stranded, getting nothing, and having to drop deep to get a sniff. People are then expecting them to go on a messi run from deep in the opposition half, beat 6 players and score a goal?? Come on.

Unfortunately  he has 

Strikers do need service. He gets the same service as Kjodia 

I d settle for him beating 1 defender let alone six - in fact he needs to concentrate on staying on side and upright.

Dud - all day long.

[Ingram85]

Its all about tactics and getting strikers like Hogan some kind of service. Of which we have none of and are useless at doing.

I'm slowly coming round to the idea that Bruce has no idea how to get the best out of this squad. I know pre season doesn't matter all that much but its the same old aimless, lethargic and rudderless stuff from last season. Like the lights are on but no ones home.

He has put together a very good championship squad that should by rights **** piss this league but we need a switched on courageous manager to go with it. I like Bruce, but I question whether he is capable enough for what we need to do. 

Edited July 17, 2017 by Ingram85

[Demitri_C]

50 minutes ago, villan_007 said:

The million dollar question mate - it's all there. I guess the finger points to Bruce.

But then, when they're on the pitch surely they should be having a go themselves?

Yeah it does seem to point to bruce but I will wait until fitness levels are up and the experimentation period is over with. Come on anyone think we will come into the season with a cb pairing of richards and hutton? those two were our pairing when we went down to shrewsbury

bruce need sto let the shackles off a bit in these games and show what they are capable of. against walsall i want to see abit more attacking 

[villaglint]

Lots of good and fair points in here. 

One to add is that in his debut he took the ball just inside their half and ran at them going past about 3/4 and nearly scoring a worldly. 

Never seen him do that since, always seems to have his back to goal. Doesn't seem great at holding the ball up so it's clearly not a strength of his. 

[hippo]

Bottom line.

Expect no more than 4 goals from Hogan next season.

[omariqy]

Kodjia and Hogan are very different players. Kodjia can make his own goals. Hogan is an out and out striker. He needs service. Look at the goals scored by Kodjia and a fair chunk of them is him creating something out of nothing. Hogan has never done that. We have enough creativity to create these chances. We just need to let them free.

[brummybloke]

Not sure what people would have said about garry lineker if we had managed to sign him at the time Doug nearly almost sort of tried to buy him ?

Hogan is your modern day lineker type, has that burst of pace to beat the last man but relies on his movement to get into the scoring position.

He's not going to look great back to goal and 2 cb on him.

He's a finisher who relies on chances, he's not a regular creator of things out of nothing unless it's in the box.

Why people are thinking he should do everything else ? 

Like most forwards who score regularly, the team play to the forwards strength and if kodja is on the pitch it will always be quick ball in the air despite him not being great at winning the first ball unless it's directly at goal.

We don't need to play tippy tappy football but we also don't need route 1.

Sometimes each will work on it's own but the majority of the time it's a combination of slick passing and direct play that will win a game at any level.

Hogan should be there to finish off the build up play.

[DCJonah]

I get the service argument. But even if we were playing well what are we realistically expecting, 2/3 good chances created for him a game? 

What should he be doing for the other 87 minutes? I can't believe people think all he should do is run on to the odd chance that we might create. Surely he has to make life difficult for defenders, play some part in the build up and run channels at times. There has to be more expectation on a £14 million player than run into a good ball every so often. 

It's the lack of anything that I have a problem with. When things aren't going perfectly a striker still has to get involved and cause problems. He's currently so easy to play against that he's not worth having.