Steve Bruce

[TRO]

I have never been so confident as in the last 20 years that we have the right set up and are on the right lines

I have witnessed, rebuilds with Ron Saunders, Graham Taylor, Brian Little and John Gregory.....Martin O'Neill to a degree.

We are on our way back.....how long it will take, I have no idea, but I will not be put off by a slow build.

sometimes ,when it's too quick it's less sustainable.

[bannedfromHandV]

4 hours ago, vreitti said:

(Almost) all of them?

We barely scraped a draw against Wolves.

Got lucky with a last minute penalty against Reading.

Late Kodjia magic against Fulham.

Against Birmingham we never looked like winning, and you could see the equaliser looming.

Once again a few moments of brilliance from Kodjia to barely overcome a poor Blackburn at home.

Okay we played some good stuff again Brighton away, but they were at us pretty hard second half.

I don't remember Cardiff at home, but we won 3-1 so we probably played some decent stuff.

Wigan at home, Greaslish screamer in the end.

I suppose I don't really need to continue? I'm not saying we were utterly abysmal in all of these games, just that the performances haven't been all that great, even though we've won, and I honestly do think we've been quite lucky with some of these results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think the only one of those that has any credence is the Wolves game

[TRO]

10 hours ago, vreitti said:

(Almost) all of them?

We barely scraped a draw against Wolves.

Got lucky with a last minute penalty against Reading.

Late Kodjia magic against Fulham.

Against Birmingham we never looked like winning, and you could see the equaliser looming.

Once again a few moments of brilliance from Kodjia to barely overcome a poor Blackburn at home.

Okay we played some good stuff again Brighton away, but they were at us pretty hard second half.

I don't remember Cardiff at home, but we won 3-1 so we probably played some decent stuff.

Wigan at home, Greaslish screamer in the end.

I suppose I don't really need to continue? I'm not saying we were utterly abysmal in all of these games, just that the performances haven't been all that great, even though we've won, and I honestly do think we've been quite lucky with some of these results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In all of those games, different problems we have had ,have undone us.There are so many, due to the state of the team.

its almost folly to try and appraise this season.....its WIP

for example.

• we never had the resilience we have now against Blues.....this team would have beaten them.
• We had so many new faces in Jan, I can't take the games seriously, honestly.....its so hard to form any reasonable opinion, such was the disruption.
• Kodjia is a special talent and we need to blend him more in to team play, I think that will happen.

but there are plenty of examples of top strikers carrying teams....Suarez,Henry,Shearer.

its a plus not a minus.

as a part of the rebuild we will get more players scoring.

.......don't criticise, as if we are the finished article.....we are far from it.

 

Edited March 13, 2017 by TRO

[kurtsimonw]

So every time we win by 1 its down to luck, essentially? As for Brighton second half and them being "at us", where'd you get that? We hammered them second half, should've won by a couple of goals. 

[bobzy]

7 minutes ago, kurtsimonw said:

So every time we win by 1 its down to luck, essentially? As for Brighton second half and them being "at us", where'd you get that? We hammered them second half, should've won by a couple of goals. 

Not at all - but a fair amount of those games were "lucky".

As I said before, it's essentially down to the opposition we've played being poor at taking their chances (as we have been for a lot of the season, too) but we shouldn't have gotten anything from the Wolves or Blues games (IMO) and we were the second best side against Blackburn, Reading and the majority of the Cardiff game.  Struggled to beat Wigan and Fulham too although they were the poorer teams in those games (IMO).

I feel more confident about the team on this decent run as, Derby game aside, they seem more in tune with each other.

[HanoiVillan]

I was at both the Blackburn game and the Cardiff game and we were second best in neither. 

[Stevo985]

2 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

I was at both the Blackburn game and the Cardiff game and we were second best in neither. 

Agreed.

The Cardiff one especially. How anyone could come to the conclusion we were second best in that game is beyond me.

[TRO]

On 3/13/2017 at 11:33, vreitti said:

I agree. Maybe I was a tad unclear. I suppose what I was trying to imply was that I think he was extremely lucky at the beginning. We played like shit for ages, but still got the results. Then the inevitable downfall came.

And then he became unlucky and now he is lucky again.

Edited March 14, 2017 by TRO

[terrytini]

I read a post by Mark a couple of pages back where he asked with some incredulity how anyone scored Bruce as Poor or Very Poor after Saturday.

As one who did I will explain - but only because he asked the question, not because I want to revisit the whole subject !!

First off I think I was harsh in hindsight. I would move him up one. But why ?

Because I thought we were dreadful. Please don't post back telling me I don't know what I'm talking about - I don't pretend to....I'm simply saying I watched that game and felt more disinterested with every minute. 

And despite what may appear the case I am, every week, a very vocal ( positively) supporter. So it's not that I predetermined I'd not like it.

In fact I quite enjoyed parts of the Rotherham and Huddersfield performances.

Yes we showed better character, yes we put a shift in,  and I've read since the opinions of others I respect which suggest maybe we weren't as bad as it felt, to me, but it DID feel that way so that's all I can mark him on.

To ME ( and again, I note the observations of others who saw it differently) we basically did what we have done for 80% of the time Bruce has been here. 

We let the opposition play football and try to win on the break or with a set piece.

Fine it may work and I will probably enjoy it if we win but it did nothing for me against Derby or on Saturday. I felt all the good football going forward was by Wednesday, even when outnumbered. I DO accept we play well defensively. Which I enjoy in its own right. 

I couldn't believe how isolated Kodja was until the enforced change. I couldn't believe us playing with four full backs, or bringing on a centre half when 2-0 up against 10 men.

For me he still shows way too much respect for the opposition.

Yes it worked though.

Tactical masterstrokes ? Or cautious substitutions that happened to work ? I don't know, only Bruce knows.

I do know that they came close to scoring with 10 men and I suspect reactions would've been very different if itd finished 1-1. 

But I agree that's IFS and MAYBEs

Im sorry guys - I keep reading TRO telling us Bruce is this that and the other, I'm not convinced, and I certainly don't see the clear evidence for such total faith. Equally though I accept he might be what we need.

Dont get me wrong, he's done well getting us back to winning- although in my view that, like his first two months, is Par, id say it was the Slump ( caused by him IMO but that's been done to death) that stands out, not the Wins.

Also I like him ( though am appalled by what he said about Richards) and I want him to do well. 

But I didn't enjoy what I saw, could barely celebrate the second goal, and didn't join in DLBIA, so I said 'Poor' ( which in hindsight should've been Average)

There's your explanation Mark.

The rest of you save your breath !!! ( some chance i know, I know lol..... but I can't see myself arguing the toss )

I hope I come round !!

Edited March 14, 2017 by terrytini

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

6 minutes ago, terrytini said:

I read a post by Mark a couple of pages back where he asked with some incredulity how anyone scored Bruce as Poor or Very Poor after Saturday.

As one who did I will explain - but only because he asked the question, not because I want to revisit the whole subject !!

First off I think I was harsh in hindsight. I would move him up one. But why ?

Because I thought we were dreadful. Please don't post back telling me I don't know what I'm talking about - I don't pretend to....I'm simply saying I watched that game and felt more disinterested with every minute. 

And despite what may appear the case I am, every week, a very vocal ( positively) supporter. So it's not that I predetermined I'd not like it.

In fact I quite enjoyed parts of the Rotherham and Huddersfield performances.

Yes we showed better character, yes we put a shift in,  and I've read since the opinions of others I respect which suggest maybe we weren't as bad as it felt, to me, but it DID feel that way so that's all I can mark him on.

To ME ( and again, I note the observations of others who saw it differently) we basically did what we have done for 80% of the time Bruce has been here. 

We let the opposition play football and try to win on the break or with a set piece.

Fine it may work and I will probably enjoy it if we win but it did nothing for me against Derby or on Saturday. I felt all the good football going forward was by Wednesday, even when outnumbered. I DO accept we play well defensively. Which I enjoy in its own right. 

I couldn't believe how isolated Kodja was until the enforced change. I couldn't believe us playing with four full backs, or bringing on a centre half when 2-0 up against 10 men.

For me he still shows way too much respect for the opposition.

Yes it worked though.

Tactical masterstrokes ? Or cautious substitutions that happened to work ? I don't know, only Bruce knows.

I do know that they came close to scoring with 10 men and I suspect reactions would've been very different if itd finished 1-1. 

But I agree that's IFS and MAYBEs

Im sorry guys - I keep reading TRO telling us Bruce is this that and the other, I'm not convinced, and I certainly don't see the clear evidence for such total faith. Equally though I accept he might be what we need.

Dont get me wrong, he's done well getting us back to winning- although in my view that, like his first two months, is Par, id say it was the Slump ( caused by him IMO but that's been done to death) that stands out, not the Wins.

Also I like him ( though am appalled by what he said about Richards) and I want him to do well. 

But I didn't enjoy what I saw, could barely celebrate the second goal, and didn't join in DLBIA, so I said 'Poor' ( which in hindsight should've been Average)

There's your explanation Mark.

The rest of you save your breath !!! ( some chance i know, I know lol..... but I can't see myself arguing the toss )

I hope I come round !!

Fair enough post.

[dont_do_it_doug.]

16 minutes ago, terrytini said:

There's your explanation Mark.

The rest of you save your breath !!! ( some chance i know, I know lol..... but I can't see myself arguing the toss )

I hope I come round !!

Fine, but I think you've misinterpreted the purpose of this open forum. You could have just DM'd Mark?

I'm going to post my opinion anyway, you don't have to read if you don't want to...

As I said in the match review thread, I thought it was his best performance for us to date. By far. That's not necessarily the team on the pitch, individually a few of them were off the pace, but Bruce? Nailed it.

Dealing with 9 injuries, another in the warm up to arguably our fulcrum these last few weeks. Baker goes down early on and rather than go for a straight swap he does something that no doubt most people thought a bit mad at the time. In retrospect Bannan was sitting deep and Jedinak was fairly redundant, the two up top with one dropping deeper onto Bannan, the ability to press from the front, Jedinak slotting into centre defense like a boss. Hutton on the blooming wing! Excellent. 

Like I said, I didn't think the overall individual performance was all that and we almost blew it with another individual error (though I don't think it was a pen by the way) but hey, that's football. Rolling with the punches. To be coping as we are with the injuries we have, winning 4 from 5, it's fantastic.

Keep it up Steve.

[terrytini]

Yes DDID I could've pm'd him didn't think !

I saw your views after the game - you are one of the people I referenced in my Post when I said there are others whose views I respect who saw it different. 

Amazing game football when people watch the same thing with such different feelings !

[Mjvilla]

19 hours ago, terrytini said:

I read a post by Mark a couple of pages back where he asked with some incredulity how anyone scored Bruce as Poor or Very Poor after Saturday.

There's your explanation Mark.

The rest of you save your breath !!! ( some chance i know, I know lol..... but I can't see myself arguing the toss )

I hope I come round !!

@JE- @NottingVilla

just an example of a well-reasoned post that goes against the grain and what I meant when I said if you put your thoughts out there in a well balanced way then people would be all ears. Not just putting the same points out over and over and slagging everything and  everyone off.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

27 minutes ago, Mjvilla said:

@JE- @NottingVilla

just an example of a well-reasoned post that goes against the grain and what I meant when I said if you put your thoughts out there in a well balanced way then people would be all ears. Not just putting the same points out over and over and slagging everything and  everyone off.

Exactly mate!

[lexicon]

You judge a manager by his results first and foremost. I literally couldn't care less about how we play if we win, it's totally unimportant. 

[TRO]

19 hours ago, terrytini said:

Im sorry guys - I keep reading TRO telling us Bruce is this that and the other, I'm not convinced, and I certainly don't see the clear evidence for such total faith. Equally though I accept he might be what we need....

Terry

I am not telling you Steve Bruce is anything other than WIP.......Its my defence of that situation, is maybe making you believe I am.

Please do not misconstrue what I am saying here.

I just happen to believe he is working his way through a car crash and that the things to be put right may take longer than we all thought.....I maybe wrong, but I am convinced I am right.

I see what you see on match day and I admit it is not pretty.....but if it was the finished article I would be worried, but its not, far from it.

This thing was never going to be fixed quickly by any manager.

I accept you want to see better football and I suspect Steve Bruce does too......but he can't fix everything at once.

No one can tell you the football is good, if you don't think it is, its your opinion and I respect that......my point is give him time to fix a mammoth task.

I repeat myself ......This what we are watching, is far from the finished article (if in fact, there is such a thing, but you know what I mean)

Ps No one can convince you Terry, you have to go with your own thoughts. I am comfortable we will have a good side in the not too distant future.....the problem is no one can put a time to that.

[TRO]

4 hours ago, terrytini said:

Yes DDID I could've pm'd him didn't think !

I saw your views after the game - you are one of the people I referenced in my Post when I said there are others whose views I respect who saw it different. 

Amazing game football when people watch the same thing with such different feelings !

Its like the old saying....." you must have seen a different game to me"........ironically, we probably have.

...... because we are watching the game through our own eyes not someone elses and we all have different views in the main.

We all have different interpretations of what has been on display.....for me that is the spice of it all, not the frustration.

I guess if a 1,000 of us looked at the Mona Lisa there would be 1,000 different versions.

Thats Football.

 

[markavfc40]

5 hours ago, terrytini said:

..............

There's your explanation Mark....

 

@terrytini Cheers mate. I didn't look who voted his performance on Saturday poor and very poor but thanks for giving your reasons so eloquently and acknowledging that in hindsight you'd been a bit harsh.

I know that you have strong doubts about Bruce but I also know that you are desperate to be wrong and would be over the moon to put your hands up if you are so despite having an opposing view on Bruce I know yours are still coming from the right place 

[Villan_of_oz]

1 hour ago, markavfc40 said:

@terrytini Cheers mate. I didn't look who voted his performance on Saturday poor and very poor but thanks for giving your reasons so eloquently and acknowledging that in hindsight you'd been a bit harsh.

I know that you have strong doubts about Bruce but I also know that you are desperate to be wrong and would be over the moon to put your hands up if you are so despite having an opposing view on Bruce I know yours are still coming from the right place 

@terrytini lots of love and respect coming your way mate, but cudos to you like I've said to you before, you're opinion is valid because of how you write it. 

I disagree with you wholeheartedly but I  still read your posts and enjoy a different point of view. 

Many others on this site could learn a lot from you on how to get your POV without alienating everyone. 

Look forward to your post after our next win 

[Villan_of_oz]

Can't work out why but this thread isn't as tiresome, boring and repetitive as last week.

Lots of well articulated opinions and honest debate, its quite lovely to be honest.

Just can't put my finger on what is different.