LakotaDakota Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 9 minutes ago, TRO said: This is my theory.... We have been signing players who think they are coming to the promised land, they have been offered much gold to abandon their last club to taste the luxury of life. the elements of their play that has made them attractive and gained them recognition have now been abondoned for the better life. when players come to us they think they have "arrived" in the big time.....The hard work is over, because another player will do it for them.....they are playing with better players in theory and they will cover. When it goes tits up and they are being out fought, out muscled, and our desired.....they think, we are Aston Villa we will just sign another player in the next window to fix it. There had to be change in culture. They need to know, No more idea's of managers getting the sack at your expense. No more looking over your shoulder for someone else to bail you out No more thinking hard work is a thing of the past No more think the great name of Aston Villa will bail you out. they need to back to: Winning their individual duels and that means headers too. taking personal responsibility for their displays looking to form partnerships with their adjacent colleagues working morning noon and night at their own game Realising that they have to deny the opposition space and not stand off Run off the ball in to intelligent space to give your team mate a chance to not get caught with the ball. stop hiding behind the manager and making him responsible for everything you do. This still is a great football club.....the team are a million miles away from reflecting that, they need to dig deep in to their hearts and wallow in the good times that they can be a pert of. There us only hard work desire and an absolute collective will to win that is standing between them and the greats of the past. my advice to the club would be .......stop the recruitment, go with what we have and tell them straight, this is it guys.....no more managers, no more players, no more coaches......You will gave to fight your way out of this or we end up where your work takes us. No more attempts at bail outs of any description.......stand and fight. The problem with that is nowadays there is no real reason for anyone to care. When you get a 4 year contract promising guaranteed wages of £50,000 per week regardless of you being brilliant/shit & win or lose it just doesn't matter. Why put all the extra effort in when in reality you do not need to. I'm quite sure that most of the new players know that if we were to be promoted and following the ambition of being one of the biggest clubs in th world they would all be sold/let go anyway and there will always be someone else willing to buy them & pay them regardless 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave J Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 7 minutes ago, TRO said: This is my theory.... We have been signing players who think they are coming to the promised land, they have been offered much gold to abandon their last club to taste the luxury of life. the elements of their play that has made them attractive and gained them recognition have now been abondoned for the better life. when players come to us they think they have "arrived" in the big time.....The hard work is over, because another player will do it for them.....they are playing with better players in theory and they will cover. When it goes tits up and they are being out fought, out muscled, and our desired.....they think, we are Aston Villa we will just sign another player in the next window to fix it. There had to be change in culture. They need to know, No more idea's of managers getting the sack at your expense. No more looking over your shoulder for someone else to bail you out No more thinking hard work is a thing of the past No more think the great name of Aston Villa will bail you out. they need to back to: Winning their individual duels and that means headers too. taking personal responsibility for their displays looking to form partnerships with their adjacent colleagues working morning noon and night at their own game Realising that they have to deny the opposition space and not stand off Run off the ball in to intelligent space to give your team mate a chance to not get caught with the ball. stop hiding behind the manager and making him responsible for everything you do. This still is a great football club.....the team are a million miles away from reflecting that, they need to dig deep in to their hearts and wallow in the good times that they can be a pert of. There us only hard work desire and an absolute collective will to win that is standing between them and the greats of the past. my advice to the club would be .......stop the recruitment, go with what we have and tell them straight, this is it guys.....no more managers, no more players, no more coaches......You will gave to fight your way out of this or we end up where your work takes us. No more attempts at bail outs of any description.......stand and fight. TRO - surely Bruce has a role to play in all of this - I do preach the mantra that when a players crosses the white line theory - but some of what you say must also drilled time after time so Bruce is not exonerated from this and also the turgid style of play whose fault is this? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 minutes ago, LakotaDakota said: The problem with that is nowadays there is no real reason for anyone to care. When you get a 4 year contract promising guaranteed wages of £50,000 per week regardless of you being brilliant/shit & win or lose it just doesn't matter. Why put all the extra effort in when in reality you do not need to. I'm quite sure that most of the new players know that if we were to be promoted and following the ambition of being one of the biggest clubs in th world they would all be sold/let go anyway and there will always be someone else willing to buy them & pay them regardless I appreciate that.....I don't believe this is easy......and I have never believed money alone, will fix this. but I also believe that the complexity surrounding all this does not point to constantly changing managers until we find one that by hook or by crook cracks it......and that could be because, he got lucky, the thing has just worn itself out, the bits of improvement as we go have manifested itself, the players are fed up of losing etc ,etc. We have to make a stable stand Imo. even if Steve Bruce is dispensed with.....we cannot continue like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VillaChris Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I don't want him out yet but he surely has to get minimum 4 points from Bristol and Rotherham. Rotherham are practically relegated ffs, they have 19 points fewer than we do which says something. If we can't even beat them SB should be handing in his resignation straight after that game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyM3000 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 We need to have a set way of playing a bit like Spurs/Saints do. A lot easier said than done but we keep getting managers in that want to rebuild etc, find a manager that fits us rather than one that wants a challenge. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) So the fat turd is staying...... well I guess he's our fat turd and we will have to get behind him. Edited February 24, 2017 by thabucks Change of heart Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I quite like that this has been put out their by Wyness, and I like the idea of stability and a manager actually having a whole pre-season and possibly a year in the job, I think it could be a massive step in the right direction, but I would've thought that too if we had stuck with RDM too, who now looks like he was harshly sacked given the reprieve Bruce has just got! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TRO Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, Dave J said: TRO - surely Bruce has a role to play in all of this - I do preach the mantra that when a players crosses the white line theory - but some of what you say must also drilled time after time so Bruce is not exonerated from this and also the turgid style of play whose fault is this? Dave i am not saying Steve Bruce is totally exonerated.....but when you are in the middle of trying to repair something.....just because you are responsible for that repair, why are you actually blamed for it. If he is guilty of anything, I thinks it's underestimating the size of the task.....is it so surprising though, until you have actually got your feet under the desk. My view is that the repair job is much bigger than we all originally thought....Mistakes can be made when there are so many elements to fix, just maybe some errors of judgment can be made. I still think he has a job on his hands to hang on to it.....but we will see. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thabucks Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I think the crux of it is some people just don't like Bruce and the way he plays football and what he stands for. I'm one of them. I never wanted him, tolerated him when things were going ok as villa being successful is all that ultimately matters regardless of my personal views on him. And i got behind him as best I could. However now things are shit I just can't support him for the sake of it or deal with some of the excuses people are putting out there to defend him. The whole rebuild excuse is just a smokescreen and hides the fact that he has on paper (at worst) the 3rd best squad in the league full stop ! Time to gel is just an excuse peddled when things are going badly, he is getting nothing out of them. You can hide behind and blame Lerners neglect all you want for setting in the rot... Those days are gone along with virtually all of those players. This squad should not be where it is, the reason we are where we are is firmly down to Bruce and his decisions and (lack of) tactics. supporting him for the supposed sake of stability is just foolish. He is a limited manager who has failed so far and I'm seeing little to change my view. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 (edited) 58 minutes ago, VillaChris said: I don't want him out yet but he surely has to get minimum 4 points from Bristol and Rotherham. Rotherham are practically relegated ffs, they have 19 points fewer than we do which says something. If we can't even beat them SB should be handing in his resignation straight after that game. I expect us to thrash them We even managed to do that under RDM Edited February 24, 2017 by AshVilla Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted February 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2017 9 hours ago, OutByEaster? said: In fairness to him, two weeks ago we had two fit centre forwards. What does 2 fit forwards have to do with changing defence from 4 to 3? The number of fit forwards we have could affect midfield but baffles me why you want 3 cbs when you have 2 forwards but 2 cbs when you have 1 forward. In fact it seems counter intuitive Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted February 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2017 6 hours ago, srsmithusa said: tbf, I would prefer that the manager change formations from time to time. Tactically, you do so to capitalize on an opponents weakness or better neutralize an opponent's strengths. But you don't change if your own players are incapable of making the adjustment. To date, our current players, under Bruce, have shown themselves incapable of playing well in any formation. Which to me points to poor coaching and management as opposed to the players being shite 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted February 24, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 24, 2017 5 hours ago, Eastie said: Try tune in radio and search for BBC wm . wyness has said 100% Bruce will stay whatever the results this season and that they are very happy with him - stability is the key and no chance whatsoever of Steve Bruce leaving the club - it's a long term plan and Steve Bruce is the man whatever happens . Now that's sorted - let's get behind Bruce and get this show on the road - he is going nowhere !!!! Pure madness. League 1 here we come Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, TRO said: This is my theory.... We have been signing players who think they are coming to the promised land, they have been offered much gold to abandon their last club to taste the luxury of life in this one. the elements of their play that has made them attractive and gained them recognition have now been abandoned the for the better life. when players come to us they think they have "arrived" in the big time.....The hard work is over, because another player will do it for them.....they are playing with better players in theory and they will cover for them. When it goes tits up and they are being out fought, out muscled, and out desired.....they think, we are Aston Villa we will just sign another player in the next window to fix it. There has to be a change in culture and subsequently attitude. They need to know, No more idea's of managers getting the sack at your expense. No more looking over your shoulder for someone else to bail you out No more thinking hard work is a thing of the past No more thinking the great name of Aston Villa will bail you out. they need to get back to: Win their individual duels and that means headers too. taking personal responsibility for their displays looking to form partnerships with their adjacent colleagues. working morning noon and night at their own game. Realising that they have to deny the opposition space and not stand off Run off the ball in to intelligent space to give your team mate a chance to not get caught with the ball. stop hiding behind the manager and making him responsible for everything you do. This still is a great football club.....the team are a million miles away from reflecting that, they need to dig deep in to their hearts and wallow in the good times that they can be a part of with the right approach and application. There is only hard work desire and an absolute collective will to win that is standing between them and the greats of the past.....thats what they must think. my advice to the club would be .......stop the recruitment, go with what we have and tell them straight, this is it guys.....no more managers, no more players, no more coaches......You will have to fight your way out of this or we end up where your work takes us. No more attempts at bail outs of any description.......stand and fight. TRO. I think you and I see things similarly. With one big exception. Based on the above you attribute the culture to new players coming in thinking they have it made. I think the culture of complacency was here before they arrived, and was caused by the neglect of the owner. I think we have been getting captains and leaders and workers so that they would change the culture, but instead they are just joining in the culture. My fear, is that by tolerating poor results from the manager, the current management feeds the culture of complacency by continuing to communicate that crap results are acceptable. The management of neglect by tolerating poor results feeds the problem. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flashingqwerty Posted February 25, 2017 VT Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2017 1 hour ago, TRO said: Dave i am not saying Steve Bruce is totally exonerated.....but when you are in the middle of trying to repair something.....just because you are responsible for that repair, why are you actually blamed for it. If he is guilty of anything, I thinks it's underestimating the size of the task.....is it so surprising though, until you have actually got your feet under the desk. My view is that the repair job is much bigger than we all originally thought....Mistakes can be made when there are so many elements to fix, just maybe some errors of judgment can be made. I still think he has a job on his hands to hang on to it.....but we will see. Tro, you can say that he underestimated the job etc, but that doesnt explain things like taking off 2 strikers and putting a right midfielder up front or going 2 goals down before half time and not changing anything until the 80th minute. These are the decisions of a man who is floundering because he doesnt know what to do - and its his obvious signs of being overwhelmed that tell me we need to move on. No amount of time is going to fix SB 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striker Posted February 25, 2017 Visiting Supporter Share Posted February 25, 2017 So Bruce is still going to be manager even if Villa are relegated? I wonder how many other clubs would have made a statement like that? Just incredible. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USA_Villa Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Let me get this straight ....... DLLLDLLLLL ........... and no matter how we finish for the rest of the year we are keeping Steve Bruce. what am I missing? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sheepyvillian Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Maybe were just not good enough. Maybe the recent signings are not has good as we thought they were ,hence it doesn't matter who is managing us . Maybe ,and as hard as it is to accept, we're just doomed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mantis Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 Think people are massively overreacting here. If this terrible run continues there's no way he's staying. We all know how meaningless votes of confidence are. I expect the reason why they said what they said is to try and ease the pressure on Bruce a bit and try and get him to stop with the scared, negative football. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wezbid Posted February 25, 2017 Share Posted February 25, 2017 I don't actually believe the statement would be followed through (still keeping his job after relegation) but I can understand why plenty of people are complaining about it. There is that potential that it's serious. I can understand trying to take the pressure off of Bruce but if the board wasn't him the side to play more openly then that can be conveyed in private. The fans being told he'll be here regardless will potentially result in certain fans stepping up their complaints and ill feelings should recent form and less than convincing performances continue. I can understand the want for stability and time to implement things but Bruce is showing zero consistency in the sides he is picking. I do believe he's better than what we are seeing and maybe this will persuade him that he's got the time to persist with a style but we need to stick to it for a run of games (barring injuries). I can accept the board giving him more time but the statement of keeping him regardless has caused a bigger mess imo. Derby are in poor form so hopefully a win tomorrow will help change the mood. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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