Steve Bruce

[lexicon]

Another way of looking at it is is that Bruce has improved us consistently since he has been with us, with the improved league finishes being evidence of that. 

But you know, potato face and grr etc. 

[bannedfromHandV]

He actually didn't fail the first season.

Steve Round confirmed that whilst promotion would have been great it wasn't the remit for his first season, given that he took over with us in the relegation spots.

But who cares about facts when it contributes to a 'good story'.

It would be painfully ironic if we got a new Manager in and they return us to the shambles we were pre-Bruce.

 

I think people have forgotten how bad we were, we weren't just 'lose a playoff final 1-0' bad, we were 'don't even bother watching it cos you know it's going to be embarrassing' bad.

 

It's gotten to the point where I kind of hope SB does walk just so this thread can piss off and die the death it should have died long ago.

[TheAuthority]

The financial turmoil surrounding the club is going to negatively impact the team whoever is in charge. That's the most depressing thing.

[DCJonah]

29 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

He actually didn't fail the first season.

Steve Round confirmed that whilst promotion would have been great it wasn't the remit for his first season, given that he took over with us in the relegation spots.

But who cares about facts when it contributes to a 'good story'.

It would be painfully ironic if we got a new Manager in and they return us to the shambles we were pre-Bruce.

 

I think people have forgotten how bad we were, we weren't just 'lose a playoff final 1-0' bad, we were 'don't even bother watching it cos you know it's going to be embarrassing' bad.

 

It's gotten to the point where I kind of hope SB does walk just so this thread can piss off and die the death it should have died long ago.

A few games in those first 11 under RDM when we absolutely smashed teams but just couldn't finish or let down with an error. Certainly not what you've exaggerated. 

But who cares about facts when it contributes to a good story.

[DCJonah]

1 hour ago, lexicon said:

Another way of looking at it is is that Bruce has improved us consistently since he has been with us, with the improved league finishes being evidence of that. 

But you know, potato face and grr etc. 

Given the resources he had, you think that's all we should expect?

What an easy ride. We are becoming the steve bruce charity. 

 

[Dave J]

7 hours ago, sne said:

Not impossible at all, and would not blame him one bit.

As long as he doesn't wait until the last minute in doing so.

Why no blame ? I certainly would blame him for messing up in consecutive seasons and then walk away with a finger in ears attitude - yes I want him gone - but I also want him to recognise and admit he did not achieve the task that he took on - that's my view anyway 

[Dave J]

43 minutes ago, bannedfromHandV said:

He actually didn't fail the first season.

Steve Round confirmed that whilst promotion would have been great it wasn't the remit for his first season, given that he took over with us in the relegation spots.

But who cares about facts when it contributes to a 'good story'.

It would be painfully ironic if we got a new Manager in and they return us to the shambles we were pre-Bruce.

 

I think people have forgotten how bad we were, we weren't just 'lose a playoff final 1-0' bad, we were 'don't even bother watching it cos you know it's going to be embarrassing' bad.

 

It's gotten to the point where I kind of hope SB does walk just so this thread can piss off and die the death it should have died long ago.

He did fail - otherwise why would the club have sacked RDM after only 11 games if promotion was not on the remit - I'll stand corrected but I'm sure someone on here just a few weeks back confirmed that Bruce himself said that promotion was still the aim when he was unveiled as manager and quite frankly I'd have been pretty fuming with the club if this was not the ambition  and even if this was not said publicly I'm pretty certain it would have been said in private - I doubt RDM's compensation package would have been cheap.

[lexicon]

5 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Given the resources he had, you think that's all we should expect?

What an easy ride. We are becoming the steve bruce charity. 

 

Taking everything into consideration and not just resources, I think he's done OK and sacking him would be a foolish move in our current predicament.  

[briny_ear]

54 minutes ago, Dave J said:

He did fail - otherwise why would the club have sacked RDM after only 11 games if promotion was not on the remit - I'll stand corrected but I'm sure someone on here just a few weeks back confirmed that Bruce himself said that promotion was still the aim when he was unveiled as manager and quite frankly I'd have been pretty fuming with the club if this was not the ambition  and even if this was not said publicly I'm pretty certain it would have been said in private - I doubt RDM's compensation package would have been cheap.

 Seriously, what is the point in still being angry about stuff that happened at the beginning of the season before last? Given the nightmare the club is going through right now, this is about the least important topic anyone could find to debate.

For what it’s worth, whatever was said in public in the wake of RDM’s departure, it was deluded to think we were going to get promotion, with nearly a third of the season gone, with Villa in the relegation zone with one win to our name and apparently a squad that was clueless about winning matches.

But really, what does it matter?

[sne]

1 hour ago, Dave J said:

Why no blame ? I certainly would blame him for messing up in consecutive seasons and then walk away with a finger in ears attitude - yes I want him gone - but I also want him to recognise and admit he did not achieve the task that he took on - that's my view anyway 

What I meant is I would not blame him if he resigned considering the club is shambles.

I certainly blame him among others for failing to get us promoted and leaving the squad in this current state.

[TheStagMan]

6 hours ago, kiltorken said:

I didnt cherry-pick a moment, I picket the moment he started the job, there is a considerable difference.

 

You miss the point entirely. It was a moment in time you chose to make a point. It is no more or less valid than a moment in time when were are 4 points off the playoff places for example.

[villa89]

4 hours ago, lexicon said:

Another way of looking at it is is that Bruce has improved us consistently since he has been with us, with the improved league finishes being evidence of that. 

But you know, potato face and grr etc. 

Indeed but I would argue that given the wage bill and the support in the transfer market he's failed to improve us enough in both his seasons here. It just depends what your point of view is. 

[Dave J]

1 hour ago, briny_ear said:

 Seriously, what is the point in still being angry about stuff that happened at the beginning of the season before last? Given the nightmare the club is going through right now, this is about the least important topic anyone could find to debate.

For what it’s worth, whatever was said in public in the wake of RDM’s departure, it was deluded to think we were going to get promotion, with nearly a third of the season gone, with Villa in the relegation zone with one win to our name and apparently a squad that was clueless about winning matches.

But really, what does it matter?

I'm not fuming now - clearly that was some time back and spoken in half jest also - although I will not mask the truth and say again that I really believe his first season remit was play - offs - also you speak of delusion but did Roy Keane not take a bottom placed Sunderland up in a similar time frame ? 

He failed in his objectives imo - yes he is a genuine football man with his heart on his sleeve and a likeable guy also - but we have to accept that football has moved on significantly - you only need to look at 2 of the 3 teams that went up to tell you this much.

[srsmithusa]

3 hours ago, briny_ear said:

 Seriously, what is the point in still being angry about stuff that happened at the beginning of the season before last? Given the nightmare the club is going through right now, this is about the least important topic anyone could find to debate.

For what it’s worth, whatever was said in public in the wake of RDM’s departure, it was deluded to think we were going to get promotion, with nearly a third of the season gone, with Villa in the relegation zone with one win to our name and apparently a squad that was clueless about winning matches.

But really, what does it matter?

to me it matters because another poster falsely claimed he didn't fail.  In his quotes at the times, his task was to get promoted.  It's been linked in this thread multiple times.

Revisionist history is only one of the tools used by those who protect Bruce.  The man is given more excuses than the desert has sand.  

 

[Stratvillan]

Think the question needs to change. It's no longer should Bruce have got us promoted. The new question should be, given the fact we have no money should we change manager? A top manager is not coming to us. 

[DCJonah]

4 hours ago, lexicon said:

Taking everything into consideration and not just resources, I think he's done OK and sacking him would be a foolish move in our current predicament.  

I think he has done ok. But he has still failed. 

Sacking him now would be crazy. We have no plan going forward so doesn't matter who is the manager. He will be gone soon enough though. 

[villabromsgrove]

I think we're faced with a bit of a conundrum.

Bruce by his own admission believes that if you buy enough experienced older players, wrap them up in cotton wool during weekly training and send then out onto the pitch on match days to sort it out among themselves, they will use the vast amount of experience that they have collectively and get the job done. I didn't enjoy last season's football, but I'll admit that it almost worked. However, we've now lost Terry and we will almost certainly lose Chester. Samba has gone, Taylor has been found wanting and we have no first choice keeper. Others will also leave unfortunately. 

At this point common sense should say, "thanks for your efforts Steve, but we don't have the money to bring in higher waged older heads in order to go again with your same tactics this season," we're going to have to bring in a (cheaper) coach like Dean Smith who is used to getting the best out of young improving players ....  but .... and here's the conundrum .... we can't afford the three million quid that it would cost to sack Bruce and replace him!

 

[kiltorken]

4 hours ago, TheStagMan said:

 You miss the point entirely. It was a moment in time you chose to make a point. It is no more or less valid than a moment in time when were are 4 points off the playoff places for example.

I didn't miss my own point actually, objectives when Bruce took the job when we were just above the relegation zone on the back of 50 games with 4 wins was surely to steady the ship and try and get a respectable league position, getting the playoffs at that point would have been a very unexpected bonus in most people's eyes and that is the reason why it's "more valid",  he met the objective of steadying the ship, it's not his fault people got overly hopeful after one decent string of results before Christmas and decided playoffs were the new minimum. 

It's a good job we didn't get Chris Coleman in. 

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

If we get rid of Bruce maybe we should go for Phil Parkinson. Did an amazing job keeping Bolton in the league. I think we’re going to need a similar job next season. 

[Jareth]

With a takeover looking more likely, yer know, it is possible they don't retain Bruce. New owners = all bets are off. The reckless part of me would like a management change in that situation, so long as it's more Bielsa than Dean blumin Smith.