Popular Post sne Posted June 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, wilko154 said: I believe some people on this forum want Bruce to fail just to be proven right... He already has, twice. There would be no satisfaction what so ever in seeing us fail once again. 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAMAICAN-VILLAN Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 11 minutes ago, wilko154 said: I believe some people on this forum want Bruce to fail just to be proven right... 3 minutes ago, sne said: He already has, twice. There would be no satisfaction what so ever in seeing us fail once again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 18 minutes ago, wilko154 said: I believe some people on this forum want Bruce to fail just to be proven right... He has failed. Edited June 26, 2018 by jim 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wilko154 Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 10 minutes ago, sne said: He already has, twice. There would be no satisfaction what so ever in seeing us fail once again. The first season we wouldn't have gone up with Pep Guardiola in charge, the club was an absolute shambles from the previous regime. The second season we missed out on promotion by one game at Wembley, a lottery game. Once again the club is falling apart and realistically finishing in the top two is off the cards. We should all be getting behind the manager ahead of the season and hoping he can do what he has done with clubs with a much smaller budget previously. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post sne Posted June 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 minute ago, wilko154 said: The first season we wouldn't have gone up with Pep Guardiola in charge, the club was an absolute shambles from the previous regime. The second season we missed out on promotion by one game at Wembley, a lottery game. Once again the club is falling apart and realistically finishing in the top two is off the cards. We should all be getting behind the manager ahead of the season and hoping he can do what he has done with clubs with a much smaller budget previously. We were 7 points off play off spot with 27 or so games to play in December. The we bought in a whole new midfield and started playing Hogan as a target man and it all collapsed. It was very much doable in the first season, partly down to the initial improvements after Bruce stepped in. Then we bottled it. Second season we should have finished top 2, no if's or but's. We also failed to build a team we can use going forward due to the short term build last season. another failure. To think people wanted this to happen to be right on a fan forum? Yeah, just no. 7 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2018 Bruce has failed, so he will always fail. Alrighty then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 32 minutes ago, sne said: We were 7 points off play off spot with 27 or so games to play in December. The we bought in a whole new midfield and started playing Hogan as a target man and it all collapsed. It was very much doable in the first season, partly down to the initial improvements after Bruce stepped in. Then we bottled it. Second season we should have finished top 2, no if's or but's. We also failed to build a team we can use going forward due to the short term build last season. another failure. To think people wanted this to happen to be right on a fan forum? Yeah, just no. I think he’s done good things. I think he got us close. I think he’s instilled some important characteristics. I think he’s improved us, and I think since October our Form, as a whole, was fine. I am ambivalent whether he stays or goes, I can see arguments either way. But, regardless of that, I’m not sure how anyone can reasonably disagree with anything you’ve said there. 3 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 25 minutes ago, sne said: We were 7 points off play off spot with 27 or so games to play in December. The we bought in a whole new midfield and started playing Hogan as a target man and it all collapsed. It was very much doable in the first season, partly down to the initial improvements after Bruce stepped in. Then we bottled it. Second season we should have finished top 2, no if's or but's. We also failed to build a team we can use going forward due to the short term build last season. another failure. To think people wanted this to happen to be right on a fan forum? Yeah, just no. I think its beyond the realms or rational thought to say that Bruce failed by not getting us promoted in his first season. Had he got us promoted that year he would have surely been nominated for world manager of the year with a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches. While there is validity to the arguement that he failed in his second season, you completely overlook the many improvements under him since he took the job. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted June 26, 2018 Author Share Posted June 26, 2018 1 hour ago, sne said: Not impossible at all, and would not blame him one bit. As long as he doesn't wait until the last minute in doing so. Not impossible? I tjink some are in for a rude awakening once the season starts. Cant see us being anywhere as good as this year no matter who is in charge Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 14 minutes ago, kiltorken said: I think its beyond the realms or rational thought to say that Bruce failed by not getting us promoted in his first season. Had he got us promoted that year he would have surely been nominated for world manager of the year with a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches. While there is validity to the arguement that he failed in his second season, you completely overlook the many improvements under him since he took the job. The trouble is, when you boldly declare “ it’s beyond the realms of rational thought” you are actually insulting other people’s intelligence. So. After 23 games in Bruce’s first season, at the halfway stage, we had 34 Points, which was 6 Points, and 4 places, off a Play Off place. Fulham had 2 more Points than us and finished in a Play Off place. (We spent pretty big money in the window that followed as well, by the way). Now, there were certainly issues with the Club, which some may think are sufficient mitigation for not achieving a Play Off place, and some may not. But really, “beyond the realms of rational thought “ ?....... 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jim Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 39 minutes ago, kiltorken said: I think its beyond the realms or rational thought to say that Bruce failed by not getting us promoted in his first season. Had he got us promoted that year he would have surely been nominated for world manager of the year with a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches. While there is validity to the arguement that he failed in his second season, you completely overlook the many improvements under him since he took the job. Beyond the realms of rational thought? Behave yourself! We were six points off the playoffs with over 20 games left, plus he spent a small fortune in the January window to add players he wanted. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srsmithusa Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 (edited) 5 hours ago, wilko154 said: I believe some people on this forum want Bruce to fail just to be proven right... I believe some people on this forum want him to stay just so they have an unlikely chance of still being right in the future despite all evidence to the contrary. I still think we would be better without him. He didn't succeed with experienced players and big money contracts (he chose to play) at a big club. So now we hope he will succeed with inexperience, no money at a faltering club. Yeah, lets all pretend we think that's a good plan. I don't want him to fail as long as he's here, never have, but I don't really want him here, either. Edited June 26, 2018 by srsmithusa 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jareth Posted June 26, 2018 VT Supporter Share Posted June 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, srsmithusa said: I believe some people on this forum want him to stay just so they have an unlikely chance of still being right in the future despite all evidence to the contrary. In all honesty, for me it's because I think we can build on last season, despite the financial stuff - minority view but I'd probably give him 2 more seasons min. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 33 minutes ago, terrytini said: The trouble is, when you boldly declare “ it’s beyond the realms of rational thought” you are actually insulting other people’s intelligence. I'm sure other people are adults and can cope with some criticism of opinions. 46 minutes ago, terrytini said: After 23 games in Bruce’s first season, at the halfway stage, we had 34 Points, which was 6 Points, and 4 places, off a Play Off place. Fulham had 2 more Points than us and finished in a Play Off place. (We spent pretty big money in the window that followed as well, by the way). It's easy to cherry pick one particular moment during that season where we sort of close to the last playoff spot after a particularly good run (ignoring the 4 or five teams between us and 6th at the time, who could also accumulate points in the second half of the season), the club had a losing mentality drilled into it for the previous 5 seasons before that, if not irrational then it is extremely naive to think that same team could have completely u-turned and gone on the steamroll the league and not only that but that it was a failure not to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post TheStagMan Posted June 26, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted June 26, 2018 7 minutes ago, kiltorken said: I'm sure other people are adults and can cope with some criticism of opinions. It's easy to cherry pick one particular moment during that season where we sort of close to the last playoff spot after a particularly good run (ignoring the 4 or five teams between us and 6th at the time, who could also accumulate points in the second half of the season), the club had a losing mentality drilled into it for the previous 5 seasons before that, if not irrational then it is extremely naive to think that same team could have completely u-turned and gone on the steamroll the league and not only that but that it was a failure not to do so. Hmmmm..... a team that was 2 points above the relegation zone and. had managed 4 league wins in the preceding 50 league matches yet that is exactly what you did, conveniently ignoring the investment available and the talent at his disposal....... Yet for some reason your cherry-picked moment in the season is somehow more valid. The second season we missed out on promotion by one game at Wembley, a lottery game Dear oh Dear. The FAILURE here is being in a position where one goal in one game ruined or saved us. We should not have been in the playoffs - we should have been heading for automatic. Bruce has failed twice First season he could and should have got us to the playoffs, this season he could and should have got automatic. I don't want to see him fail a third time. Unfortunately that looks like what we are going to be stuck with - although actually if his target is "don't get relegated" then I do have confidence that he will achieve that. 4 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 6 minutes ago, TheStagMan said: yet that is exactly what you did, conveniently ignoring the investment available and the talent at his disposal....... Yet for some reason your cherry-picked moment in the season is somehow more valid. I didnt cherry-pick a moment, I picket the moment he started the job, there is a considerable difference. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 28 minutes ago, kiltorken said: I'm sure other people are adults and can cope with some criticism of opinions. It's easy to cherry pick one particular moment during that season where we sort of close to the last playoff spot after a particularly good run (ignoring the 4 or five teams between us and 6th at the time, who could also accumulate points in the second half of the season), the club had a losing mentality drilled into it for the previous 5 seasons before that, if not irrational then it is extremely naive to think that same team could have completely u-turned and gone on the steamroll the league and not only that but that it was a failure not to do so. Whether people can cope isn’t the point, and it’s nothing to do with different opinions. “It’s beyond the realms of rational thought” is not an opinion of the issue, it’s a comment about people who have a different view to you. It’s just another way ofvsaying “ anyone who thinks that is irrational”, which in turn is a way of attacking people’s mental state. If I was to say “ your views are expressed as poorly as those of a pre school infant” I can’t say that’s an opinion, it’s an insult ( whether to you or prevschool children is up to the reader to decide). Anyway. I’ve not cherry picked anything. I’ve just said where we were at halfway, as opposed to you saying where we were after 11 games and where we were the season before. I stated clearly that people may or may not think there were mitigating factors, so I’m not sure why you then wrote as if I’d not said that. Again, “ it’s naive” ......there you go again. How about if I say it’s naive to think it can’t be done ? Ner ner ner ner ner. It isn’t naive. It’s just a different view to yours. At the time Bruce, the Club, and every Villa fan I knew, thought we had a good chance. All naive ? You don’t think Bruce’s first season was a failure, because getting promoted wasn’t on the table. Many others agree with you. But many others think Bruce messed up after Christmas in selection, tactics, style, approach, and so on. For my part I think he did inherit quite a mess ( although I don’t recall any of those who say that now applying it to RDM), and I think he’s done a decent job, but I also think he contributed significantly to our poor results in the second part of the season with over caution ( Ipswich at Home a classic). Whether or not he “ failed” as such, he certainly, as a matter of fact, failed to capitalise on the position we were at at Christmas. The fact that you happen to think the circumstances meant he did ok does not mean you are either “ right”, nor that I need a straight jacket. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrytini Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 4 minutes ago, kiltorken said: I didnt cherry-pick a moment, I picket the moment he started the job, there is a considerable difference. Ok. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kiltorken Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 30 minutes ago, terrytini said: 1 hour ago, kiltorken said: Whether people can cope isn’t the point, and it’s nothing to do with different opinions. “It’s beyond the realms of rational thought” is not an opinion of the issue, it’s a comment about people who have a different view to you. It’s just another way ofvsaying “ anyone who thinks that is irrational”, which in turn is a way of attacking people’s mental state. If I was to say “ your views are expressed as poorly as those of a pre school infant” I can’t say that’s an opinion, it’s an insult ( whether to you or prevschool children is up to the reader to decide). Anyway. I’ve not cherry picked anything. I’ve just said where we were at halfway, as opposed to you saying where we were after 11 games and where we were the season before. I stated clearly that people may or may not think there were mitigating factors, so I’m not sure why you then wrote as if I’d not said that. Again, “ it’s naive” ......there you go again. How about if I say it’s naive to think it can’t be done ? Ner ner ner ner ner. It isn’t naive. It’s just a different view to yours. At the time Bruce, the Club, and every Villa fan I knew, thought we had a good chance. All naive ? You don’t think Bruce’s first season was a failure, because getting promoted wasn’t on the table. Many others agree with you. But many others think Bruce messed up after Christmas in selection, tactics, style, approach, and so on. For my part I think he did inherit quite a mess ( although I don’t recall any of those who say that now applying it to RDM), and I think he’s done a decent job, but I also think he contributed significantly to our poor results in the second part of the season with over caution ( Ipswich at Home a classic). Whether or not he “ failed” as such, he certainly, as a matter of fact, failed to capitalise on the position we were at at Christmas. The fact that you happen to think the circumstances meant he did ok does not mean you are either “ right”, nor that I need a straight jacket. You seem like a genuinly nice person, I apologise for insinuating that you shoud be put in a straight-jacket. I hope we can laugh about all of this in years to come. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dodgyknees Posted June 26, 2018 Share Posted June 26, 2018 3 hours ago, wilko154 said: The first season we wouldn't have gone up with Pep Guardiola in charge, the club was an absolute shambles from the previous regime. The second season we missed out on promotion by one game at Wembley, a lottery game. Once again the club is falling apart and realistically finishing in the top two is off the cards. We should all be getting behind the manager ahead of the season and hoping he can do what he has done with clubs with a much smaller budget previously. We missed out on promotion by more than one game, before missing our on winning the play offs by one game. We didn't JUST lose one game and fail, it was because we failed to get top two. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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