Jonathan Kodjia

[The Fun Factory]

Some of the criticism the guy gets is ridiculous. He if was not for his goals we would be in the brown stuff. To have a nearly 1 in 2 strike rate for a mid table championship side that averages barely a goal a game is pretty good going. 

[lapal_fan]

His goals always seem important.

As I say for creative attackers, particularly in this division where you cannot feasibly ask for the best, all the time - you have to take the rough with the smooth. 

He's a lot easier on the eye than Chris Woods for example.

[Guest av1]

3 minutes ago, The Fun Factory said:

Some of the criticism the guy gets is ridiculous. He if was not for his goals we would be in the brown stuff. To have a nearly 1 in 2 strike rate for a mid table championship side that averages barely a goal a game is pretty good going. 

There are 15 teams in the championship that contain players that have scored 10 or more goals, so 13 goals isn't fantastic and we wouldn't be in the brown stuff at all without them. This idea that we lose 13 goals without him is daft. Are you suggesting that an alternative signing would not have scored or created anything?

There are 29 strikers in the championship that have scored at least 9 goals. And unlike Kodjia they probably don't mind passing to a team mate, and have therfore helped to created more goals for their team mates. 

And do you not think that the reason we average barely a goal a game is due to the fact Kodjia will not pass a football?

[Guest av1]

9 minutes ago, lapal_fan said:

His goals always seem important.

As I say for creative attackers, particularly in this division where you cannot feasibly ask for the best, all the time - you have to take the rough with the smooth. 

He's a lot easier on the eye than Chris Woods for example.

Easy on the eye?

Chris Wood has scored 22 goals btw. 

[DCJonah]

4 minutes ago, av1 said:

There are 15 teams in the championship that contain players that have scored 10 or more goals, so 13 goals isn't fantastic and we wouldn't be in the brown stuff at all without them. This idea that we lose 13 goals without him is daft. Are you suggesting that an alternative signing would not have scored or created anything?

There are 29 strikers in the championship that have scored at least 9 goals. And unlike Kodjia they probably don't mind passing to a team mate, and have therfore helped to created more goals for their team mates. 

And do you not think that the reason we average barely a goal a game is due to the fact Kodjia will not pass a football?

No. 

Did Hourihane miss because kodjia didn't pass the ball?

Did the endless chances we created against Rotherham end up missed or saved because kodjia wouldn't pass the ball?

I think that's a ridiculous statement. Now I'm not saying he couldn't have helped create a few more but there's much more issues than Kodjia's passing ability to blame for our lack of goals. 

I think that's utter madness to put such blame on him. 

[Guest av1]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

No. 

Did Hourihane miss because kodjia didn't pass the ball?

Did the endless chances we created against Rotherham end up missed or saved because kodjia wouldn't pass the ball?

I think that's a ridiculous statement. Now I'm not saying he couldn't have helped create a few more but there's much more issues than Kodjia's passing ability to blame for our lack of goals. 

I think that's utter madness to put such blame on him. 

But you are picking isolated instances, I'm talking about his overall contribution and effect on the team. 

What is madness is the idea that we lose 13 goals without him. Its utterly ridiculous because it implies that whoever we played in his place would contribute nothing. No goals, no assist, nothing. 

[Eastie]

1 minute ago, av1 said:

But you are picking isolated instances, I'm talking about his overall contribution and effect on the team. 

What is madness is the idea that we lose 13 goals without him. Its utterly ridiculous because it implies that whoever we played in his place would contribute nothing. No goals, no assist, nothing. 

In gabbys case probably correct

[DCJonah]

13 minutes ago, av1 said:

But you are picking isolated instances, I'm talking about his overall contribution and effect on the team. 

What is madness is the idea that we lose 13 goals without him. Its utterly ridiculous because it implies that whoever we played in his place would contribute nothing. No goals, no assist, nothing. 

Yes I agree to some extent. I certainly think we'd have less goals and less points without him but not nothing. 

The isolated instances show that we have created goal scoring opportunities and failed to take them. They show that our issues are more than just kodjia doesn't always pass. 

[Guest av1]

7 minutes ago, DCJonah said:

Yes I agree to some extent. I certainly think we'd have less goals and less points without him but not nothing. 

The isolated instances show that we have created goal scoring opportunities and failed to take them. They show that our issues are more than just kodjia doesn't always pass. 

Oh yes i argree on that bit, our problems are not all down to kodjia. 

Were i think we disagree is his impact on the team. People used to say guys like Gary Lineker 'offered nothing but goals' but he got away it because he scored buckets loads (I'm not comparing the 2 btw), i just don't think with kodjia that the pros offset the cons. 

[AntrimBlack]

3 hours ago, slowandlow said:

liability defensively from corners - played a key role in the joke goal we conceded vs. Barnsley and again yesterday

silly tactic to bring everyone back from corners anyway, particularly when this is amplified by the people we bring back being more of a hindrance than a help

 

Yes. I am a big fan of leaving a fast player up the pitch to occupy a couple of the opposition players.

[kurtsimonw]

3 hours ago, slowandlow said:

liability defensively from corners - played a key role in the joke goal we conceded vs. Barnsley and again yesterday

silly tactic to bring everyone back from corners anyway, particularly when this is amplified by the people we bring back being more of a hindrance than a help

 

Agreed. It also fills the box up a bit more which is even worse with a keeper like Johnstone. You'd be better off with 1/2 players forward and give him the space to come for some corners.

[The Fun Factory]

53 minutes ago, av1 said:

There are 15 teams in the championship that contain players that have scored 10 or more goals, so 13 goals isn't fantastic and we wouldn't be in the brown stuff at all without them. This idea that we lose 13 goals without him is daft. Are you suggesting that an alternative signing would not have scored or created anything?

There are 29 strikers in the championship that have scored at least 9 goals. And unlike Kodjia they probably don't mind passing to a team mate, and have therfore helped to created more goals for their team mates. 

And do you not think that the reason we average barely a goal a game is due to the fact Kodjia will not pass a football?

That is quite frankly utter sash. He does pass the ball. The last time we didn't have a proper goal scorer was when we sold Benteke, didn't replace him with a out and out striker, and got relegated. He is not as good as Benteke but is more than capable at this level. I would say 13 goals is a very decent return so far when that is a third of the total output of a team which has been ripped up and changed halfway through the season, and the bloke is only been here since August. And has been under 2 managers. And was away for a month on international duty.  Utter nonsense. 

 

[Stevo985]

13 minutes ago, AntrimBlack said:

Yes. I am a big fan of leaving a fast player up the pitch to occupy a couple of the opposition players.

I'd argue we should leave two up.

[AntrimBlack]

3 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

I'd argue we should leave two up.

I'm ok with that.

[bobzy]

19 hours ago, The Fun Factory said:

That is quite frankly utter sash. He does pass the ball. The last time we didn't have a proper goal scorer was when we sold Benteke, didn't replace him with a out and out striker, and got relegated. He is not as good as Benteke but is more than capable at this level. I would say 13 goals is a very decent return so far when that is a third of the total output of a team which has been ripped up and changed halfway through the season, and the bloke is only been here since August. And has been under 2 managers. And was away for a month on international duty.  Utter nonsense. 

 

You're ignoring the entire point of the debate here, though.  13 goals is a decent return - no-one is disputing that - and Kodjia is a decent enough goalscorer.  Needs a fair amount of chances, but does score goals.

However, he isn't anywhere near enough aware of what's around him.  He's a similar player to Darren Bent, to me.  He's decent in pretty much every area (good footwork, good strength, decent header of the ball) and will score goals but offers little else.  Both of them will score goals in limited teams and both of them contribute to the limitation by creating **** all for others.

You mention Benteke - just look at the link-up work he had with teammates in his pomp.  Particularly (from memory) goals against Liverpool in the league (linking with Weimann) and Liverpool in the cup semi for Delph's goal.  That's how a striker should operate - if the opportunity isn't there, look for others, don't attempt ridiculous efforts from 30+ yards every time.

I like Kodjia and he's exciting to watch, but it's a big flaw in his game.

Edited March 9, 2017 by bobzy

[HanoiVillan]

11 hours ago, bobzy said:

You're ignoring the entire point of the debate here, though.  13 goals is a decent return - no-one is disputing that - and Kodjia is a decent enough goalscorer.  Needs a fair amount of chances, but does score goals.

However, he isn't anywhere near enough aware of what's around him.  He's a similar player to Darren Bent, to me.  He's decent in pretty much every area (good footwork, good strength, decent header of the ball) and will score goals but offers little else.  Both of them will score goals in limited teams and both of them contribute to the limitation by creating **** all for others.

You mention Benteke - just look at the link-up work he had with teammates in his pomp.  Particularly (from memory) goals against Liverpool in the league (linking with Weimann) and Liverpool in the cup semi for Delph's goal.  That's how a striker should operate - if the opportunity isn't there, look for others, don't attempt ridiculous efforts from 30+ yards every time.

I like Kodjia and he's exciting to watch, but it's a big flaw in his game.

Just like with Bruce though, the problem is that people want everything, now. Just a few weeks ago (I can't remember the game), Kodjia was criticised by all and sundry for not passing enough in the final third and poor vision. After that game, he openly said on Twitter that it was a part of his game he was aware needed improvement and that he was working on it in training, and since then he has visibly been trying harder to pass the ball more and be more aware of his teammates. We've played a few different systems in recent weeks and his brand new strike partner has since been injured - it's hardly conducive to settled football. 

I just wish people would be more patient - maybe things will click. 

[PaulC]

Without his contribution we'd be fighting relegation and that is why his beyond criticism for me.

[bobzy]

12 hours ago, HanoiVillan said:

Just like with Bruce though, the problem is that people want everything, now. Just a few weeks ago (I can't remember the game), Kodjia was criticised by all and sundry for not passing enough in the final third and poor vision. After that game, he openly said on Twitter that it was a part of his game he was aware needed improvement and that he was working on it in training, and since then he has visibly been trying harder to pass the ball more and be more aware of his teammates. We've played a few different systems in recent weeks and his brand new strike partner has since been injured - it's hardly conducive to settled football. 

I just wish people would be more patient - maybe things will click. 

Yeah, I've only said it's a big flaw in his game - if he's working on it then that's great!

56 minutes ago, PaulC said:

Without his contribution we'd be fighting relegation and that is why his beyond criticism for me.

Well... no?

[PaulC]

He's got to get the balanced right between being too selfish and not because if you take away that individuality you might loose some of player.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

3 hours ago, PaulC said:

Without his contribution we'd be fighting relegation and that is why his beyond criticism for me.

Even Benteke got criticised.

No one is beyond criticism.

It's almost like saying if we finish 21st "We would have been relegated without Steve Bruce so he is beyond criticism".

So someone else could not have done a better job or created a better set of circumstances towards success?

Everyone acknowledges how big his contribution is, and how important he has been.

However for the billionth time, he has also potentially cost us additional points through selfishness and lack of vision.

i have counted at least 3 times where other player only had the goalkeeper to get past if he had released the ball.

That is a potential 9 POINTS on top of what we have now. couple that with 11 - 15 points via goalkeeping errors and you get a better picture.

As has been said prior though, even he has acknowledged this.

Edited March 10, 2017 by JAMAICAN-VILLAN