Ross McCormack

[AvfcRigo82]

15 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Why hold out an olive branch to one person but not another ?

Don't mean to jump in late on this, but fwiw and from what I have seen, he handed Gabby one and the guy has taken it.

He has handed Ross two iirc and he still found himself down under. The gate saga being the first last season, he came back this season for pre-season but he is gone again.

I don't know the in's and out's as to why he was then loaned out but something must have happened or Bruce really really does not rate him or the boat has now long sailed?

For me, I would happy see them both out the door as neither has offered Villa, nor done a damn thing for nearly 2 years now.

Well done for his 15 in 17 ratio down under, still don't want him back at B6 - not for his off field antics, because I do not think neither of them can now consistantly cut it at this level.

[Dave J]

3 hours ago, Stevo985 said:

This has been answered, directly to you, several times but you seem to be ignoring it.

The olive branch was held out to both players.

Gabby took it. Ross didn't.

Gabby took the olive branch and did precisely what? Much as that's hard for you to take - but it's a forum so you are welcome to this point of view.-?but  that is far from the real issue for debate here 

 Ross flies across the world in an effort to change ? Why is this so difficult to understand?  Do you not think that his actions deserve a second chance on the back of this ?

This is not a Ross v Gabby competition  sometimes I feel you think it is -  I just find it bemusing that   player A gets a second chance but not Player B 

[Stevo985]

10 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Gabby took the olive branch and did precisely what? Much as that's hard for you to take - but it's a forum so you are welcome to this point of view.-?but  that is far from the real issue for debate here 

 Ross flies across the world in an effort to change ? Why is this so difficult to understand?  Do you not think that his actions deserve a second chance on the back of this ?

Gabby worked hard, got himself fit and got himself back into the team. From what we know he's been nothing but professional since Bruce arrived.
McCormack has done the opposite. Did he fly across the world in an effort to change? Or did he get sent on loan because the club is sick of his attitude. And no decent team in this country would touch him? By all accounts it's the latter.

He's had a second chance. And a third. This is what you seem to be missing. The olive branch has been dangled in front of him and he hasn't taken it.

10 minutes ago, Dave J said:

This is not a Ross v Gabby competition  sometimes I feel you think it is -  I just find it bemusing that   player A gets a second chance but not Player B 

Are you actually joking?

YOU are the one who keeps bringing Gabby into this. The only reason anyone else is mentioning Gabby is because you keep bringing him up. 
I don't give two shiny shits about Gabby Agbonlahor. He could retire tomorrow for all I care. Neither do I care about a Ross vs Gabby debate. They're both shit and I'd happily see neither of them put a Villa shirt on ever again.

I'm discussing Gabby because you keep bringing him into this conversation. I don't think you actually care about Ross McCormack at all. You just can't get over the fact that Gabby took the second chance he was offered and McCormack didn't. 

Edited January 26, 2018 by Stevo985

[Dave J]

9 minutes ago, Stevo985 said:

Gabby worked hard, got himself fit and got himself back into the team. From what we know he's been nothing but professional since Bruce arrived.
McCormack has done the opposite. Did he fly across the world in an effort to change? Or did he get sent on loan because the club is sick of his attitude. And no decent team in this country would touch him? By all accounts it's the latter.

He's had a second chance. And a third. This is what you seem to be missing. The olive branch has been dangled in front of him and he hasn't taken it.

Are you actually joking?

YOU are the one who keeps bringing Gabby into this. The only reason anyone else is mentioning Gabby is because you keep bringing him up. 
I don't give two shiny shits about Gabby Agbonlahor. He could retire tomorrow for all I care. Neither do I care about a Ross vs Gabby debate. They're both shit and I'd happily see neither of them put a Villa shirt on ever again.

I'm discussing Gabby because you keep bringing him into this conversation. I don't think you actually care about Ross McCormack at all. You just can't get over the fact that Gabby took the second chance he was offered and McCormack didn't. 

Stevo - your thoughts and views entirely welcome to them.

Have a jolly nice day 

[Demitri_C]

I think Agnew could help him here maybe like he has helped Hogan? But on the other hand i think we should he get his chance ahead of Davis and RHM? Both should eb ahead of him in my view based his poor attitude 

[weedman]

5 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Gabby took the olive branch and did precisely what? Much as that's hard for you to take - but it's a forum so you are welcome to this point of view.-?but  that is far from the real issue for debate here 

 Ross flies across the world in an effort to change ? Why is this so difficult to understand?  Do you not think that his actions deserve a second chance on the back of this ?

This is not a Ross v Gabby competition  sometimes I feel you think it is -  I just find it bemusing that   player A gets a second chance but not Player B 

If though, and its a big if, Ross comes back with that hunger and desire to get into the team, works his socks off, Steve Bruce has absolutely no reason not to play him. As much as some people like any excuse to complain about him, he's not an idiot, if a player who has proven he can score goals at this level is available to him and willing to bust his nut for the team then Steve Bruce, who has his career to worry about as well, will play him. 

The fact that he hasn't so far is not because of stubborness, its because his head hasn't been right, if that changes I have no doubt we'll see him in the team, but I am not holding my breath. 

You seem very willing to forgive and forget with Ross McCormack though and hell bent on criticising Gabby at every turn, when we got relegated there's no debate from me Gabby was awful, didn't put the effort in and allowed himself to get unfit and ineffective, other than that it was nowhere near as bad as some make out, he went on holiday during time off, and...erm that's about it really. After we went down he has absolutely smashed it to try and make up for that though, he's a runner in his 30s so injuries are taking their toll which may mean he'll never get that opportunity and his career will finish on a sour note which is his own fault really. Ross though IMO has been worse, not only is he every bit as unfit as Gabby was, but he has been missing training for whatever reason, and despite being challenged by the manager to work hard, being given a pre season playing in his position, being at one of the best teams in the league he has shown absolutely no interest in playing for us, to the point that this proven championship goalscorer wasn't even worthy of a place on our bench before being sent out to Australia. 

Not playing well doesn't equal stop trying, Hogan was playing every bit as badly as Ross was but he's never stopped trying, he's fought his way into our team and now is starting to prove himself. Ross...seems to expect to play just because he's Ross McCormack, no effort required 

[Demitri_C]

2 minutes ago, weedman said:

 

Not playing well doesn't equal stop trying, Hogan was playing every bit as badly as Ross was but he's never stopped trying, he's fought his way into our team and now is starting to prove himself. Ross...seems to expect to play just because he's Ross McCormack, no effort required 

Absolutely spot on 

[Dave J]

2 minutes ago, weedman said:

If though, and its a big if, Ross comes back with that hunger and desire to get into the team, works his socks off, Steve Bruce has absolutely no reason not to play him. As much as some people like any excuse to complain about him, he's not an idiot, if a player who has proven he can score goals at this level is available to him and willing to bust his nut for the team then Steve Bruce, who has his career to worry about as well, will play him. 

The fact that he hasn't so far is not because of stubborness, its because his head hasn't been right, if that changes I have no doubt we'll see him in the team, but I am not holding my breath. 

You seem very willing to forgive and forget with Ross McCormack though and hell bent on criticising Gabby at every turn, when we got relegated there's no debate from me Gabby was awful, didn't put the effort in and allowed himself to get unfit and ineffective, other than that it was nowhere near as bad as some make out, he went on holiday during time off, and...erm that's about it really. After we went down he has absolutely smashed it to try and make up for that though, he's a runner in his 30s so injuries are taking their toll which may mean he'll never get that opportunity and his career will finish on a sour note which is his own fault really. Ross though IMO has been worse, not only is he every bit as unfit as Gabby was, but he has been missing training for whatever reason, and despite being challenged by the manager to work hard, being given a pre season playing in his position, being at one of the best teams in the league he has shown absolutely no interest in playing for us, to the point that this proven championship goalscorer wasn't even worthy of a place on our bench before being sent out to Australia. 

Not playing well doesn't equal stop trying, Hogan was playing every bit as badly as Ross was but he's never stopped trying, he's fought his way into our team and now is starting to prove himself. Ross...seems to expect to play just because he's Ross McCormack, no effort required 

Now here's the telling point - yes Gabby was offered an olive branch and rightly so - we all deserve second Chances I am very clear on this point but I do not accept from a performance point of view he has taken this second chance - injuries aside of course. I can only say again what more has McCormack got to do to be afforded the same second chance ?

[rubberman]

I expect Steve and Ross will have a serious talk when he's back.  Maybe Ross can show he's sorted himself out and still has something to offer, maybe whatever has gone on means that the relationship is irreparable.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.

McCormack on form would surely be an asset on the run in, but not at the expense of the squad togetherness.  Bruce knows what he's doing in that area.

[weedman]

2 minutes ago, Dave J said:

Now here's the telling point - yes Gabby was offered an olive branch and rightly so - we all deserve second Chances I am very clear on this point but I do not accept from a performance point of view he has taken this second chance - injuries aside of course. I can only say again what more has McCormack got to do to be afforded the same second chance ?

He has already used up his second chance, brought in for pre season after his failed loan last year, played in the friendlies, yet continued to have a terrible attitude, continued not putting any effort in and just coasting through and was subsequently sent away again. What does he have to do to get another chance? Put a bit of effort in perhaps? And we'll know if he does, because he'll start getting in or around the squad again, if he doesn't, he'll be loaned away again and you'll be in here astonished that devil incarnate Gabby gets given a second chance but holier than thou McCormack isn't

PS - when we say Gabby has taken his chance, it doesn't mean we think he turned into Lionel Messi with a summer of fitness training, but he was finished at Villa, it was only by sheer hard work that he is anywhere remotely near the team, unlike Ross, he wasn't given a pre season to get himself sharp, he didn't get any games and was told by both the manager and the owner that he would never play for us again - he still worked his socks off to get fit so he would be "ready when needed" in spite of this, only when Steve Bruce came in did that hard work get rewarded. If Ross shows that same effort and determination he'll get the same reward, as much as I'd love to be proven wrong as it would be great for Villa to have another proven striker, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one 

[Demitri_C]

4 minutes ago, weedman said:

He has already used up his second chance, brought in for pre season after his failed loan last year, played in the friendlies, yet continued to have a terrible attitude, continued not putting any effort in and just coasting through and was subsequently sent away again. What does he have to do to get another chance? Put a bit of effort in perhaps? And we'll know if he does, because he'll start getting in or around the squad again, if he doesn't, he'll be loaned away again and you'll be in here astonished that devil incarnate Gabby gets given a second chance but holier than thou McCormack isn't

PS - when we say Gabby has taken his chance, it doesn't mean we think he turned into Lionel Messi with a summer of fitness training, but he was finished at Villa, it was only by sheer hard work that he is anywhere remotely near the team, unlike Ross, he wasn't given a pre season to get himself sharp, he didn't get any games and was told by both the manager and the owner that he would never play for us again - he still worked his socks off to get fit so he would be "ready when needed" in spite of this, only when Steve Bruce came in did that hard work get rewarded. If Ross shows that same effort and determination he'll get the same reward, as much as I'd love to be proven wrong as it would be great for Villa to have another proven striker, I wouldn't hold my breath on this one 

I dont like gabby but its hard to argue this as this is exactly how it happened 

[Eastie]

7 minutes ago, rubberman said:

I expect Steve and Ross will have a serious talk when he's back.  Maybe Ross can show he's sorted himself out and still has something to offer, maybe whatever has gone on means that the relationship is irreparable.  I guess we'll find out soon enough.

McCormack on form would surely be an asset on the run in, but not at the expense of the squad togetherness.  Bruce knows what he's doing in that area.

We need to see where the club want to go with this first - whether they are looking to get him out to another club or not - I’d be very surprised if he is reintegrated into the squad .

[rubberman]

22 minutes ago, Eastie said:

We need to see where the club want to go with this first - whether they are looking to get him out to another club or not - I’d be very surprised if he is reintegrated into the squad .

Me too.  I think it's very unlikely, but stranger things have happened...

[bannedfromHandV]

2 hours ago, Dave J said:

To a degree to you right and I did respond to Doug in a similar vein as you allud to - however it was one of those posts that I closed my phone before saving was complete and  I'm afraid the moment had gone.

the point I feel you are not acknowledging is this - I don't  for one moment suggest McCormack has not stepped out of line nor would anyone else I would suggest- but my point is that Gabby also stepped way out of line in my view for what it is worth - feel free to disagree with this point of view if you wish - we could probably argue all weekend as to whose misdeanours we feel are better or worse- but the fact is Ross has flown to the other side of the world got himself fit and could yet play a role ? Gabby do tell - but moreover the basis of my point is simply this - why hold out an olive branch to one person but not another ? This still surprises me somewhat despite what Doug says and I have no reason at all to discount this.

Do you not think in professional sport what McCormack has tried to do is the correct thing to do ? Go out on loan , get fit , score a few goals - is this his way of saying - ok I got it wrong can we not try again please ?

But Dave, the point that you and others to be fair, are failing to grasp is it's not as simple as saying this guy has ability, lets put him in the starting XI, or matchday 18 or whatever. You can have all the ability in the world but (Mario Balotelli) but if your poor attitude outweighs any potential footballing advantages then it's pointless considering integration.

As has been stated, multiple times, we finally have a seemingly solid squad harmony, it only takes one or two bad characters to set us right back to 2 seasons ago again.

Gabby is obviously deemed to be a far less disruptive influence on the squad than this dickhead, and you keep referencing Gabby but when was the last time he even featured?!

[AntrimBlack]

I think Agnew will be working with him one to one, and I would not be surprised to see him reintegrated, particularly if we do not bring in another striker on loan.

[sne]

29 minutes ago, rubberman said:

Me too.  I think it's very unlikely, but stranger things have happened...

 Aston Villa starting Eleven? Stranger Things has indeed happened.

Edited January 26, 2018 by sne

[AntrimBlack]

1 hour ago, weedman said:

 

 Ross...seems to expect to play just because he's Ross McCormack, no effort required 

I never got that impression. It doesn't help when posters just throw out baseless comments.

[markavfc40]

I don't really see where he fits in here now for a couple of reasons.

Firstly during Bruce's time here there seems to be only two players who haven't towed the line and give enough. That is Tshibola and McCormack. The squad seems very settled now, all pulling in the same direction and working hard for each other and I don't think it is worth disrupting that for a player who has stepped out of line more than once under the manager. 

Secondly I am not sure where McCormack would fit into the way we play now. We are playing with a lone striker and McCormack doesn't get about the pitch enough to do that. We then have an advanced midfielder behind and two wide forwards. All three of them work their bollocks off. I can't for a minute see McCormack doing what Grealish does and tracking back, putting tackles in popping up wide left and right.

It was noticeable the one player we have signed this window seems to have a great attitude and I am sure any players coming in now will have to be of the right character as well as ability. With that in mind I don't think trying to reintegrate McCormack back into the squad is worth the risk at this stage as what he can offer ability wise isn't close to being good enough to risk what he could scupper in terms of squad unity if he still has the same lack lustre attitude.

Edited January 26, 2018 by markavfc40

[TRO]

2 hours ago, markavfc40 said:

I don't really see where he fits in here now for a couple of reasons.

Firstly during Bruce's time here there seems to be only two players who haven't towed the line and give enough. That is Tshibola and McCormack. The squad seems very settled now, all pulling in the same direction and working hard for each other and I don't think it is worth disrupting that for a player who has stepped out of line more than once under the manager. 

Secondly I am not sure where McCormack would fit into the way we play now. We are playing with a loan striker and McCormack doesn't get about the pitch enough to do that. We then have an advanced midfielder behind and two wide forwards. All three of them work their bollocks off. I can't for a minute see McCormack doing what Grealish does and tracking back, putting tackles in popping up wide left and right.

It was noticeable the one player we have signed this window seems to have a great attitude and I am sure any players coming in now will have to be of the right character as well as ability. With that in mind I don't think trying to reintegrate McCormack back into the squad is worth the risk at this stage as what he can offer ability wise isn't close to being good enough to risk what he could scupper in terms of squad unity if he still has the same lack lustre attitude.

equally, I think I read somewhere that Hogan was not over struck on him....not sure why?

maybe I dreamt it....but I think he mentioned around the time of his signing and McCormack was on his way out.

 

[Vive_La_Villa]

If he is in a better place mentally and his fitness has improved than I think he could still potentially do a job as cover for Hogan. 

He likes to come deep and link up the play so I think he could thrive in our current system.