sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Genie said: The fishing does seem to be quite a big piece of this puzzle for the EU it seems. We should just pretend to give them the bloody fish. Get Dynamo into it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, Stevo985 said: So do we think No Deal will be announced on Sunday? That's where my money is (metaphorically speaking) It depends. If Boris genuinely didn't want a deal and the whole thing has been a charade then obviously it will be a no deal. If Boris genuinely thought he could get a better deal by playing hard ball instead of rolling over like that pussy footed May, and then realises at the last second that his poker faced hard ball still isn't working, he'll take the bad deal and try to pretend it's a great deal, Victory to us and build himself up as a hero. What there definitely won't be is a good deal for us, that's the only certainty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 The question is how long before someone takes up tha mantle and starts campaigning for a new referendum to take us back in? Will need someone with a lot of conviction and drive, a kind of anti Farage. How many people voted out on the basis of a deal and are now horrified? Even if it wasn't the majority of Brexit Voters, I bet it's easily enough to swing it back. I reckon within 2 years the pleas will start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 26 minutes ago, blandy said: I'm not saying this is my view, but I think there's a way to explain it along these lines: I think the FT get the register and cadence about right here: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, sidcow said: The question is how long before someone takes up tha mantle and starts campaigning for a new referendum to take us back in? Will need someone with a lot of conviction and drive, a kind of anti Farage. How many people voted out on the basis of a deal and are now horrified? Even if it wasn't the majority of Brexit Voters, I bet it's easily enough to swing it back. I reckon within 2 years the pleas will start. It won't happen (though i suppose if the last few years have taught me anything you should never say never!). The rules the EU requires to join these days are a lot tougher to swallow than the conditions the UK left under. For example you would need to adopt the Euro and you wouldn't get the rebate back you had so membership would be more costly. I could potentially see a steady alignment towards a Switzerland style arrangement though. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tumblerseven Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I think there is a rule if you leave its over you cant come back. So you wont be able to join not as United Kingdom. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said: I think there is a rule if you leave its over you cant come back. So you wont be able to join not as United Kingdom. There really isn't. 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Follyfoot Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tumblerseven said: I think there is a rule if you leave its over you cant come back. So you wont be able to join not as United Kingdom. Stick a moustache and false nose on and apply to join as the Knited Uingdom, they will be non the wiser 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bickster Posted December 10, 2020 Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2020 57 minutes ago, ml1dch said: There really isn't. And even if there was, they'd change the rule you'd suspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Davkaus Posted December 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 1 hour ago, sidcow said: The question is how long before someone takes up tha mantle and starts campaigning for a new referendum to take us back in? Will need someone with a lot of conviction and drive, a kind of anti Farage. How many people voted out on the basis of a deal and are now horrified? Even if it wasn't the majority of Brexit Voters, I bet it's easily enough to swing it back. I reckon within 2 years the pleas will start. If even 5% of Leave voters wanted a "soft" Brexit (and I'd wager it was far more than that, because a "hard" brexit was fearmongering a few years ago) what we have seen is the government shouting "will of the people" while enacting anything but that. Regardless of whether you wanted to leave or remain, I think we can all agree that what has happened since the vote is farcical beyond belief. No effort at all was made to find out why Leave voters voted like they did, and what kind of Brexit they wanted. Edited December 10, 2020 by Davkaus 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 9 minutes ago, Davkaus said: If even 5% of Leave voters wanted a "soft" Brexit (and I'd wager it was far more than that, because a "hard" brexit was fearmongering a few years ago) what we have seen is the government shouting "will of the people" while enacting anything but that. Regardless of whether you wanted to leave or remain, I think we can all agree that what has happened since the vote is farcical beyond belief. No effort at all was made to find out why Leave voters voted like they did, and what kind of Brexit they wanted. Except that there were two general elections since the referendum and people kept voting in the party offering the toughest Brexit. The opportunity to change tact via the power of the ballot box was there if the electorate had wanted this process to turn around. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 I think right now if the government set up another referendum and the options were: A - remain B - drink the Kool Aid there would be a majority happy to drink the Kool Aid Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusr Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 10 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I think right now if the government set up another referendum and the options were: A - remain B - drink the Kool Aid there would be a majority happy to drink the Kool Aid 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 15 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: I think right now if the government set up another referendum and the options were: A - remain B - drink the Kool Aid there would be a majority happy to drink the Kool Aid 4 years on from the original referendum the Prime Minister of the UK doesn’t know what leave looks like. Not a single person knows what the result of that action is. If we had another referendum tomorrow the same questions exist, all we know is that we’re going to be closer to the worst case scenario than the best case. Its beyond belief something like this has been allowed to happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 hours ago, Tumblerseven said: I think there is a rule if you leave its over you cant come back. So you wont be able to join not as United Kingdom. There is zero chance they would not welcome the world's 6th largest economy into the club......although we will probably be 7th or 8th by then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HanoiVillan Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 58 minutes ago, Davkaus said: If even 5% of Leave voters wanted a "soft" Brexit (and I'd wager it was far more than that, because a "hard" brexit was fearmongering a few years ago) what we have seen is the government shouting "will of the people" while enacting anything but that. Regardless of whether you wanted to leave or remain, I think we can all agree that what has happened since the vote is farcical beyond belief. No effort at all was made to find out why Leave voters voted like they did, and what kind of Brexit they wanted. 46 minutes ago, LondonLax said: Except that there were two general elections since the referendum and people kept voting in the party offering the toughest Brexit. The opportunity to change tact via the power of the ballot box was there if the electorate had wanted this process to turn around. Well you're both right aren't you. The public voted to leave in 2016, and have reaffirmed that choice at two subsequent general elections. But I think it would be a mistake to assume that's an endorsement of every aspect of the Conservatives' negotiating strategy, and it's clearly true that no effort was spent on understanding the motivations of leave voters. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) The last GE where the Conservatives won a huge majority was largely down to the fact Boris convinced people he had a smooth pathway through Brexit and everything was going to be great. A lot of the votes were to draw a line under it and get on with life. Obviously what he had wasn’t that, it’s an even bigger mess now and he’s thrown it in the bin anyway. Edited December 10, 2020 by Genie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darrenm Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 7 minutes ago, Genie said: The last GE where the Conservatives won a huge majority was largely down to the fact Boris convinced people he had a smooth pathway through Brexit and everything was going to be great. A lot of the votes were to draw a line under it and get on with life. Obviously what he had wasn’t that, it’s an even bigger mess now and he’s thrown it in the bin anyway. Exactly. Get Brexit Done was the only detail they gave and the only detail that was required by the media. Labour on the other hand are always playing on hard mode and had to give every detail about specific trading arrangements they would have in their deal they hadn't yet negotiated with the EU so couldn't know against the 2nd referendum which the members, voters and defectors to other parties demanded. It's a bit like the 2017 general election. Mid campaign changes in policy for the Tories and not a single question about where the money was coming from. Labour's manifesto was picked apart by every non-macro economist demanding to know where every penny was coming from. Slightly off-topic but this is a good read about why https://mainlymacro.blogspot.com/2020/11/how-electoral-system-in-us-and-to.html Quote The UK is often torn between following the US or following Europe. We share a language with the US, and a lot of popular culture. But we also share a voting system that ensures the political right has a heavy built in advantage. The United States may be too far down that road to change, but in the UK there is still hope if only the current opposition leadership see sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post darrenm Posted December 10, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2020 Oh and I saw someone on here trying to claim that the 'oven ready deal' was referring to the withdrawal agreement? That's clearly nonsense. The WA was already sealed by that point and the EU said couldn't be reopened. Therefore Johnson saying they had an 'oven ready deal' as a point of differentiation with Labour couldn't have been referring to something the UK had already done and which would be exactly the same for any other government. It could only have been referring to the FTA/future relationship which is now on the brink of being exposed as not just not oven ready, but not actually existing at all. In any healthy democracy, winning an election on a clear and now proven lie should be grounds for the government being chased out of office. 6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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