blandy Posted December 10, 2020 Author Moderator Share Posted December 10, 2020 4 minutes ago, darrenm said: there is still hope if only the current opposition leadership see sense Not gonna happen then. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, sidcow said: There is zero chance they would not welcome the world's 6th largest economy into the club......although we will probably be 7th or 8th by then. Hi sidcow, bit of a weird question but who exactly do you mean by “they” here? The Commission, the Parliament, the Council, or normal EU citizens? I’m not sure everyone would be excited. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ml1dch Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 39 minutes ago, Enda said: Hi sidcow, bit of a weird question but who exactly do you mean by “they” here? The Commission, the Parliament, the Council, or normal EU citizens? I’m not sure everyone would be excited. Presumably it would be in the context of a UK Government favourable to the idea. So it would likely be broached at leader level on a bilateral basis. Which would then be discussed between other leaders and eventually at Council level. Which in turn, would be dealt with at Commission level and eventually at Parliamentary level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 2 hours ago, darrenm said: Oh and I saw someone on here trying to claim that the 'oven ready deal' was referring to the withdrawal agreement? That's clearly nonsense. It's not nonsense. The thing that was 'oven-ready' was the thing that had already been negotiated between Johnson and the EU, i.e. the WA (as amended including the NI protocol, the NI frontstop rather than the backstop, &c.). That was the only thing which had been decided upon at that point. Though the WA came along with the Political Declaration on the future relationship the latter only set out the framework for the future relationship with instructions to negotiatiors and was not binding. 2 hours ago, darrenm said: The WA was already sealed by that point and the EU said couldn't be reopened. The negotiations on the deal were finished by that point but it had not been agreed by the UK or passed by Parliament. It was presented as an 'oven-ready deal' because it was an agreement already reached that would therefore be passed by the party proposing it if they were returned with a majority (i.e. it was ready to go) - they were and it was. 2 hours ago, darrenm said: Therefore Johnson saying they had an 'oven ready deal' as a point of differentiation with Labour couldn't have been referring to something the UK had already done and which would be exactly the same for any other government. It could only have been referring to the FTA/future relationship This is patent nonsense. Edited December 10, 2020 by snowychap 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Enda Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, ml1dch said: Presumably it would be in the context of a UK Government favourable to the idea. So it would likely be broached at leader level on a bilateral basis. Which would then be discussed between other leaders and eventually at Council level. Which in turn, would be dealt with at Commission level and eventually at Parliamentary level. Well, yes, that's what would have to happen for readmission to occur. It was more the zero resistance bit I found surprising. Will a majority of MEPs agree to let the UK's notoriously obstructionist and euroskeptic representatives back in? Why would they? Turkeys voting for Christmas, maybe. Will every single EU country agree its in their national interest to let the UK in? Many banks have already relocated to Frankfurt, and readmission risks shifting the balance back to London. I can see investment into Ireland thriving as the only English-speaking member, at least for a few years. And that's before we talk about the possibility of a Sinn Fein-led government, who might say No until reunification. What will Croatia, Finland, Belgium want? It's a tricky one. At the moment there's still a minimum of goodwill and the UK has no real enemies in Europe. There is no actual war. Things could turn very sour if Boris decides this is some Churchillian moment. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 “Breaking News” on the BBC. Businesses and the public to prepare for his monumental **** up. Quote Boris Johnson says there is a "strong possibility" the UK will fail to strike a post-Brexit trade agreement with the EU. The prime minister said "now is the time" for businesses and the public to prepare for that outcome, although negotiators would continue talks. He added that negotiations were "not yet there at all". It comes after his meeting on Wednesday with the president of the EU Commission failed to reach a breakthrough. Link Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 4 hours ago, sidcow said: There is zero chance they would not welcome the world's 6th largest economy into the club......although we will probably be 7th or 8th by then. It only needs one country to black ball you. France didn’t want us to join in the first place. We’ve used up a lot of their time and effort and patience. In the theoretical case of us wanting to re join, it’s a minimum of a decade away. However, on the bright side, I’m fairly confident it wouldn’t be new member state Scotland that black balls us. They could be our friend on the inside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
snowychap Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Interesting thread re: the NI protocol and its implementation - incl. the following - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Chindie Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Popular Post Share Posted December 10, 2020 Strong possibility = racing **** certainty. words removed, words removed all. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 4 hours ago, HanoiVillan said: Well you're both right aren't you. The public voted to leave in 2016, and have reaffirmed that choice at two subsequent general elections. But I think it would be a mistake to assume that's an endorsement of every aspect of the Conservatives' negotiating strategy, and it's clearly true that no effort was spent on understanding the motivations of leave voters. 5 hours ago, LondonLax said: Except that there were two general elections since the referendum and people kept voting in the party offering the toughest Brexit. The opportunity to change tact via the power of the ballot box was there if the electorate had wanted this process to turn around. But all that time they've still been telling everyone it will be all right and we get a deal. I'm questioning how much appetite there will be to remain out a couple of years from now when the true horror of what's been done finally dawns on people. The lies will have been truly exposed and we will all be suffering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sidcow Posted December 10, 2020 VT Supporter Share Posted December 10, 2020 I'm really tempted to go back through this forum from the start and give any pro brexiteers some real bloody stick tonight. My kids futures truly **** up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, sidcow said: I'm really tempted to go back through this forum from the start and give any pro brexiteers some real bloody stick tonight. My kids futures truly **** up here. They’ve certainly been a bit quiet of late. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) 10 minutes ago, LondonLax said: They’ve certainly been a bit quiet of late. A few of the vocal ones on my Facebook feed have been extremely quiet recently. Update: I just had a look at the thick Brexit types I have hidden from my feed, they’re all declaring that they aren’t having the vaccine. Who’d have thought it? Vocal about Brexit being a good idea and also vocal about the vaccine being dangerous. I remember the studies saying that those with lower education levels in general voted Brexit. Now from my own research that same population are also the “no vaccine” group. Thick / Brexit / anti-vax = same group Edited December 10, 2020 by Genie 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Davkaus Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 24 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It only needs one country to black ball you. France didn’t want us to join in the first place. We’ve used up a lot of their time and effort and patience. In the theoretical case of us wanting to re join, it’s a minimum of a decade away. However, on the bright side, I’m fairly confident it wouldn’t be new member state Scotland that black balls us. They could be our friend on the inside. From an EU perspective, it'd be quite good news for the first state to have left to realise it was a mistake and return. I can't see it happening though, because we'd almost certainly only have the option to rejoin on worse terms than we left with. We had a very privileged position that I can't imagine they'd want to let us have again, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LondonLax Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 33 minutes ago, chrisp65 said: It only needs one country to black ball you. France didn’t want us to join in the first place. We’ve used up a lot of their time and effort and patience. In the theoretical case of us wanting to re join, it’s a minimum of a decade away. However, on the bright side, I’m fairly confident it wouldn’t be new member state Scotland that black balls us. They could be our friend on the inside. The Scots don’t seem so keen on independence once the practical realities are spelt out. A bit like Brexit really, all the jingoistic flag waving is great until you get into the mundane issues of how trade, borders and finance are actually going to operate in the brave new world. Quote Poll: Most Scots would reject independence after considering issues Scots are less likely to support independence if there is a risk of losing the pound and a hard border with England, a new poll has revealed. https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 (edited) Quote Boris Johnson has claimed the UK could get through a no-deal Brexit, but said that outcome would represent a "failure of statecraft" by all concerned. The Prime Minister, in Dublin for talks with Irish Prime Minister Leo Varadkar, said he believed it was possible to get a new Brexit agreement by October 18. Speaking in Ireland, Mr Johnson insisted he wanted "to find a deal." He continued: "I have looked carefully at no-deal. "Yes, we could do it, the UK could certainly get through it, but be in no doubt that outcome would be a failure of statecraft for which we would all be responsible," he said. Mr Johnson has previously said he can only agree to a deal if the backstop is removed, but Mr Varadkar told him "in the absence of agreed alternative arrangements, no backstop is no-deal for us". Following the meeting, a British-Irish joint statement was released, which said the two leaders had a constructive meeting and "common ground was established" but "significant gaps remain". ITV News September 2019 Edited December 10, 2020 by Genie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StefanAVFC Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 Just now, Genie said: It's the same as always though innit? Publicly ra ra'ing and talking up britain then by the same token making plans to blame the EU for no deal. Privately they know it's a disaster, publicly they sell that's it's the best option to cling to power. Sickening really Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chrisp65 Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 5 minutes ago, LondonLax said: The Scots don’t seem so keen on independence once the practical realities are spelt out. A bit like Brexit really, all the jingoistic flag waving is great until you get into the mundane issues of how trade, borders and finance are actually going to operate in the brave new world. https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-most-scots-would-reject-independence-after-considering-issues-2976093 Great. Shouldn’t be any issue letting them have a referendum then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genie Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 2 minutes ago, StefanAVFC said: It's the same as always though innit? Publicly ra ra'ing and talking up britain then by the same token making plans to blame the EU for no deal. Privately they know it's a disaster, publicly they sell that's it's the best option to cling to power. Sickening really This quote is very annoying "Yes, we could do it, the UK could certainly get through it, but be in no doubt that outcome would be a failure of statecraft for which we would all be responsible," he said. Some more responsible than others Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villakram Posted December 10, 2020 Share Posted December 10, 2020 1 hour ago, snowychap said: Interesting thread re: the NI protocol and its implementation - incl. the following - *** promising *** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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