Relegation Thread Version...99?!

[PussEKatt]

Dont forget we have an owner that demands silly things, like " get rid of the high earners" That equates to " get rid of the best players"

[blandy]

7 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

we have an owner that demands silly things, like " get rid of the high earners"

I don't think that's quite, if at all, true. My perception is that Villa firstly pay high wages, so must therefore be OK with people earning high wages, as long as they are being properly earned. I don't think people sat in the reserves or on the bench, repeatedly, on 60 grand a week are wanted to be kept - but that's not the same thing. getting rid of overpaid wasters is what we all want, isn't it?

[Richard]

10 minutes ago, PussEKatt said:

Dont forget we have an owner that demands silly things, like " get rid of the high earners" That equates to " get rid of the best players"

Not sure that it does equate.  I mean are the high earners the best players? Nzog, Lescott, Richards,  Crappy Ag, Guzan, Sinclair.  I'd say these are the high earners.  I'd want rid of them too

[villanwesty88]

15 hours ago, VillaChris said:

Stourbridge battered Kiddy in the FA cup a few months back.

I think they also beat Kiddy in the FA Trophy too! Stourbridge are good! 

[bobzy]

20 hours ago, villanwesty88 said:

Stranger things have happened! Look at Burton Albion who have a very good chance of being in the same division as us next season. Burton were below the conference as recently as 2002. What a rise!

My "favourite" example of this weird swapping stuff is Bournemouth and Stockport County.

In 2009/10 (just 7 seasons ago!) Bournemouth were in League Two and Stockport were in League One.  Now, Bournemouth are in the Premier League and Stockport are 11th in the Conference North.  Unreal.

 

(As an aside, briny mentioned Solihull Moors doing well in that league - think they win the league if they win their next game.  Nice to see!  I watched Moor Green as a kid and fairly recently went to Damson Park to watch them play then-2nd in the league, North Ferriby.  I think Moors had lost once all season - they promptly lost 1-3 in horrible weather.  Stefan Moore is their starting striker! :D) 

[BOF]

On 06/04/2016 at 22:06, rubberman said:

I 'liked' maqroll's post, though like is so wrong. I hate the fact it's true. I have forewarned the family that my mood will not be great on Sat. 

You'll bounce back, and no that joke will never get old.

[veloman]

I guess this might be the most suitable thread for this comment as it is a direct result of our parlous position. I am told that 'support staff', or some of them , are being called to a meeting on Monday to discuss their futures as a Championship budget presumably won't support the current set-up. What an awful situation  for those involved.

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

Just looked at the table again, this is now really starting to sink in.....

[Heretic]

3 hours ago, bobzy said:

Nice to see!  I watched Moor Green as a kid

 

Me too. Did you see Ian Taylor play for them? He was terrific when he was there. Who knew he'd go on to star for Villa?

[Jimzk5]

2 hours ago, JAMAICAN-VILLAN said:

Just looked at the table again, this is now really starting to sink in.....

I've been expecting relegation since we failed to beat an exceptionally bad Sunderland team   early in the season.

[sne]

I suspected we'd be in trouble when we retained Sherwood over the summer, became even more nervous after the first game against Bournemouth. Even thou we won we were awful.

Got my hopes up a bit when we sacked Sherwood and hired Garde, but that faded pretty fast and like many others I overestimated the quality of the squad. Was clear over the holiday period that this was not going to work.

Been sure of relegation since new year, and even thou our relegation rivals have failed to pull away we still have not been even close to mounting a challenge.

Never thought we'd as bad as this thou, embarrassing doesn't even start to cover it.

Edited April 8, 2016 by sne

[Jimzk5]

13 minutes ago, sne said:

I suspected we'd be in trouble when we retained Sherwood over the summer, became even more nervous after the first game against Bournemouth. Even thou we won we were awful.

Got my hopes up a bit when we sacked Sherwood and hired Garde, but that faded pretty fast and like many others I overestimated the quality of the squad. Was clear over the holiday period that this was not going to work.

Been sure of relegation since new year, and even thou our relegation rivals have failed to pull away we still have not been even close to mounting a challenge.

Never thought we'd as bad as this thou, embarrassing doesn't even start to cover it.

I was fairly confident of having a decent season, I thought the summer buys were a refreshing change to the 1million punts but I thought we were in trouble after we drew 2-2 with Sunderland, who at the time hadn't picked up a point or even scored away from home and had a few hammerings already

that game, and the collapse at Leicester that followed showed just how poor we are as a team and how mentally weak we are.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

6 hours ago, blandy said:

I think that's rather a strange part of your post, the bit quoted. There are 2 big inconsistencies in it, to my reading, Dave. Firstly while it is possible that Randy Lerner "will stop putting money in", it actually does seem a bit of an unsubstantiated claim, based on all the evidence available - he has consistently been putting money in every year, to cover losses and (while maybe not considered enough) to buy players and to spend on the ground etc. His behaviour re the finances has been entirely rational, throughout. It's all the rest of the stuff that has been less wise or rational. it's also, as we have all said,  necessary to get back up again, and this will involve putting money in, if only for the motive of being able to value the club at a price where selling it is viable.

The second point "we are in such a precarious position right now that it's possible we may well get ourselves a vulture", combined with a low current value of the club mean that exhortations for him to sell up ASAP are misplaced, in my opinion.

I think football fan mentality - "get rid of him, sod the risks or the consequences" is understandable. But I wonder if that course of action would actually be the best one. 

His behaviour regarding finances has been anything but rational. He pulled the plug when Paul Lambert came along, the man himself has expressed as much. Yes, Lerner was suffering heavy losses up until that point, but those losses were as a result of his own mismanagement. Instead of a gentle, balanced approach the cut throat way in which the budgets were slashed at that time meant that the team on the pitch was allowed to suffer more than his wallet, entirely why we find ourselves in the position we do now. The approach was not measured, it was manic. 

It is also, as we agree, necessary for him to put even more money in to get us out of the shit hole he flushed us into. I don't feel sorry for him that he has to do that, nor do I think he should be applauded for his losses. Neither do I trust that he will put that money in of his own volition. Hence the protests.

Another reason for the protests -

Quote

To make a public statement indicating that you are once again motivated to sell the club at a price at which Aston Villa can be sold to a person, or persons, with the means and vision to restore this club to its rightful place. You must then follow through on this pledge.

Unsurprisingly, this is my opinion in a nutshell. You could say "who" but I wouldn't have the answer to that. What I do know is it's not a request to "sod the consequences" at all. If we had applied this same logic 10 years ago maybe we would still be stuck with Ellis... maybe we'd be better off. But it's not reason enough to put up with Lerner's bullshit for another decade. Not for me. The risk is worth it because right now and as long as he remains, we are going nowhere but backwards IMO. And I don't love football or this club in order to watch it flounder, I'd rather the lion had balls. 

[Mandy Lifeboats]

Tomorrow could see us one step closer to seeing Barry Bannan back at Villa Park. 

I must go now. I've got to find 6 feet of rope and a sturdy beam.

 

[MikeMcKenna]

6 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Dont forget we have an owner that demands silly things, like " get rid of the high earners" That equates to " get rid of the best players"

It really is a case of history repeating itself.

Following Ellis's return in 1982 he went down a similar road of breaking up our League and European Cup winning squad. Five years and  several shit managers later we were relegated. 

When Lambert arrived Lerner's 'project' began that led to loads of low quality players coming in.  

Several shit managers and five years later were about to be relegated.

Ellis and Lerner - pair of prize clearings in the woods!

AVFC has been very unlucky with owners over the last 3+ decades! 

Edited April 8, 2016 by MikeMcKenna

[JAMAICAN-VILLAN]

1 hour ago, sne said:

I suspected we'd be in trouble when we retained Sherwood over the summer, became even more nervous after the first game against Bournemouth. Even thou we won we were awful.

Got my hopes up a bit when we sacked Sherwood and hired Garde, but that faded pretty fast and like many others I overestimated the quality of the squad. Was clear over the holiday period that this was not going to work.

Been sure of relegation since new year, and even thou our relegation rivals have failed to pull away we still have not been even close to mounting a challenge.

Never thought we'd as bad as this thou, embarrassing doesn't even start to cover it.

Sad thing is, if we were even slightly less than average we wouldn't be in this position. Absolute sewer drain we have been, as everyone has said, typical that when the big money is coming in, we are on the way out.

[Mantis]

7 hours ago, PussEKatt said:

Dont forget we have an owner that demands silly things, like " get rid of the high earners" That equates to " get rid of the best players"

To be fair, many of the high-earners were pretty poor. For every Young or Milner there was a Warnock or Heskey. The intention was never to sell our best players but inevitably they were cherry-picked by other clubs for big money. The problem was that money was invested poorly and in some cases, not invested at all. Even when Lerner was spending big a lot of the money was poorly invested. I'd say that's been our chief problem over the last 10 years.

Edited April 8, 2016 by Mantis

[blandy]

42 minutes ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

His behaviour regarding finances has been anything but rational. He pulled the plug when Paul Lambert came along, the man himself has expressed as much. Yes, Lerner was suffering heavy losses up until that point, but those losses were as a result of his own mismanagement. Instead of a gentle, balanced approach the cut throat way in which the budgets were slashed at that time meant that the team on the pitch was allowed to suffer more than his wallet, entirely why we find ourselves in the position we do now. The approach was not measured, it was manic. 

It is also, as we agree, necessary for him to put even more money in to get us out of the shit hole he flushed us into. I don't feel sorry for him that he has to do that, nor do I think he should be applauded for his losses. Neither do I trust that he will put that money in of his own volition. Hence the protests.

Another reason for the protests -

Unsurprisingly, this is my opinion in a nutshell. You could say "who" but I wouldn't have the answer to that. What I do know is it's not a request to "sod the consequences" at all. If we had applied this same logic 10 years ago maybe we would still be stuck with Ellis... maybe we'd be better off. But it's not reason enough to put up with Lerner's bullshit for another decade. Not for me. The risk is worth it because right now and as long as he remains, we are going nowhere but backwards IMO. And I don't love football or this club in order to watch it flounder, I'd rather the lion had balls. 

I agree he's been inconsistent in terms of football judgement (though you could say consistently poor at it, and I'd agree) re when to spend on players. But he's consistently put money in to the club, is my point - sadly a lot of it has been to make up for bad judgement, but really all I was saying there is his financial input has been there all the time. I'm sure he wants to stop, but I think and believe even that within the constraints allowed by fair play rules he will continue to (have to) finance the club. That's it in a nutshell. I don't think he will stop, so I do see the risk of him stopping as, if not exactly "scaremongering" a lot lower than your post implied.

I don't feel that a "who" is necessary - I think it's fine to ask he makes (continues) efforts to find a good buyer. I agree with that aim. I'd worry where people, (not you) kind of demand he sells for peanuts, purely to get rid of him. That's where the risk would be greater, IMO, than him staying and letting the new people (Hollis etc.) run it with him at a distance.

 

[dont_do_it_doug.]

All fair points @blandy and very difficult to disagree with you. However I will reiterate this, he made a conscious decision around about the time he constructively dismissed O'Neill that he simply didn't want to put any more money in. Now, thanks to how he handled the situation from there he has no choice put to prop the club up. Fact is, he stopped *wanting* to spend money on Aston Villa 5/6 years ago. 

So why on earth did he not put the club up for sale there and then? Shall I tell you what I think? He wanted to make his money back. He stopped being a custodian, he stopped wanting to win and harboured dreams of running a Premier League club on a shoestring whilst he recouped his losses. He got bored of his toy, but instead of handing it on his selfishness got in the way. 

Before it's said by somebody (not you) let me address the point again, not I don't think he deserved to have his money back. That's not how it works. We're a Football Club, not a **** bank. 

[blandy]

1 minute ago, dont_do_it_doug. said:

he made a conscious decision around about the time he constructively dismissed O'Neill that he simply didn't want to put any more money in

Your post - Likewise fair points Dave. Though re the bit I quoted, I don't think that's anything other than a guess, and mine would be different. My guess would be he was fine, to a degree with "putting money in", but not at the same level he had been. And I was fine with that. Others weren't. I said at the time I wanted the club run properly, not to be a "financially doped" thing, where we just had an endless cycle of looking for ever richer owners to take over and spend more. Where RL went badly wrong was in the make up of the board and the decision makers - resulting in lax control, poor decisions, mistakes and losses, so that instead of having reasonable sums to spend on players, it all went on paying off losses and emergency panic buys and pay-offs. Shambolically so.

No I agree he doesn't "deserve" his money back, because he's damaged the thing he bought, bluntly. The reality is that he's going to have a price that he will recover a portion of it - perhaps half, who knows. His decision making has been awful, and he's been unlucky too, and people have let him down. But he exposed himself and the club unduly to the risk of that. I hope that with the new people involved the decision making will improve. I'd take a competent, knowledgeable owner over a rich one every day of the week.