The Randy Lerner thread

[ozvillafan]

The fact that the TV deal ££ is coming surely means that anyone wanting to buy the club does so now so you don't have to pay the inflated price due to larger income. Now is the time to buy a PL club - not next season. 

 

I don't think Lerner sees it like that. 

I don't think investors see it like that either.

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

I keep seeing mention of the price. NOBODY knows what that price is. It's easy to say it's too high, but we don't know that. Nobody knows why the club hasn't been sold, but I'd say there's no appetite for the money pit that is a PL club; this is evident by the fact none have changed hands since 2012.

Protests: I love it how people keep getting all angry on internet forums, and will literally post countless times about their hatred for the owner, but not do anything. How can people accuse Randy of not caring when the only 'care' they show themselves amounts to a few cheap and easy words on the internet. You hate him? You believe we should protest? Go and arrange one. 

i remember you being quite vocal on here about Lambert and how needed to go. How many protests did you start?

Nah, not really. I posted like any disgruntled fan, but it didn't amount to much in the grand scheme pf things. It certainly didn't border on total obsessiveness. If you want, we can compare post count - mine on Lambert vs yours on Lerner? 

So when are the protests, John? 

[Mantis]

Beaten by Southampton reserves tonight who were in league one back in 2011

Just shows you have far we have regressed as a club under this clown thank you Randy

Not really.

Clearly we've fallen behind but Southampton have progressed massively in the last few years and also let's not forget that we played a weaker team under a caretaker manager in a cup we could probably do without.

Not trying to defend Lerner's running of the club because he's made so many mistakes but I just don't get posts like these. I mean, who gives a **** where Southampton were a few years ago? Put it this way, losing to someone like Newcastle would be a lot more embarrassing than losing to Southampton.

Actually, I do... They were playing Crewe and Port Vale and we were fighting for European places five years ago... and now, due to mismanagement and penny pinching by our 'dear leader', the tables have completely flipped...

Not quite. This time 4/5 years ago we were only in a slightly better position than we are now in that we were floating around lower midtable and not really engaged in a proper relegation fight. The vast majority of the change between the two sides has been because of Southampton improving.

I just don't know why people try and use Southampton's improvement as some kind of evidence as to "how far we've fallen"? I'm as unhappy about the state of the club as you are but the fact is Southampton have progressed immensely over the past few years - it's a model we should be following. Why does it matter what Southampton were doing 4 or 5 years ago? They're a top 8 club now and the here and now is all that's important.

[imavillan]

 

 

lapal_fan

this is one of the best posts i have seen on here for a long time, 

its a long post, hence why i have not quoted it all however i would encourage people to read it, page 948

and the answer is yes and more than likely this season !!!

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by imavillan
added more info

[Villarocker]

Regardless of the penny-pinching and other various crimes of the Ellis years, after we came back up to the top flight (yes, I know, it was under him that we went down in the first place), overall, the football was better to watch than the dross served up during Lerner's reign. The players may have had to replace their own shirts but it didn't stop them trying harder than the overpaid dross we have suffered in recent years.

[imavillan]

A totally disinterested owner who is full of clap trap.

Promises promises which are proving to be nothing more than empty.

He is stifling the club, strangling the life out of it. Leadership and direction comes fro the top.

Any successful business has a core strategy, ours appears to be survival. Survival does not = success for Aston Villa.

Six Years of utter dross. The club will not move forward until we have owners who are interested and have a defined strategy.

Proud history bright future my arse.....the Lerner years are nothing to be proud of and as for the future, well!!!!

[blandy]

Beaten by Southampton reserves tonight who were in league one back in 2011

Just shows you have far we have regressed as a club under this clown thank you Randy

firstly to the posts by obe and others re Ellis, no arguments from me he was awful and I wanted him out. Yet despite his awfulness we still managed to be competitive on the pitch , more so than under this owner.

thats why I totally agree with the post I have quoted re Southampton. You see for me I see a lot of people using man citeh when mitigating comments about Lerner.  But his failings are not in the comparison re man citeh ,  that is such an irritating argument.  It is not in not being able to compete with one of the richest man in the world.  It is taking a competitive advantage we had when he bought us and destroying it. Under Ellis we were regularly in the best of the rest bunch, if not towards the top of the best of the rest.  With no disrespect to the likes of Leicester, palace,  West Ham,  Stoke, Swansea and Southampton but totally out of their league both actually and metaphorically. Yes we may not have been able to compete with the top four and for that Ellis's is to blame . We had a chance to be as big as arsenal and he blew it. But that's the same as with Lerner isn't it,  what's change Do? We can't now compete financially for the higher places. Difference is now I can't say it's the next level as in truth it is two or three levels above us.  We are now struggling to catch up with the clubs I have mentioned. They have played to their strengths and moved on. We haven't. We have taken a competitive advantage and destroyed it . 

So yes Ellis may have been bad,  ex may not have spent much if any of his own money and yes he had to leave. But this is why Lerner is worse. It is not solely about money spent year on year it is in terms of guardianship of the club. We are so far behind where we wer it is untrue. Yes unable to compete with the mega bucks clubs, but now unable to compete with clubs worse off than us financially.

That's a very selective and at times incorrect summary of the Ellis years. Basically 3 out of every 4 Ellis seasons we were not "competitive on the pitch" or in the best of the rest bunch. here's the data:-

Ellis took over the club and got it relegated (as we will be relegated this season). We were often a roller-coaster type of club - inconsistent. When he took over after we'd won the European cup our finishing positions went 10th, 10th, 16th, 22nd and relegated, 2nd in Div2 and promoted, 17th, 2nd, 17th, 7th, 2nd, 10th, 18th, then we had finally, had a two seasons in a row in the top 5 (4th and 5th) before slipping back a bit again 7,6,6,8,8 and then 16, 6, 10, 16th in his last year,

So that's 6 top 6 finishes in 23 years, plus one relegation.

None of that is to defend what's happened to the club under Randy Lerner these last few years. It's going to get relegated because he's made dreadful judgement calls and in essence neglected the club and his responsibilities towards it.

Ellis too was a very poor judge and got the club relegated. Where they differ is in the nature of their neglect

Ellis thought he knew best and refused to countenance taking advice or widening out the pool of "expertise" at the club because of arrogance, basically - at least that's how it seemed to me.

Lerner also has consistently not involved (apart from his first year or so here) the right expertise or sought or accepted the advice of people who know and care about the club - not because of any need to prop up his ego like Ellis, but almost because it seems he's just too dumb, to distrustful of anyone else.

I might be being horribly unfair to one or both of them, neither have proved to be over their course of their tenures even half adequate as owners. Yes there are worse, no we're not run by anyone like Oyston at Blackpool, or that tube at Leeds, but they've both in our case used the club for their own aims and both failed to look after it properly, in my eyes.

But it doesn't matter what we think and I don't go to games anymore, don't even watch footy on the telly and very rarely venture into the on topic part of the site. Premier league football is totally broken. Overpriced, over rated, exploitative and uncompetitive.

 

 

[DCJonah]

I keep seeing mention of the price. NOBODY knows what that price is. It's easy to say it's too high, but we don't know that. Nobody knows why the club hasn't been sold, but I'd say there's no appetite for the money pit that is a PL club; this is evident by the fact none have changed hands since 2012.

Protests: I love it how people keep getting all angry on internet forums, and will literally post countless times about their hatred for the owner, but not do anything. How can people accuse Randy of not caring when the only 'care' they show themselves amounts to a few cheap and easy words on the internet. You hate him? You believe we should protest? Go and arrange one. 

i remember you being quite vocal on here about Lambert and how needed to go. How many protests did you start?

Nah, not really. I posted like any disgruntled fan, but it didn't amount to much in the grand scheme pf things. It certainly didn't border on total obsessiveness. If you want, we can compare post count - mine on Lambert vs yours on Lerner? 

So when are the protests, John? 

So what's the cut off point? How many posts is OK and how many is it then fine to mock people and ask why they aren't out protesting? Not hypocritical in the slightest that. If you don't like people posting against the owner why don't you tell us all the good things from him instead of having a go at people?

[Morley_crosses_to_Withe]

No, it's okay. I will just ask again - when are the protests!? You won't be organising any, will you!? You see..two things: I knew the club would deal with Lambert themselves, but you seem to think that Randy is going no where, and that he'll wait around until he can get the right price, but you've said that protests are beneficial because it draws media attention to the correct issue

So where are the protests? 

And also: I don't care. I've attested to not caring. Read over my posts - I've said that I don't mind if we get relegated. I've got better things to worry about than a passive hobby like Aston Villa. You, however, have accused Randy of not caring, but you don't want to do anything other than post countless times in anger about him.

When are your protests or are cheap words enough? When are you going to spend what amounts to 1/5th of your wealth on these protests!? Or don't you wish to waste so much on a football club. 

Edited October 29, 2015 by Morley_crosses_to_Withe

[lloydxmas]

Just spent all week on a course about successful business strategies.

I've come to the conclusion that Randy Lerner is a bloody idiot.

[MrDuck]

Good to see someone's having fun at least.

[DCJonah]

That's convenient. You can post about something you disagree with because you had faith in the club but I have to organise a protest. Jesus you're struggling tonight. 

Haha and your comparison to spending 1/5 of wealth is just as bad. Slight difference between an ordinary guy and a billionaire inheritance. 

There's loads of reasons why I won't be organising a protest, but fair play to people who do and I'm glad there's more and more attention being made of it. If you think that makes my opinion less valid, then I couldn't give a shit. You've openly said you don't care what happens to us so your opinion on the owner means very little.

 

Edited October 29, 2015 by DCJonah

[DCJonah]

Good to see someone's having fun at least.

No, that can't be right. He'd be with us with the banners himself, I've been told this numerous times so it must be true.

And thats why it's fair play to collymore and anyone who puts the pressure on. He needs to be a motivated seller.

Edited October 29, 2015 by DCJonah

[PieFacE]

Good to see someone's having fun at least.

No, that can't be right. He'd be with us with the banners himself, I've been told this numerous times so it must be true.

Are you trying to say Randy isn't actually desperate to sell the club? 

[DCJonah]

Good to see someone's having fun at least.

No, that can't be right. He'd be with us with the banners himself, I've been told this numerous times so it must be true.

Are you trying to say Randy isn't actually desperate to sell the club? 

No I don't think he is. Looks like Tom doesn't think it as well.

[a m ole]

only being devil's advocate but if you're desperately trying to sell something you don't shout about how you're willing to take anything just to get rid of the high risk money vacuum you can't afford to keep afloat. You have to paint it as an attractive proposition or you will never sell it until it really is worth nothing.

[nick76]

The fact that the TV deal ££ is coming surely means that anyone wanting to buy the club does so now so you don't have to pay the inflated price due to larger income. Now is the time to buy a PL club - not next season. 

 

I don't think Lerner sees it like that. 

I don't think investors see it like that either.

Valuations of a business isn't solely based on history which negates the first post.

[Shaw_nuff]

The PL monstrosity is a microcosm of the entire UK property market.

On the surface everything seems rosy - price indices are going up all the time. 

But its a Ponzi or pyramid scheme and eventually you run out of suckers, however willing, able to take part and  prop the whole rotten edifice up. 

Underneath the surface you have near-zero interest rates and funny-money being printed into oblivion. Eventually the taps have to be turned off and interest rates will be forced to rise.

Personally, I hope the whole PL thing implodes so all clubs can get back to a more even footing.

[Richard]

Lol can't swim in the pool we are in so blame the pool.

[Kingman]

How old is that Tom Fox quote?