DCJonah Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 Yeah I agree with that but then on the flipside, because of the money in the game, a team like ourselves should not be relegated in this premier league era. We will be because of lerner. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danceoftheshamen Posted November 22, 2015 Share Posted November 22, 2015 I think the question of whether we come straight back up or not depends on whether we have the same "Leadership" in charge or not. If we do i am 100% certain the decline will just continue regardless of which division we're in. The Championship if anything is even more competitive than the Premier League in my opinion albeit with less quality overall. Well we already would struggle quality wise down there or certainly have no particular advantage but i fear we would be way behind on the competitive side of things. On the plus side if we had leaders with an iota of ambition we should be able to attract some of the best players in that league but with the current incumbents they would just do another accountancy hacking job on us so i'd fear for us unless new owners came in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 7 hours ago, Demitri_C said: worse business man in history. turning a top 6 club into a bottom club within 10 years. useless sack of crap Does the fact that he took us from 17th or whatever to 6th in only 2 years make him the best businessman ever for that period. If anything his business acumen was at its most questionable when we were high in the league and it's most shrewd during more recent times. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCJonah Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 As a business man he's been awful for his entire reign here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Supervillan78 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Every year we get more and more money from Sky and the Premier League but each year he spends less and less. Where's the F@cking money going? It sickens me that we can't even compete financially with the vast majority of clubs in this league, especially the newly promoted teams. When Lerner took control in '06 I really thought we'd be Champions League contenders but instead after just nine years we are Championship certainties. I'm becoming more convinced he's a secret bluenose, because he sure as hell isn't a Villa fan. UTV LERNER OUT!! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa89 Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 The decisions being made at the top have been abysmal for a long time now. From player transfers, new contracts, new managerial contracts, managerial appointments, staff appointments etc. Until that gets changed the decline will continue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Demitri_C Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Lerners been found 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VILLAMARV Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Villarocker Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 Err Randy, how much exactly will the asking price be for Aston Villa Football Club when we are a Championship club? Also, will you be lowering season ticket prices in order to have the famous Villa Park at least half full for next season's home games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 (edited) 21 minutes ago, villarocker said: Also, will you be lowering season ticket prices in order to have the famous Villa Park at least half full for next season's home games? We would get an extra 4 home games which I am sure would be the spin the club would put upon it for season tickets so I very much doubt we would get any such reduction. Edited November 23, 2015 by John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maqroll Posted November 23, 2015 Share Posted November 23, 2015 And it's Randy Lerner Rander Lerner the word removed He's by far the biggest word removed of all the biggest words removed And it's Randy Lerner 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jasoncb Posted November 24, 2015 Share Posted November 24, 2015 People such as Sherwood talked about the losing mentality the players had. Well that only came from one source and that's Randy. When he decided to longer support this premier league club as a premier league club and finance it like a championship club. It was only signing Benteke that we have lasted this long and lets face it, it wasn't like Everton signing Lukaku the guy was unproven in the premier league so partially good fortune. Did he really think he could get away with a net spend of 9mil after last season. Deserves everything that's coming to him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 On 23 November 2015 at 00:13:53, Woodytom said: Does the fact that he took us from 17th or whatever to 6th in only 2 years make him the best businessman ever for that period. If anything his business acumen was at its most questionable when we were high in the league and it's most shrewd during more recent times. Shrewd? The club is rock bottom after 5 years of austerity and incompetence and you claim he's shrewd. Poor Doug must be scratching his head. He only had to break wind and they'd be a fan protest. Lerner humiliates the club for 5 years and he's "shrewd". God help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 8 minutes ago, avfc1982 said: Shrewd? The club is rock bottom after 5 years of austerity and incompetence and you claim he's shrewd. Poor Doug must be scratching his head. He only had to break wind and they'd be a fan protest. Lerner humiliates the club for 5 years and he's "shrewd". God help us. On the matter of Doug, I was always willing to give him some support and though I agree he had his failings I can't entirely blame him for what happened in the early 80s - after he came back as chairman. You might not recall that the Midlands' depression hit the attendances at Villa quite a lot so that even when we won the championship there were times when 25,000 was a good attendance - sometimes a it was a lot less than that. And at a time when the maximum gate was around 48,000. He also inherited the North Stand fiasco and (I think) financial ramifications from the previous incumbant. So, as the attendance money was then the main source of revenue (I'd think) those attendances were not going to support Villa's ambitions - unless Doug put his own money in. I wonder how wealthy he was at that time? At least you knew where you where with Doug ... not this entity who announced a "Bright Future", built a platform for people to stand on and then effectively kicked it away from under their feet! In my book that's what makes him for me more unforgiveable. Anyway ... in the light of the world's calamities, there's a lot more to be concerned about... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
avfc1982 Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 9 minutes ago, John_Lerwill said: On the matter of Doug, I was always willing to give him some support and though I agree he had his failings I can't entirely blame him for what happened in the early 80s - after he came back as chairman. You might not recall that the Midlands' depression hit the attendances at Villa quite a lot so that even when we won the championship there were times when 25,000 was a good attendance - sometimes a it was a lot less than that. And at a time when the maximum gate was around 48,000. He also inherited the North Stand fiasco and (I think) financial ramifications from the previous incumbant. So, as the attendance money was then the main source of revenue (I'd think) those attendances were not going to support Villa's ambitions - unless Doug put his own money in. I wonder how wealthy he was at that time? At least you knew where you where with Doug ... not this entity who announced a "Bright Future", built a platform for people to stand on and then effectively kicked it away from under their feet! In my book that's what makes him for me more unforgiveable. Anyway ... in the light of the world's calamities, there's a lot more to be concerned about... Agree entirely. Doug was Doug and we knew his strengths and failures but he always had the club at heart, but these Lerner bloke has been disgraceful over the last 5 years. He's been like Nero playing on his fiddle while Rome burns, yet where are the fan protests, where are the pressure groups forcing Lerner to wake up to the problems at Villa Park? The club has been in a deep decline over the last 5 years which has been 100% self inflicted by the chairman, yet the fans have just sat by and let him get away with it. We used to be a pro-active fan base, now we just sit on the sidelines and let him tear our club apart. God help us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeyAnty Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 Can we lock this thread? Will make me feel better, out of sight out of mind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woodytom Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 1 hour ago, avfc1982 said: Shrewd? The club is rock bottom after 5 years of austerity and incompetence and you claim he's shrewd. Poor Doug must be scratching his head. He only had to break wind and they'd be a fan protest. Lerner humiliates the club for 5 years and he's "shrewd". God help us. No I said 'most shrewd'. You're looking at it purely from a football point of view. We were talking about it from him being a businessman and he won't be losing more money now than he was when the club was haemorriging money. Should we get relegated then our losses will increase but il be amazed if they rise to a much bigger level than that when we were doing well football wise. We were 6th (big wow) so most ppl don't recognise the damage that was going on behind doors. We're not in this position because of how we've been ran the past 5 years. We're in this position because of how we were run in the first 4 years. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) 22 minutes ago, Woodytom said: ... We're not in this position because of how we've been ran the past 5 years. We're in this position because of how we were run in the first 4 years. That may well be ... but all you're effectively saying is that either he put all his eggs in one basket from the off or he got cold feet in 2010. From my perspective I'd say that whether we're talking pure football or pure business, it's the actions of the last 5 years that do not make much sense, both financially and appointments-wise. In particular, from the little I understand his family trust fund seems to play a big part in financial decisions made, and it would seem to me that it's that which is the probable main culprit if Villa do go down the pan (do they pocket TV revenues?). Aided by the fact that he seems to trust only non-football people. Was the MON experience that bad?!!! Edited November 26, 2015 by John_Lerwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post blandy Posted November 26, 2015 Moderator Popular Post Share Posted November 26, 2015 6 minutes ago, John_Lerwill said: he put all his eggs in one basket from the off or he got cold feet in 2010. Both those, pretty much. On Ellis, when he, after many years of trying, got himself into the Chairman role after we'd won the European Cup, yes there was the legacy to a degree of the North Stand and the Club was something like a million pounds in debt. So, European Champions, recent league champions and him taking over with some debt. He didn't have to take over. He din't take over for the good of the club. He took over for his own benefit and reasons and feuds. it wasn't an altruistic move. He didn't put money into the club. He then cut costs, dismantled the team that had won those trophies, sacked a good manger and appointed a succession of numpties and got the club relegated. Even with the debt, and even when a million was a bigger deal for a club, it was still a monumental set of errors, misjudgements and bad behaviours. Graham Taylor then sorted us out. Commercially Ellis was very small time. He never appointed anyone any cop at that side of it. He was always a cost cutter and never really a consistent planner for more money being raised. He got lucky twice more after GT - with the fad for TV companies buying into clubs and also with the sale of shares. two one -off injections of cash. But no underlying commercial planning of any note or effect. He failed to take advantage of either windfall, really. He caused the club to miss the boat permanently. Lerner has made quite a few mistakes on similar lines in the past few years. Of course he put money in, a lot of money, rather than took money out as Ellis did. But he's also made terrible judgements on the football side of things. He's been good on the infrastructure - appointing and trusting good people, but football wise he's just managed a decline since 2010 and not really taken any care or attention. He's been neglectful. Forced to choose between them on their records, I'd get a pistol and some brandy, I think. One neglectful and reclusive, one pompous and no more effective. I'd just about choose Lerner as the less bad, but there's not much in it. It takes some "talent" to turn an ever present Prem club, with all those resource advantages over promoted clubs into a certainty for the drop. Pair of twunts, basically. 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John_Lerwill Posted November 26, 2015 Share Posted November 26, 2015 (edited) 1 hour ago, blandy said: Both those, pretty much. On Ellis, when he, after many years of trying, got himself into the Chairman role after we'd won the European Cup, yes there was the legacy to a degree of the North Stand and the Club was something like a million pounds in debt. So, European Champions, recent league champions and him taking over with some debt. He didn't have to take over. He din't take over for the good of the club. He took over for his own benefit and reasons and feuds. it wasn't an altruistic move. He didn't put money into the club. He then cut costs, dismantled the team that had won those trophies, sacked a good manger and appointed a succession of numpties and got the club relegated. Even with the debt, and even when a million was a bigger deal for a club, it was still a monumental set of errors, misjudgements and bad behaviours. Graham Taylor then sorted us out. Commercially Ellis was very small time. He never appointed anyone any cop at that side of it. He was always a cost cutter and never really a consistent planner for more money being raised. He got lucky twice more after GT - with the fad for TV companies buying into clubs and also with the sale of shares. two one -off injections of cash. But no underlying commercial planning of any note or effect. He failed to take advantage of either windfall, really. He caused the club to miss the boat permanently. Lerner has made quite a few mistakes on similar lines in the past few years. Of course he put money in, a lot of money, rather than took money out as Ellis did. But he's also made terrible judgements on the football side of things. He's been good on the infrastructure - appointing and trusting good people, but football wise he's just managed a decline since 2010 and not really taken any care or attention. He's been neglectful. Forced to choose between them on their records, I'd get a pistol and some brandy, I think. One neglectful and reclusive, one pompous and no more effective. I'd just about choose Lerner as the less bad, but there's not much in it. It takes some "talent" to turn an ever present Prem club, with all those resource advantages over promoted clubs into a certainty for the drop. Pair of twunts, basically. Well, Pete, we all view things in different ways, and I did say Doug "had failings", and a number of those failings are some of those you have listed. However, the interesting thing is that if Doug had not made his move to takeover, what would have happened? I don't think anyone really knows the answer to that question. However, I'd disagree strongly that Lerner was good at "appointing ... good people". I'd bet there are quite a few who'd criticise his last two CEO appointments (and their various appointments, including team manager recommendations), especially as they've been visibly non-football people ... and what about the first CEO he did appoint that didn't take long in giving up after trying to convince Lerner of the way to go (if I am to read things correctly). Anyhow, this matter of the last two chairmen has been dragged through the mire without achieving much. I'd say we've been lacking good chairmen since 1925 apart from 1969 to 1982 and I frankly don't hold much hope that things will improve in that department. A fans' takeover is the only way to go for me, but the cost of doing so is so prohibitive. Perhaps we should start again ... I'll let you take the part of Ramsay, Pete! Edited November 26, 2015 by John_Lerwill Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts