Lichfield Dean Posted February 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2023 10 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: Chelsea spotted a loophole with the lengthy contracts, that loophole will be closed as a result. Disagree that there was a loophole, I don't understand why people say that. They just brought players in and gave them longer contracts than other clubs have generally given. How is that a loophole? Any club could have done that but quite rightly decided it was a stupid idea. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikeyp102 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 6 hours ago, Mic09 said: But this is not boxing. Doping is a good comparison within reason. The 'doping' organism is the club - and if Man City financially 'dope' then they destroy Everton, Man Utd, Villa, Arsenal etc. If you want to stick with boxing, Man City knock everyone out. That doesn't only mean they get to be first on MOTD - that means clubs, communities, cities, lose income. The entire football pyramid suffers. The point I was making is that doping can literally kill people. Therefore in my eyes it was worse than what city have done. In no way shape or form am I saying that what city did is right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2023 32 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: Disagree that there was a loophole, I don't understand why people say that. They just brought players in and gave them longer contracts than other clubs have generally given. How is that a loophole? Any club could have done that but quite rightly decided it was a stupid idea. It was a loophole. They gave longer contracts allowing them to spread costs over longer periods, which advantaged them in FFP. This has been addressed now with the rules stating that 5 years is the maximum you can spread costs over regardless of the actual contract length. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stewiek2 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 7 hours ago, villa89 said: I don't see the big issue with it at all to be honest. They bypassed FFP regulations to build a great team and win trophies. The FFP system is absolute rubbish of the highest order, designed to keep clubs like Man Utd., Bayern etc. at the top of European football forever. Whatever you think of city's owners they have only done good by that club and community. In my view it's completely illegal to stop an owner investing their own money into a business that they own. The Premier League should have rules that stop clubs going bankrupt not this FFP tripe that's in place now. You buy success in football, Man City, Chelsea, Newcastle are the clubs that have hit the jackpot with endless money to buy trophies with. The problem is that there were rules in place and they BROKE THE RULES and got found out. The rules all clubs have to adhere to. They broke them. The rules. The actual rules. They broke. THAT is the big issue. How effin' hard is that to understand. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 51 minutes ago, Lichfield Dean said: Disagree that there was a loophole, I don't understand why people say that. They just brought players in and gave them longer contracts than other clubs have generally given. How is that a loophole? Any club could have done that but quite rightly decided it was a stupid idea. Because the player value is amortised over the length if the contract, so their outlay is artificially reduced. On paper. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wainy316 Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 31 minutes ago, Chindie said: It was a loophole. They gave longer contracts allowing them to spread costs over longer periods, which advantaged them in FFP. This has been addressed now with the rules stating that 5 years is the maximum you can spread costs over regardless of the actual contract length. Has the time actually been changed then? And is ineffective after Chelsea’s recent spree or are they subject to it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Withnail Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 So if they have paid players/managers extra off the books will the taxman get involved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tommo_b Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, Withnail said: So if they have paid players/managers extra off the books will the taxman get involved? Good point, this could get very messy for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lichfield Dean Posted February 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2023 25 minutes ago, Mr_Dogg said: Because the player value is amortised over the length if the contract, so their outlay is artificially reduced. On paper. I know this. This isn't a loophole, it's how all player contracts work. Anyway, look, I'm not talking about how Chelsea have managed to buy lots of players (that's for the Chelsea thread), my original point was is there any possibility they got wind of the City thing and any potential rule changes and that prompted them to stockpile lots of players in advance of any such rule changes? Complete supposition on my part of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr_Dogg Posted February 8, 2023 Share Posted February 8, 2023 Just now, Lichfield Dean said: I know this. This isn't a loophole, it's how all player contracts work. Anyway, look, I'm not talking about how Chelsea have managed to buy lots of players (that's for the Chelsea thread), my original point was is there any possibility they got wind of the City thing and any potential rule changes and that prompted them to stockpile lots of players in advance of any such rule changes? Complete supposition on my part of course. The point is that Chelsea have legally (AFAWK) not broken any rules, as things stand, and will be compliant with FFP Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chindie Posted February 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2023 11 minutes ago, Wainy316 said: Has the time actually been changed then? And is ineffective after Chelsea’s recent spree or are they subject to it? UEFA are changing their FFP rules in response to it. I'm not sure they'll be able to retroactively apply it, but the doors going to shut on them doing it going forwards, which will probably put paid to them doing it anyway because the benefit will be gone. Anywho. Manc cheating bastards. That's what this is for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fightoffyour Posted February 8, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 8, 2023 It's semantics really but I agree, it wasn't a loophole to give out long contracts. There was no rule, I guess because it's been the norm to give out 4/5 year contracts max. Now with 8 year contracts things could get out of hand so a rule has been introduced. But Chelsea still have to pay, or amortise in their books, the same transfer fee over that time. And pay the players' wages no matter what happens unless they leave the club early (unlikely for most of the contract, given the wages they'll be on and transfer fees paid). That's not like anything City have been doing, which on the related point is paying out more money through third parties than they have declared in the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AshVilla Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 If Man City get knocked out the prem it means everyone will have to captain someone other than Haaland every week in the FPL. It will feel like a brand new game completely reinvigorated. Make it happen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post HanoiVillan Posted February 9, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted February 9, 2023 8 hours ago, villa89 said: It shouldn't seem like that, they'll be fined or have an transfer embargo or both or suffer a points deduction next season and that's fair enough. But the level of outrage is something like you'd expect if they were found to have bribed refs or bought off opposition players. I don't think its as severe an infringement as people are making out. It's way worse than that though. If I bribe the ref for our next match, it will make a maximum of 3 points' difference. Their cheating has benefitted them over more than 500 league games, not to mention all the domestic cup games as well. Calciopoli was about two seasons; this is about more than a decade. 6 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNVillan Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 10 hours ago, villa89 said: But the level of outrage is something like you'd expect if they were found to have bribed refs or bought off opposition players. I don't think it’s as severe an infringement as people are making out. They used money to illegally affect the outcome of matches, and essentially the league. So I’m not so sure it’s as far away from match fixing as you’re thinking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
villa4europe Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 The level of outrage is a reflection of where people are at with Man City and FFP in general, they've been a nail in the coffin for the PL so of course people want to see them knocked down a fair few pegs, unfortunately it'll probably mean one of the other five step up and fill the void but at the moment it's hard not to see this as good for everyone else Which is why the punishment will be interesting, it will be a reflection of the other 19 clubs opinion on FFP and understandably will come with a few of them wanting a huge punishment The impunity of the eventual punishment will be another nail in the coffin, we're at the same precipice as the ESL and I'm expecting a similar level of punishment and there's another nail in the coffin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnkarl Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 So in the last day I've read the folllowing arguments from the lovely space that is the bluemoon forum. This is a big conspiracy like the one that took down Trump and Boris, the big global pharma vaccine producing elites hate City and so wanted to take them apart. Everyone cheats, Liverpool and Manchester United have done exactly what we have done since forever. George Soros is the reason why it's all gone tits up, if he hadn't tipped off the PL none of this would have happened. Q has foreseen this event and tried to warn us. Everyone is jealous at City's titles - even though they've apparently been won illegally. We should have stayed in the Superleague, the other big clubs are just doing this so we don't get in. We'll kick the teeth of anyone hinting at our cheating in, make the atmosphere so bad that no one wants to charge us. Good bunch of people. Top notch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turnbull Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 43 minutes ago, magnkarl said: So in the last day I've read the folllowing arguments from the lovely space that is the bluemoon forum. This is a big conspiracy like the one that took down Trump and Boris, the big global pharma vaccine producing elites hate City and so wanted to take them apart. Everyone cheats, Liverpool and Manchester United have done exactly what we have done since forever. George Soros is the reason why it's all gone tits up, if he hadn't tipped off the PL none of this would have happened. Q has foreseen this event and tried to warn us. Everyone is jealous at City's titles - even though they've apparently been won illegally. We should have stayed in the Superleague, the other big clubs are just doing this so we don't get in. We'll kick the teeth of anyone hinting at our cheating in, make the atmosphere so bad that no one wants to charge us. Good bunch of people. Top notch. Rearrange this popular phrase. Tools in the box not the sharpest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HKP90 Posted February 9, 2023 VT Supporter Share Posted February 9, 2023 My only real interaction with City fans was when I stopped at a service station on the M5 during a family trip. A bunch of City coaches had stopped there, presumably they'd been playing somewhere down south. I couldn't use the baby change for my youngest son as there was a City fan shooting up in there (we found the needle in there after we waited for him to come out). I also had to explain to my eldest why people were running around shouting obscenities at full volume (the worst ones) and threatening to assault the staff of the place. Real salt of the earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vive_La_Villa Posted February 9, 2023 Share Posted February 9, 2023 3 minutes ago, HKP90 said: My only real interaction with City fans was when I stopped at a service station on the M5 during a family trip. A bunch of City coaches had stopped there, presumably they'd been playing somewhere down south. I couldn't use the baby change for my youngest son as there was a City fan shooting up in there (we found the needle in there after we waited for him to come out). I also had to explain to my eldest why people were running around shouting obscenities at full volume (the worst ones) and threatening to assault the staff of the place. Real salt of the earth. To be fair it’s probably just a bad bunch. We all know Villa have their fair share too. My only interaction was with a family on the train from Uxbridge to Wembley. They were lovely to chat too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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